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Down in the Dumps with my Kohler Engine / Not fixed / FIXED!

Started by POSTON WIDEHEAD, March 02, 2016, 07:16:02 PM

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POSTON WIDEHEAD

I am about to pull my hair out over my Kohler engine.
It got to skipping and losing power about 3-4 weeks ago.
It would crank and idle perfect. Engage the blade and it would die.

The engine has 1100 hours on it.
Never been in the rain.

Things I have done:

I have had discussions with Woodmizer Indy, Albemarle, N.C. and Kohler.
I have tried everything we discussed.

1. Brand new gas tank installed.
2. Brand new male and female connections from mill to gas tank
3. Brand new fuel lines throughout and new clamps
4. Brand new fuel filters from Kohler
5. Brand new fuel pump from Kohler
6. Brand new spark plugs recommended by Kohler and Woodmizer
7. Brand new plug wires
8. Brand new 02 Censor
9. Brand new Non-ethanol gas
10. Ran Sea-Foam through engine
11. Brand New Inner and outer air filters.

Now the engine runs 98% perfect.

As it stands now.....it cranks perfect and idles perfect.
I can engage the clutch and NO power lost.....acts just like a new engine.

NOW.....when the engine is running and the blade is engaged and its at full RPM's you would think it is perfect.
However, when I hydraulic the back stops up......the engine starts to sputter and finally begins to run right.
When I engage the blade, a puff of smoke comes out and I can smell gas in that puff of smoke....it then goes away.

The engine a 29hp (printed on engine) which legally is now defined as a 26hp.
It is EFI.

I am NOT losing any production cutting wood.....it saws fine.
Sometime when the blade enters a log, it will sputter a little.

This problem is driving me bonkers!

I thought I would check with you guys before pulling the engine and taking it to Kohler in Charlotte, N.C.


The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Ohio_Bill

Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

sandsawmill14

i dont know but i would bet if you take the engine off and take it to them it will run perfect while they check and tell you the engine is fine >:( at least thats the luck i have :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

sawguy21

I would run it with an inline spark tester on each plug. If the spark is steady as the engine falters look for debris in the carburetor high speed circuit, it comes into play when load is applied and the throttle is wide open.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

drobertson

Seems like you covered the bases,  not sure, but I have a smaller hp on the mower, and was told that Kohler changed the specs on an orfice within the carb due to epa stuff, mine still sputters, the other thing although you did change wires and sensor, this seems the only electrical you addressed, could the voltage be breaking down while loaded and or could it be the mechanical governor? It seems it only happens while under a load,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Ohio_Bill on March 02, 2016, 07:23:03 PM
Air Filter  ?  Maybe

Yes....BRAND NEW Kohler air filter. Inner and outer.

The engine is EFI. No carburetor.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

StimW

I would check valve clearance and make sure the rockers are lifting high enough.
It would not be the first camshaft with lob worn off.
Also could be ignition breaking down hence the fuel smell. Might try a new coil or two and keep old one for spare if that's not it.
New HF Band Mill
Branson 35 hp 4 WD Diesel Tractor W/Attachments- Backhoe, FEL W/ Bucket or Forks, 4' Tiller
4000# Clark Forklift W/24" Tires
Promark 6" Brush chipper W/18 hp Kohler

starmac

Odd that the hydraulic backstops will cause it, that would or should be just a small load from the alt. Almost seems like something electrical is going on.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: starmac on March 02, 2016, 07:51:18 PM
Odd that the hydraulic backstops will cause it, that would or should be just a small load from the alt. Almost seems like something electrical is going on.

This is what we have been talking about since replacing the other parts.  I checked the alt. and battery with the meter everything is fine when the engine is at idle and when the blade is running. However, I cannot check it when I raise the backstops.....not enough hands. I may pull the alt. and take it and get it checked out at the shop so they can load it up.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

hamish

Is the MIL on? (malfunction indicator light).  If so pull the code and unveil the gremlin causing your problems.


Also check for a vacuum leak usually on the intake, verify your governor settings, and check your throttle position sensor.

Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: hamish on March 02, 2016, 08:00:37 PM
Is the MIL on? (malfunction indicator light).  If so pull the code and unveil the gremlin causing your problems.


Also check for a vacuum leak usually on the intake, verify your governor settings, and check your throttle position sensor.

