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Author Topic: Swing video  (Read 2790 times)

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Offline CCC4

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Swing video
« on: February 23, 2016, 09:51:03 pm »
I set this pine up as a swing shot in order to prevent it from going off the bluff. I remember a thread last year where swing technique where questioned. I believe there is always room to use a good swing cut especially when cutting along a bluff where the tree could shoot out of reach from a cable. Thank you for viewing as always!  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOTMAWyGJfs&feature=youtu.be

Offline Plankton

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 08:37:51 am »
Nice cutting

Do you have a stump photo or description of what you did there?

Offline CCC4

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 09:16:15 am »
Thank you! I don't have a pic of that particular stump, but I can look and see if I have one of the same came cut. What I did is essentially remove some of the compression wood (which was weighted toward the bluff edge), then came around to my desired landing zone which was 90* to the opposite of where the tree naturally wanted to go and threw in a thin Humbolt face kerfing back to 50%. I then started at the compression corner removing more of the compression wood and using my "turn corner" to bring the tree around to the face and letting her go when she arrived.

I hope that makes sense. Thank you for asking  :)

Offline grassfed

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 09:42:18 am »
I'm not trying to be personally critical of you but for the sake of safety I have to say a few things.

First you walked toward the tree revving the saw while you were walking. This is a huge unnecessary hazard ! People should know that if you are going to take more than a couple of steps you should use the chain brake. DON'T REV THE SAW WHILE YOU ARE WALKING WITH IT you don't want to trip on a revving saw.

 Second you were crouched down at the base of that tree WAY TOO LONG! That is the kill zone!!! and the sooner you get out of there the more chance you have of living another day.

I would have cut that tree with an open faced wedge, plunge cut, trigger wood, and one quick felling wedge (although I think that the lean was close enough to the direction that it did not need much) The tree would have landed in the same spot but I would have been much farther away when it fell.

Anyway good luck I don't mean to sound harsh but the job is dangerous and you need to remember that anything you can do to make it safer is worth it.   
Mike

Offline CCC4

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 10:23:18 am »
Yes Sir, your safety concerns are valid and needed to be addressed, no offense taken. Actually a couple of the points you bring up will be taken into consideration for my upcoming C Faller test...heck I even drop started my saw. Signs of running and gunning day in and out with no days off for weeks at a time I guess. I should have had the camera man show the top of the tree, the tree had no body mas lean and appeared that way, however the top mass was weighted over the bluff, but that is neither here nor there...but if I am going to show why I did what I did, the reason should have been in the video and it was a mistake to have not shown it.

Thank you for your concerns and they will be noted and hopefully other people watching the video will see the mistakes and note them in their daily falling and be a more safe and cautious faller. Thank you

Offline OH logger

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 10:28:35 am »
nice job CCC4. its hard for me to be critical because  I WASNT THERE. I couldn't see in the video which way the tree was leaning SINCE I WASNT THERE. but who am I to say. the tree went down where you wanted without killing you so you did good. anyone can look at a 2 minute video of  even Soren Erikson cutting a tree and say he did it wrong and I would have done it different. that's the thing with cutting trees. everyone has different techniques. also theres a huge difference in cutting for a living and cutting for a hobby.
john

Offline so il logger

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 10:44:09 am »
Nice work as always CCC4  ;)

Grassfed do you always GOL cut? Not many if any production faller's here implement the GOL technique on a regular basis.
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Offline grassfed

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 11:17:22 am »
 I took my first GOL class 12 years ago. I have been using a chainsaw on and off to make a living since I was 14 (1976) After I did GOL I would use the technique sometimes and other times I would be lazy and think that it was such an easy tree that I did not need it.

I don't go through every step like they do in class but I do keep the basics in mind. Lookup escape route...  I don't need to spend much time aiming because I have enough experience that I can tell where to aim. I do drop start my saw because of arthritis .

 Over the years I really have come to appreciate using: plunge cut. trigger wood and wedge. I use GOL more now than ever because the  I discovered that 99% of the times that I have run into problems like: a tree pinching a saw because of wind or bad call on lean, another tree pulling it in a direction that I did not see, hitting unexpected rot in the middle of a tree, I wind up wasting time and being put into some hazardous positions that GOL technique could have helped me avoid.
I have pretty bad hip arthritis and I can't move away from the tree very quickly so I need to be extra careful. 

