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Valve bank... what happened?

Started by timberlinetree, March 01, 2016, 05:48:12 AM

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timberlinetree

It was really cold and the leaver got sticky and then stuck. It wouldn't  release  until I  killed the engine.  50 degrees and still sticking ruled out ice. Brought it to the shop and the spool is bent? The fluid looked good to. What would cause this?

  

 
The worst part about removing this was going to the store all dirty and asking for a pen,rubber bands and baggies. The lady looked at me like I  was up to something.
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Logger RK

I'm not sure what would've bent the spool yet,but that picture reminds of when my Son took his valve bank off his Hahn Harvester & marked all the hose/ports. But putting back together had forgot to mark which side was number 1 8)

Farmerjw

Besides marking it, you did an excellent thing by taking a picture of it! 
Premier Bovine Scatologist

kiko

I use colored zip ties to mark hose location

bushmechanic

I bought a letter and number stamp set that I use because sometimes there are manifolds or valves with wicked amounts of hoses, and when stamped you can't wipe or tear the marks off.

tacks Y

Maybe dirt or metal filling stuck in the small groves of spool?

oldseabee

Was the valve mounted with 4 bolts or 3? 4 bolt mount can put the valve in a bind by tying the valve to any twisting of the frame mount. best way to mount the valve is to find the three mounting points that contact the frame firmly then leave the 4th bolt or nut off or at least loose.
The other thing is the through bolts holding the valve sections together have to be torqued the same or the valve body can warp over time, then extreme cold can tighten up tolerances to the point of interference can put a spool in a bind.

47sawdust

Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

timberlinetree

Thank you sir! That makes sense. Only two bolts out of three were in there and was thinking I need another. With the heavy rain and then sub zero temps water might have gotten under it and froze causing it to bend. It is fixed and installing to day 8)
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AlexHart

I was just browsing the forum, clicked on this thread and then winced when I saw I recognized who and what I was looking at.

I hope its not a big deal and turns out OK but remember if I didn't give it to you (I think I did) I've got a whole entire parts valve bank... but I think I gave it to you.   Whatever broke you should be able to swap in a new section as a reasonable worst case.   

Good luck on it.  Let us know how you make out.

Alex 

timberlinetree

Hi Alex, the forwarder has been great! We cant thank you enuff!We brought him the valves but they didn't fit but he fixed it. Hope you and  Jenny and the gang are doing well!
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timberlinetree

 

  this is the valve gang that is giving use trouble. Some how the problem keeps coming back. This has got me stumped!

1 after heavy rain and real cold weather the swing valve started getting sticky, then stuck. Brought to shop,bent spool,fixed.

2 installed, was working fine ( not under pressure),started motor and got stuck within seconds. Back at shop,bent spool,used parts valve assemblely with driffrent spool, working again.

3 installed, moved two loads and stuck again?not shure if bent,but feels like it.

The fluid looks good
Found a pinched hose for that valve
Only have it bolted down w 2 bolts.

It was fine until that first day,could a pinched hose cause enough pressure to bend a spool or are the cylinders causing problems?any one else have  this problem.Any help would be REALLY appreciated!
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snowstorm

you cant swap spools from different valve sections. they are a matched fit. is the oil hot or cold when this happens? how dose the sealing surface of the spool look? the bore of the valve section? any pitting??

timberlinetree

We used spare valve/spool assembly. It looked fine and worked good for 2 loads and was hot when stuck again. Going to ck filter( cut open if it has that type) but seems some how this spool valve keeps getting bent
Could 3000 psi bend a spool? Thought a hose would blow instead? Thanks
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oldseabee

Usually a swing circuit will have a cushion valve in each each direction some where, the purpose is absorb the shock load when the swing comes to a sudden stop, if one of them isn't working right that shock can go to the valve section, there should be port reliefs in the valve section but may not be big enough to take the full shock of a swing sudden stop with a load.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: oldseabee on March 24, 2016, 10:42:08 AM
Usually a swing circuit will have a cushion valve in each each direction some where, the purpose is absorb the shock load when the swing comes to a sudden stop, if one of them isn't working right that shock can go to the valve section, there should be port reliefs in the valve section but may not be big enough to take the full shock of a swing sudden stop with a load.

That makes sense - which valve is getting damaged?  On my little backhoe, the swing cylinders have little pop-off relief valves that are set to about 1,500psi.  I thought that was quite low but now I understand.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

oldseabee

The cushion valves can be mounted anywhere but quite often the will be built into the base of the swing cylinders so the shock oil goes to the other end of the cylinder and never gets to the main valve

Ljohnsaw

John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

timberlinetree

We tore it apart and found these jamed in between the ports. Must have been missed while rebuilding. My have been why this valve was put on the shelf to begin with. 

   I plan on changing the hose from the pump to valve since its a little worn and not sure if more pics are inside. I could not find a cartridge filter,but think one might be in the tank. 

  I will service that and new fluid. Are filters in tanks? Is there a way to check the swing cylinders load pressure? The first time this happened the spool was bent? Thank you for the help.
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OntarioAl

Timberlinetree
You are going to have to play Sherlock Holmes and find out where that metal came from that jammed the spool.
Al
Al Raman

timberlinetree

Thank you sir. I'm thinking that it must have been from a previous pump problem? I'm going to replace the pump to value hose because it shows wear and may have some pics in there. I was thinking about adding a filter cartridge also. Any other ideas/ precautions I should take? Thanks
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OntarioAl

Timberlinetree
That shrapnel may have been carried into the valve bank from one of your swing cylinders.
My reason for throwing this out for your consideration is that you indicated that this valve was the only one giving you problems.
Al
Al Raman

Logger RK

Last winter my Sons Hahn bucket cyl piston went out. Some of the pieces did get stuck in the valve. Cleaned it out and put new piston and seals. Hasn't been a problem since.

RHP Logging

That looks a lot like my franklin.  If it is the filter is in the tank.  Also maybe your pump is coming apart and it pushed the shrapnel up into the valve bank.  Usually its fine metal, but who knows?  May be worth a look.
Buckin in the woods

timberlinetree

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