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Propane tank refill

Started by Jim_Rogers, March 03, 2016, 12:09:09 PM

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Jim_Rogers

I have been using my portable propane heater at the weekend workshops we've been having.
Early this past Saturday the flame went out. I lifted the tank and could tell it was empty.

I took it down to the local hardware store near the site to get it refilled. They had a good price for my area of $13 and change.

He asked me if I knew the date of the tank, and or if it had expired.

I told him I didn't know about any tank dates.

We walked outside to view my tank. And sure enough it had expired back in July of 14. So he wouldn't fill my tank. It seems that tank dates are only good for 12 years.
He had new tanks there for $34 and change. I didn't ask if that included gas or not. I assumed not. And I didn't have the cash for a new tank and gas.

I asked him if he knew of another place nearby that had one of the "exchange" programs. He sent me to the local gas station. This area is some 40 miles from my sawmill yard.

At the local gas station I asked about the exchange program. And they said it was $24 and change. I asked him if they cared about the date of my tank. They said no.

So, I got a new tank. I figured I was getting a tank of gas and a new tank for $10 more.

I took it back to the job site and hooked it up and started it up.

It ran about three hours or less and the flame stopped again. I restarted it but it didn't run for very long. When I picked it up it felt very light. And I assumed it was out of gas. But I wasn't sure.

I know it ran out of gas as I took it yesterday to be refilled and he said that normally they put in between 4 and 4 1/2 gallons of gas. Mine took 4 gallons, so in his opinion my tank was empty.

The exchange program is ok but they don't give you much gas.

I had never heard of tanks expiring, until this happened to me.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

47sawdust

Jim,
Here in Vermont that has been the policy for close to 15 years.They used to just change the valve but not anymore,you have to buy a new tank.It's just something to get used to,at first it's a surprise, but anything to keep the place from going BOOM is worth the expense.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

easymoney

i have heard of welding gas companies questioning the age of the tanks. here they always exchange welding gas tanks so the age does not seem to matter. the people i deal with always puts a gauge on the tank and checks if it is full before they give it to you. i have gotten tanks with very little gas in them before they started checking them.
a few years ago i had a 100 pound propane tank tank filled at a local supplier. i had hauled it in a van. he said i cant let you carry it away in that van it has to be standing up secured  in a pickup. i waited until he went inside the building. i loaded up my tank and left. i felt like i was stealing my own tank.so much for the rules.

dustyhat

Some tractor supply co. offer exchanges on propane and welding gases . might check it out . my welding and cutting bottles are cheaper there. as for the bottle age its the law in most places . better safe than sorry.

Magicman

Jim, it sounds like you got someone's "empty".  Normally those exchange tanks are full.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Gary_C

Quote from: Magicman on March 03, 2016, 01:25:36 PM
Normally those exchange tanks are full.

There is a growing problem with those exchange tanks being under filled. There is no good way for a consumer to tell if it's full short of carrying your own scale.

If you suspect the exchange tank is light, look for the empty weight stamped on the tank and add the weight for the size of the tank, normally 20 lbs for the small tanks. You can ask for the tank to be weighed but you may or may get what you ask for. If they refuse, just walk away. If you walk away with the tank and then come back and complain, it's too late.

At today's prices, there is less than $4.00 worth of propane in those 20 lb tanks. Anything you pay over that is profit.

And yes, the DOT says those tanks have to be transported upright and secured in the vehicle when transporting.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Jeff

Currently here, you can get an empty tank filled at the Amish store for $8.00. They are the only place that weighs the tank first, and only charges you for the gas they put in, not by the tank. I can go there with a tank that is not completely empty and get a fair charge to have it topped off.  Never had any question about a date. Not sure if that is law here or not.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

breederman

The date is stamped on the handle , they can be re certified , I have one here that has been re certified and so it has 2 dates stamped on it . I have to show some of the fillers the newest date as it is not as obvious as the older one .
Together we got this !