Here is a video of me that I posted a couple of years ago. You can see that I am not perfect and I move pretty slow because of the arthritis also the ground was covered with ice here and I was not wearing my corks. But this is pretty much how I work.

Mike

Offline grassfed

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2016, 11:25:10 am »
One thing about this video that I should explain is that on the second small fir I cut I high stumped it because it was right next to a beaver felled stump that I wanted to show someone because it showed how far the beavers were coming up from the creek. 
Mike

Offline CCC4

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 12:01:55 pm »
Excellent depiction of your cutting! Very safe, Thank you for sharing, because a mentioned earlier, there are many different styles out there. Unfortunately I have to be on the run due to (2) skidder OPs in my back pocket pretty much at all times. Good Ops on a 450 TJ and 648 G3 will make you run your paces.

Offline grassfed

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 12:26:05 pm »
I understand but always remember that it is your life! Two skidders is too much for one feller.  The big thing to me is to get as far away from the stump as fast you can.

 Every year we lose people around here and they usually die right at the stump from falling debris, a barber chair, or the tree swinging and bouncing when it hits (The first big tree I cut in the vid would have got me if I was at the stump)

We lost a guy this fall, he was the local ag/forestry tire guy and he was as tough as they come. He had been cutting wood his whole life and was my age. He never took GOL; I even talked to him about it back in 2007 while we were changing a tire on my skidder; he figured that he had been doing it long enough that he didn't need it.

Maybe it would have saved him maybe it wouldn't have but his grandkids sure do miss him.
Mike

Offline jwilly3879

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 12:54:55 pm »
I don't do any felling anymore, I am the header guy but my son and grandson both use the GOL technique quite often. My grandson learned from his Dad and from college courses. A lot of people say you walk around the tree to much and it takes too long, lose too much wood with the open face, etc. I've never heard a complaint or been docked for the open face and not every tree needs to be bore cut. The advantage of the open face is that the hinge controls the tree almost all the way down. The fellow I used to work with always used a very shallow notch and if you didn't stay with the back cut you could get a lot of fiber pull and once it was loose there was no control. The GOL method leaves a step on the stump which helps to prevent the tree from coming back.

After watching someone who has used it consistently you can see there is no lost time.

Offline Plankton

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 02:36:37 pm »
Thank you! I don't have a pic of that particular stump, but I can look and see if I have one of the same came cut. What I did is essentially remove some of the compression wood (which was weighted toward the bluff edge), then came around to my desired landing zone which was 90* to the opposite of where the tree naturally wanted to go and threw in a thin Humbolt face kerfing back to 50%. I then started at the compression corner removing more of the compression wood and using my "turn corner" to bring the tree around to the face and letting her go when she arrived.

I hope that makes sense. Thank you for asking  :)

Thanks for sharing, very similar to what I do in that sort of situation, except I usually put in a steep humbolt to keep the tree on the stump longer so I can work the hinge for a longer time. Every tree is different of course.

Offline Offthebeatenpath

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2016, 04:17:32 pm »
Thanks for the vid CCC4- I always enjoy when you post them. I'm not a production logger and I was taught the GOL method from the outset, so that's basically what I use (subtracting and modifying some of the steps for the sake of efficiency). I've been wanting to work on the swing method since the discussion last year, but I rarely find myself in a location where the canopy is open enough for me to practice it. The type of cutting I do is usually in tight corridors with more pine than hardwood. The last couple weeks we've been falling trees marked by a forester in a shoreline zone and I keep wondering how some of you guys (CCC4, So Il Logger, TreeSlayer, etc.) manage to get your sprawling topped hardwood on the ground without getting hung up... different landscape and different job specs play a part I reckon (not to mention your skills!).

So Il Logger- I do know quite a few production loggers around here who plunge cut almost every tree. Perhaps they don't follow all the GOL steps on each tree, but it's the same foundation.  I think it actually is pretty darn efficient if that's what how you primarily cut.
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Offline CCC4

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016, 05:42:23 pm »
Offthebeatenpath, Thank man! As for your question, I can only answer for myself. First off, I will hang one every now and then, we all do it. I am gonna go in circles from here, so I hope I don't lose ya. On marked stand of timber you have to cut what they mark in most cases, sometimes clear falling zones will just show themselves and other times you are left cussing the timber markers. Sometimes you pick clear holes to aim for...but sometime those clear holes are where the skidder OP needs to be working from. A lot of it depends on skidder availability and the OPs ease of removal...sometimes you mess up due to not knowing a skidder OP and how they expect their lead set. Most of the time I straight line lead in strips, sometimes I have to punch holes to give falling zones. A lot depend on grade of ground as to how a lead is set.