The code light does not work at all. I told WM about it and they didn't say anything.
I went through turning the key on and off 3 times as the book said....it doesn't work. Its like it never was hooked up.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

hamish

So most likely the MIL was optional (the engine spec number can confirm this), and why any manufacturer (Woodmizer in this case) would not automatically include it is beyond me. 

Stop chasing your tail (goats have tails too!), pull the motor and have a Kohler dealer pull the codes.

Guessinosis is a terrible way to troubleshoot things.
Norwood ML26, Jonsered 2152, Husqvarna 353, 346,555,372,576

Jim_Wahl

There was a TSB out about those engines having inadequate grounding a few years ago. Kohler should be able to tell you about it.
1997 Peterson 9" WPF since 1998
2004 Baker 3667D since 2014
Cooks Catclaw sharpener and setter



I am from Iowa, but I seem fine.

Ox

It's sounding like you have an intermittent engine control problem.  There must be a "brain" somewhere (PCM - power control module), this being an EFI engine.  I'm guessing this is the culprit.  You've covered all the other problem areas.  Your problem is likely in the circuit board of the PCM.  A new one will probably fix your problem.  Whenever I ran into these types of problems on vehicles and there are no codes thrown but still has a slight problem running, a new PCM always solved these annoying little problems.

One question: is this engine built with adjustable valvetrain or is it hydraulic lifters and requires no valve adjustment?  Just curious...for future reference for myself.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Ox on March 02, 2016, 08:21:31 PM


One question: is this engine built with adjustable valvetrain or is it hydraulic lifters and requires no valve adjustment?  Just curious...for future reference for myself.

I truly have no earthly idea.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

KirkD

Sounds like ignition but don't rule out exhaust. It could have broke something in the muffler that is restricting it. I chased my tail (which I don't have) for a long time once on a muffler that had been plugged by mice filling it with oats for the winter. Hold your hand over the end and feel the pressure difference while you put under a load.
Wood-mizer LT40HD-G24 Year 1989

ncsawyer

My guess would be something in the "brain".  Too bad the check engine light doesn't work, that would probably help immensely.

It seems like everything now is has a computer involved.  My old mill had a 18HP Briggs.  Over 2,000 hours and I never did a thing except change the oil and air filter.  I don't think I ever even changed a spark plug.   
2015 Wood-Mizer LT40DD35
Woodmaster 718 planer
Ford 445 Skip Loader

OffGrid973

I know you said no carb but I had this issue I couldn't figure out with my snowblower this year and the culprit was related to air intake screw (3:20 into video), not sure if this concept exists on your engine but figured it couldn't hurt to share at the point.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jKl_5EOt1bQ
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

Sixacresand

I don't know either, but since you have not mentioned it, maybe the fuel injectors are worn, since they are electo/mechanical devices. If the ports have worn and become enlarged, it might be allowing excess gas to be injected (black smoke) under load.  I have same engine but no where near 1100 hours, so I will be taking notes so when mine starts acting up.
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

pineywoods

Dave, there is an engine control module under a cover on the outboard side of the motor. right behind the non-functional status light. It definitely contains a micro-processor (computer).  Computers don't like spikes and dips in the power supply. If actuating the hydraulics for the backstop causes the problem, what about the loader or toe rollers ? Chances are, there's nothing wrong with your motor, arcing and sparking somewhere else causing voltage fluctuations in the 12 volt  electrical supply causing the control computer to go bonkers.. OH and for what it's worth, the last one of these I wrenched on, the bulb in the status light was burned out...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

AnthonyW

1100 hours. Have you tried a compression test to check the cylinder and valves?
'97 Wood-Mizer LT25 All Manual with 15HP Kohler

Magicman

It should not matter which hydraulic operation you are doing.  Other than loading a log, the amperage should be about the same.  Use a digital voltmeter and read the alternator output.  It should be over 14 volts.  What is the reading with the hydraulics operating?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Sixacresand on March 02, 2016, 09:15:41 PM
If the ports have worn and become enlarged, it might be allowing excess gas to be injected (black smoke) under load. 

The puff of smoke only comes when I engage the blade. After that, no more puffs.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: pineywoods on March 02, 2016, 09:30:47 PM
the bulb in the status light was burned out...

Now this is a thought. Thanks.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

tjhammer

when it  misses is it one bank or both you could have a weak coil, does yours have a coil for each bank tj
hammer

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