Jim_Rogers

The one I have now has two dates.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

gspren

   A few years ago Rhino and some other exchange tanks started putting 15Lbs in 20Lb bottles and in small print on the paper label it states 15lb so it's legal. This winter I also had a place not fill one because it was out of date so I just took it to another place that doesn't look.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

chet

NFPA standards as I understand them:
Cylinders are subject to recertification (also known as requalification) twelve years from their date of manufacture and every five years after that. For example, a cylinder manufactured in January of 2000 will have to be recertified in January of 2012 meaning if you take your bottle to the propane company in April of 2012 to be refilled, it will have to be recertified  by authorized personnel before it can be filled. That's why Jim's last tank had two dates, the original date stamp and the recertification date.
This is the national standard, State standards may vary.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

chet

One of our local suppliers recently payed a fine in Wisconsin for under filling exchange tanks.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Ljohnsaw

I had some old tanks a while ago that had the old valves.  The place I refill (only pay for what goes in the tank - rates vary drastically through the year) did a swap on the valves at that time.  I pick up free tanks all the time off of CragsList all the time - now I have 9 - the last two were nearly full 8)  Most are old.  My place does not do exchange so I take them to HD for a swap and talk with the guy so I can get a "fresh" tank that has quite a few years left on it.  The tanks are light. :-\  I had a great looking tank that I took to a place far from my home that runs a special on Fridays - 99 cents a gallon.  Turns out the tank was expired.  I could have exchanged the tank for something like $17 or 18 but decided to re-cert (a sticker) for $8 and fill for $4.50.  The "5 gallon" tanks will vent at a max of 4.7 gallons (so I was told) because of the new valves.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

WV Sawmiller

   I knew from my scuba classes an eternity ago that all pressurized cylinders had to be inspected I think every 5 years by DOT regs. I did not know/remember there was a limit but it makes sense because of metal fatigue.

   I need to get my boat out and see what high water left us. Two years ago I was out salvaging treated lumber from upstream floods and my son came with me. He got 2 - 80 lb and one 40 lb propane tank. One of the 80's was brand new with a Lowes price tag of $79.95 on it and was full. He is still using it on his BBQ. I forget how much gas was in the others. I had seen them in earlier rounds but ignored them not realizing what they were or their value.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

AfraidChocker

Swap out propane tanks are kind of a rip off. Here they fill a 20 pound tank with 15 pounds, but you can fill the tanks at a local supplier and get much better bang for your buck. The problem is they get all the odd-ball tanks that are out of date and someone has to pay for all those costs.

All tanks are certified so while you can save money by buying even your big tanks, that may not be worth it. I use a 500 gallon provided by my propane supplier for heat for my house for this reason. Re-certifying tanks of that capacity is a pain.
As a sheep farmer, I have no intentions of arriving at the pearly gates in a well preserved body, rather I am going to slide into heaven sideways with my Kubota tractor, kick the manure out of my muck boots, and loudly proclaim, "Whoo Hoo, another Sheppard has just arrived!"

bill m

A class action lawsuit was filed against Blue Rhino for under filling propane tanks and not stating that fact on the label or in their advertising. The courts approved a 25 million dollar settlement in 2012. All their advertising now say "exchange" (not refill which implies the tank was refilled to capacity).
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

martyinmi

I refill my own tanks. 8)
The farmer across the section has a couple 500 gallon tanks for his dryer setup, and he has tapped into one of them with a hose and the proper fitting to fill 20 lb. tanks.
I have two 20 lb. tanks for my pickup camper, two for the grills, and two 30 lb.(I think they are 30 anyway?) for our old Corsair bumper camper. The tanks for my pickup camper are horizontal, from the 70's, very expensive to replace, and no one will fill them for me anymore .
Whenever I have 2 or 3 that need filling, I take them to work and head across the section at lunch break. I leave him a 30 pack of Busch Lite and he's happy. Having him around saves me a few headaches every year.
I take it a step farther and fill my own hand held propane tanks from the 20 pounders. I bought the adapter from Harbor Freight.
I can only get those about 2/3rds full, but I'm ok with that. I usually keep 3 or 4 of them floating around.
My Lehr weed wacker runs on propane, so I go through a half dozen or so every year.
In case anyone is wondering, Lehr propane weed wackers are gutless! smiley_thumbsdown



No God, No Peace
Know God, Know Peace!