As to getting large top timber through tight canopy, I have found that with my style of cutting and burning the hinge, it allows for the timber to spin or get a roll instead of being fixed to the stump. A lot of times you can get a non destructive roll out and get your timber on the ground. One reason I believe this is true is by watching my boss set lead with a Hydro Ax...think about this for a second...the hydro Ax keeps the tree stable and throws it straight down...no roll, no twist...and they hang up when forced into a lead. Does that make sense? It is just my observation and just my own .02 but in my mind it backs up what I am trying to say with getting a roll out.

I will leave it there, i'm afraid that may have been confusing. My apologies if it is but I will clarify further if need be. These are just my observations.

Offline craigc

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 05:45:51 pm »
We own a Sawmill in Central Illinois and do a lot of are own logging.  We do GOL cutting, maybe vary from it in certain situations.  I am the only one that will vary from it much.  I don't let the guys do it because of our WC rates if they get hurt and the loss manager comes out and sees a bad technique we are screwed.  WC rates in Illinois can range from $65 to $110/ $100.  We get the production we need and the main thing is to come home in one piece every night.
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Offline Offthebeatenpath

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2016, 06:00:09 pm »
CCC4- Not confusing at all. You make a lot of sense, esp. about rolling trees through the canopy. When I mentioned that I sometimes modify the GOL technique, it can involve reducing the hinge and/or face cut so that the tree breaks from the hinge before it touches down, often so it can roll through a tight corridor. I know this compromises some of the safety of having the tree stay attached to the hinge until it touches down, but a hung tree is never safe. By using the plunge cut and trigger wood method, I'm able to stay a bit farther from the bole when it falls.

In terms of the skidder operator, well that's me.  And I still don't know how he wants his lead set sometimes... but at least I do know where the machine is at at all times!
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Online chep

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2016, 06:46:31 pm »
CCC4
 Thanks for posting a good video showing serious control.

On the subject of letting a tree spin its way to ground I can offer this photo. This is a veneer red oak i cut this winter using a modified GOL cut. smaller  face, cut the outer sap wood, gut your hinge. Leave enough hinge to guide tree and also break when the tree meets resistance (instead of splitting the tree with a full hinge). This tree was very evenly weighted and I wanted to save nice maples behind it so I had to wedge it over. I am sure this takes longer then chasing your cuts around and wiping the hinge, but: the tree goes where I want it, it rolls off  (notice the 90 degree rotation)the stump and saves out.  I am 15 feet away. I am also handchopping for a forwarder in this application. So lots of differences, but the same goal. Put wood on the landing. 8)

 

Offline so il logger

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2016, 06:53:46 pm »
I use a form of GOL on certain tree's, and on line timber or edge timber where we are pushing them or pulling them.  I leave a tab on the corner to pull it around is how i directionally swing them. Rarely leave a full hinge if i do then it is a thin one, unless I am setting a tree up to push over i rarely ever leave a trigger. I started falling timber with the gol method, then i modified it to speed thing's up. Any given day i will use a half a dozen different cut's. It is all in what makes you comfortable  :)
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Offline OH logger

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Re: Swing video
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2016, 07:30:22 am »
CCC4
 Thanks for posting a good video showing serious control.

On the subject of letting a tree spin its way to ground I can offer this photo. This is a veneer red oak i cut this winter using a modified GOL cut. smaller  face, cut the outer sap wood, gut your hinge. Leave enough hinge to guide tree and also break when the tree meets resistance (instead of splitting the tree with a full hinge). This tree was very evenly weighted and I wanted to save nice maples behind it so I had to wedge it over. I am sure this takes longer then chasing your cuts around and wiping the hinge, but: the tree goes where I want it, it rolls off  (notice the 90 degree rotation)the stump and saves out.  I am 15 feet away. I am also handchopping for a forwarder in this application. So lots of differences, but the same goal. Put wood on the landing. 8)

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
that pic looks about exactly like what my butts look like. just the way I like em ;D
john