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: bill m on March 03, 2016, 07:30:20 PM
A class action lawsuit was filed against Blue Rhino for under filling propane tanks and not stating that fact on the label or in their advertising. The courts approved a 25 million dollar settlement in 2012. All their advertising now say "exchange" (not refill which implies the tank was refilled to capacity).
:(  I didn't see any of that 25 mil...
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

21incher

I had a tank like that a couple years ago that BJ's would not fill. I did a Blue Rhino exchange  and the tank I got was 10 years older then the one I traded in and it was not recertified ( That was the newest tank of the batch ) I emailed Blue Rhino to see if they knew the law and was told don't worry about it, it was safe and just keep using Blue Rhino for exchanges. I guess they do that to keep you coming back. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

WH_Conley

martyinmi, get the hose from sporting goods that has the small tank on each end. One Male one Female. When filling the small tank drop it in a bucket of water and just crack the valve. Fill it slowly. I used to fill our portable Oxygen tanks for the Ambulance from large tanks. Fill it fast and pressure drops when it cools down. Slow and cool will get them fuller.
Bill

jmouton

  i go through alot of tanks of various gases in a year ,  i know propane is 5 years from date on tank, the other tanks i own ,  i am on an exchange program with my local welding shop and i always get up to date tanks,  but its every 10 years  on any welding tanks,  oxy act , etc ,   thats here in michigan ,   and if you haul more than a 1000 pounds of tanks ,you have to have a cdl with a hazmat endorsement , in mich ,  probably nation wide,


                                                                                                   jim
lt-40 wide ,,bobcat,sterling tandem flatbed log truck,10 ton trailer, stihl 075,041,029,066,and a 2017 f-350,oh and an edger

justallan1

Although things may have changed, the last I new you didn't have to have anything bigger than a 40 lb bottle hydrotested because they called them permanent tanks. I've had a 100 lb bottle for my 5th wheel for 15 years and have never been asked about a date.

I use to fill all of my own little camp size tanks and Co2 tanks and I found the best way was to throw the empties in the freezer to cool them off first, put the tanks that you are filling out of in a warm place, after awhile hook them up and turn the tank you are filling out of upside down so you are filling your bottle with liquid rather than gas. If you try to fill a tank that is warm you turn your liquid into gas and won't get a good fill without a pump.

Kbeitz

My weld tanks get a date stamped on them with a moon or a five-point star after the date.
I was told the star is good for 5 years and the moon 10 years.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

DelawhereJoe

I used to work for the local company that filled blue rhino tanks here in Delaware. They can only be filled to 80% capacity anyway due to expansion of the gas to keep them "safe". They would fill around 1000 cans an hour when everything was running smoothly. They would also fill papco 20 lb tanks and ship them out on 18 wheelers, was told that some of the filled tanks make there way up to Canada. I have a 500 gal tank in the ground at my house and they will only fill to 80% so it only holds 400 gal when full.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

DelawhereJoe

Also the old brass valves would be scrapped out for about $1000 per 55gal drum, old tanks would be sold off for scrap to a place in PA. I want to say a 53' trailer full of cans would bring around $2000, so even the bosses trash was making him money.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Kbeitz

Thought you all would like this one...
No inspection laws in Dominican Republic.
No transportation laws ether.
I watched all day cycles pulling into a refill station getting tanks filled.



 



 


Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DelawhereJoe

Thinking more about it when I left working for them they would only fill the tanks with 17lbs, according to them "the tanks are safer with 17 lbs then with 20 lbs". 20 lbs holds like 4.3 gal at 17 its around 3.7 gal. I'm sure it saved a butt load of money too.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Engineer

I used to get propane tanks refilled at the local welding place and also a gas station that had a propane fill.  After running out of gas far too many times on a Sunday afternoon or early evening, I decided to just swap out tanks at the Home Depot (Blue Rhino).  They don't care how old the tank is. 

However, I managed to get my hands on a couple of nearly brand-new tanks through the Blue Rhino exchange, so I decided to keep them instead of exchange them, and have them filled again by the local suppliers.  As long as I have 3-4 tanks around, I won't run out so I can take them in to have them filled when they are open.  I'm going to keep swapping the last two I have until I get a date stamp within the past year or so, and then I'll hang on to them.

Also true that the exchange cylinders do not have 20lb in them - it's either 17 or 18 depending on where you get them.  The local suppliers will fill you up with a full 20lb.

Supposedly there's a way to refill the small green propane cylinders for camp stoves and the like, but I am not sure where I saw that to be a good idea.  The local transfer station has a shelf full of little green cylinders.  I'm tempted to take a bunch home and use them for long-distance rifle targets.   :o ;D

gspren

   Just yesterday I saw exchange tanks, "Ameri tank" or something like that, for $22.98 and the label says 15Lb. There are local places to fill one for $8.00, it usually doesn't pay to exchange.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Brucer

In BC it's illegal to fill a tank that's beyond it's expiry date. Service station attendants have to take a training course and pass an exam before they can refill tanks. They're also trained to look for flaws in the tanks (leaky or corroded valves, excessive corrosion on the tank) and can refuse to fill a tank that they consider unsafe. Tanks that are in good condition can be recertified.

The local service station refills them and charges by weight, so you know you're getting your money's worth.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Kbeitz

Quote from: Engineer on March 05, 2016, 07:24:42 PM
Supposedly there's a way to refill the small green propane cylinders for camp stoves and the like, but I am not sure where I saw that to be a good idea.  The local transfer station has a shelf full of little green cylinders.  I'm tempted to take a bunch home and use them for long-distance rifle targets.   :o ;D

I fill the small green propane cylinders all the time. You just need one of these.



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

goose63

Engineer I shot one of those little green bottles at 100 yards and all most got hit with it when it came straight back at me
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: goose63 on March 06, 2016, 07:37:49 AM
Engineer I shot one of those little green bottles at 100 yards and all most got hit with it when it came straight back at me

Goose,

   One of my many imprudent acts in my youth was to also shoot one of those little cylinders. Was in a trash dump on an old logging road where I went squirrel hunting. Set the cylinder up and stepped back about 25 yards and shot it with a .22 rifle. The cylinder spun around 3-4 times then hit a rut and headed straight for me. I took off running imagining it was going to run up to me and explode. Fortunately it just fizzled out and stopped. I have not shot any more.

   Also if you get pithed off at a pair of cheap slip joint pliers it is not wise to shoot the bolt head off. I'm still picking shrapnel off that one and it was over 45 years ago.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

I hope neither of you ever get mad at me 'cause you kill your enemies.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

gspren

  I have shot empty 16oz bottles with a 22 and they just fall over with a little hole in them. I do that before putting in the trash.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

21incher

Quote from: Kbeitz on March 06, 2016, 06:39:13 AM
Quote from: Engineer on March 05, 2016, 07:24:42 PM
Supposedly there's a way to refill the small green propane cylinders for camp stoves and the like, but I am not sure where I saw that to be a good idea.  The local transfer station has a shelf full of little green cylinders.  I'm tempted to take a bunch home and use them for long-distance rifle targets.   :o ;D

I fill the small green propane cylinders all the time. You just need one of these.



 
I bought some refillable 1 lb tanks years ago. They are a little heavier then the disposable ones and have a bleeder valve so you know when they are full, and legal to transport after refilling.There are also legal to transport refillable 1 lb cylinders available now that I think are made for the new propane powered lawn equipment. Search propane-refill.com. they have info on one they make.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

WV Sawmiller

Quote from: Magicman on March 06, 2016, 08:06:33 AM
I hope neither of you ever get mad at me 'cause you kill your enemies.   :D

MM,

   We are no doubt our own worst enemies. I can certainly certify I have done more harm to myself than anyone else ever has (although in several areas of the world where I worked they tried pretty hard).
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Kbeitz

I took my 35mm cannon to a cannon shootout. They drove a car out into the middle of a large feild
and stacked 100 20lb propane tanks around and on top of the car. I got to fire the first shot...
After the first explosion the tanks pretty much left the area, This is what was left of the car that
was running when they drove it in. My cannon is in the first picture.



 



 



 



Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Al_Smith

I had 6 or 8  20 pound tanks with the old style valves given to me .Some had gas in them .I used up the gas and pedaled them off at various exchange places .They never even looked at the date or the valves .

Profane ,er propane gas makes a pretty good source of heat for a gas grill but it's lousy stuff to run an engine with .No power .

Some people use it to run a cutting torch with too .It's not worth a hoot for that either ,cheaper than acetylene though .< dang the price on that stuff is outta sight . >:(

Kbeitz

I have a very large cutting torch thats set up for Propane.
With the right Propane tip I think it works fine.
With out the rght tip it is lousy.
Maybe not as hot as acetylene but I made up for that with a bigger torch.
Our local junkyard only uses Proplane for cutting.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Stuart Caruk

I have a CNC cutting machine that cuts with gas or Plasma. I started out years ago cutting with Acetylene and Oxygen for thicker plate. Several years ago I switched to Propane and Oxygen. I'd have used natural gas, but it's not available. Propane is waaaaaaaaaay cheaper to cut with, and requires a 2 piece tip. Though propane has fewer BTU's than Acetylene, they dump way more fuel gas out the tip. Bottom line is that my cut costs are about 20% of what they used to be and I have no problems routinely cutting up to 6" thick plate.

My hand torch on a cart still uses Acetylene though because it's less likely to pop out in the cut. My hand just isn't nearly as steady as my CNC machine.
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Al_Smith

An industrial environment is entirely different than a guy tinkering around in a home shop .For that matter I've worked on a huge propane set up used to cut plate for the M1 Abrams battle tank .Now that's the major leagues.

A scrapper or something of that nature a good smooth burn is not a big deal. To me it's just a personal preference .I've got three sets of tanks ,no profane(sic) or MAPP either .Then again two gas grills so I still have to buy the stuff on occasion

thecfarm

One idea,if you have propane at your house, put a tee in and put a line for the grill. Won't have to bother with the tanks that way.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Logger RK

Does anyone know if I can fill my small,I think they call them suitcase size Acetylene tank,from my larger Acetylene tank,think 100lb.I should have the right fittings,but wondering if they use some kind of regulator or something? Getting the small tanks refilled are almost as much as the larger ones. But don't want to get blown up either ::)

goose63

Quote from: gspren on March 06, 2016, 08:55:52 AM
  I have shot empty 16oz bottles with a 22 and they just fall over with a little hole in them. I do that before putting in the trash.

Not when thy are half full :o
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: logger RK on March 07, 2016, 06:24:15 AM
Does anyone know if I can fill my small,I think they call them suitcase size Acetylene tank,from my larger Acetylene tank,think 100lb.I should have the right fittings,but wondering if they use some kind of regulator or something? Getting the small tanks refilled are almost as much as the larger ones. But don't want to get blown up either ::)

Unless you have a death wish, don't attempt it.  Even the experts make mistakes!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

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