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Stihl 461 or just get a 661?

Started by Walt, February 12, 2016, 10:28:17 AM

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Walt

I am ready to buy a new saw. I think I want a 461 R. After looking around at all the "vr's" videos and whatever I can find I am now wondering if I'd be just as well or better off going with the 661. I need more saw than my 290 and I am figuring on a 20 and a 28 inch bar for the new saw. I will buy a Stihl, I hope this question hasn't been burn't out but this is a big investment for me. I cut 15+ cords a year all hardwoods. My question really is towards these 2 saws. If I am looking at a 461 should I just go with a 661 and be done with it. Regards Walt 
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

ladylake

 
That extra 2# + will wear you out fast.  I might even go with a 362 which will cut a LOT faster than a 290.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Walt

The weight was the consideration with me picking of the 461. I plan to use this saw for bucking as well as felling. The 461 feels good to me, both are rated by Stihl for the same bar lengths. Was wondering if the performance of the added cc's was a good trade off with the weight increase. Thank you ladylake for the reply..Walt 
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

pwheel

Unless you want to run a chainsaw for an exercise routine or just because, the ms661 is more of a logging/big timber saw than firewood saw. The ms461 with 6 hp is more than enough for firewood, at least around where I live. I have an ms460 w/ 25" b/c, but unless I run into something big, it's typically no faster than my ms440 w/ 20" b/c.
Stihl MS260 Pro, MS261, MS440 x2, MS460, FS90; 1982 Power King 1614

ladylake

 The 441 and 461 are real close in weight, may as well get the extra power of the 461.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

beauj5

I don't know how large the trees you are cutting up for firewood, but I would get a 461.  It will last just as long and be easier on the pocket book and your back.  My 660 I use for falling and cutting the large diameter trees I run across.  That much power with a short bar (28" and under) is overkill.  I like the 460 (old version of the 461) with a 28" bar.  I found it to be the perfect set up.  I also run the 28" on the old 044s too, I find that I bend over less etc.  Anyway, both saws are awesome.  Congrats on getting a new saw.
When the road forked, I went straight.

T540xp, 562xp, 034 super mag, 044, 460, 576, 056 super mag, ms460, 066, ms880, 090.

HolmenTree

My personal advice is get the latest MS441.  Way more advanced with air injection,  superior spring anti vibe to name a few over the 461.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Walt

Quote from: beauj5 on February 12, 2016, 02:05:19 PM
I don't know how large the trees you are cutting up for firewood, but I would get a 461.  It will last just as long and be easier on the pocket book and your back.  My 660 I use for falling and cutting the large diameter trees I run across.  That much power with a short bar (28" and under) is overkill.  I like the 460 (old version of the 461) with a 28" bar.  I found it to be the perfect set up.  I also run the 28" on the old 044s too, I find that I bend over less etc.  Anyway, both saws are awesome.  Congrats on getting a new saw.

I guess the average big tree's I'm felling to be in the 30 inch BHD plus a lot less.  I'm way more comfortable being able to plunge all the way through from one side for me wanting a 28 inch bar and I seem to be wanting that option a lot of the time. Being more comfortable and allowing my back more run time really makes the most sense. I appreciate the thoughts offered and its good to have a place to ask. I've been at this a while but I am no pro. Thanks everyone, Walt
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

sharkey

461 has the regular carb whereas the 661 has the electronic carb.  I would go for the 461 at this time.

FireManLR86

Check with your local Stihl dealer, I just got a 461 for the price of a 441 because of the import issues with the 41 right now.

ohiowoodchuck

Quote from: FireManLR86 on February 13, 2016, 08:36:23 PM
Check with your local Stihl dealer, I just got a 461 for the price of a 441 because of the import issues with the 41 right now.
A 461 should be around 850.00 right now. The 441 was pulled because it can't meet emissions.
Education is the best defense against the media.

HolmenTree

Stihl Canada has full inventory of the MS441 C-M. for $1,160 CDN.
CDN dollar is worth 70 U.S.cents
U.S. dollars would buy it for about  $800 U.S.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Walt

Quote from: HolmenTree on February 13, 2016, 10:48:14 PM
Stihl Canada has full inventory of the MS441 C-M. for $1,160 CDN.
CDN dollar is worth 70 U.S.cents
U.S. dollars would buy it for about  $800 U.S.
Stock/bare so to speak 461's I have seen were 1065.00 with a 25 inch bar. Dealers here do not stock the R version, which is what I want, 80.00 more. I was told 10% off the price is best they can do on the cost. 
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

ohiowoodchuck

Quote from: Walt on February 14, 2016, 09:56:21 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on February 13, 2016, 10:48:14 PM
Stihl Canada has full inventory of the MS441 C-M. for $1,160 CDN.
CDN dollar is worth 70 U.S.cents
U.S. dollars would buy it for about  $800 U.S.
Stock/bare so to speak 461's I have seen were 1065.00 with a 25 inch bar. Dealers here do not stock the R version, which is what I want, 80.00 more. I was told 10% off the price is best they can do on the cost.
See if your dealer has a 441 on the shelf if he says there on hold he would have to sell you a 461 at that cost of 850 or so. There all told to lower the price because of the emission game. My dealer tried to get me to buy one at that price a few weeks ago.
Education is the best defense against the media.

landscraper

I have several stihl saws ranging between 311-20" and 660-36" and I prefer the 460 with a 25" bar for all around use, felling through firewood. 
Firewood is energy independence on a personal scale.

timberjack 240a

Ive got both. Every time i pull the big one out i run it for five minutes and wonder why i even have it. Go for the 461, you won't regret it.
When all else fails, cut it and see what happens.
2016 kenworth t800, rotobec elite, timberjack 240a, deere 450j, kobelco 70sr, mahindra 4035, to many saws to count

footer

I personally have no issue running a 660 as my medium sized saw, but as others have noted. It is pretty dangerous with a short bar. I have run a 20 inch bar on it, and you really need to be careful! The potential for kick back and pushing out is extremely high because of the amount of power the thing has. Up until 2 years ago, I had 026, 034, and 084 as my 3 sizes. Since my 026 and 034 are worn out, I bought a ms261, and ms660, and still have the 084. anything much over 14 inches, I use the 660 unless its maybe a couple cuts and I have the 261 out already.

HolmenTree

Actually a 36" b/c on a a 660 makes alot more dangerous kick back energy then a 16" b/c.
Think of a extension on your ratchet's handle to make more leverage. Longer bar moved upwards by the kickback force from the upper quadrant of the bar nose.....going back to your hands at the handles.
I had kickbacks with my Stihl 090AV with a 5 foot bar/chain that was so severe that the bar bent sideways derailing the chain along with throwing the saw out of my hands.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

footer

Im sure the actual energy is higher because of the leverage factor, but the extra weight and length slows down the speed at which it happens. Short and light can accelerate faster than long and heavy. So, at least from my perspective using both, the short bar seems to react and move a lot faster in a kickback situation, leaving you less time to react. your right on as far as actual torque applied to the saw during a kickback would be higher, the speed that the thing actually moves would be lower. Either way, you need to be prepared at all times when handling a saw like that, a lot more so than on the smaller saws. 

ZeroJunk

I know I am preaching to the choir, but if you have a kick back you did something wrong. Avoid them like a rattle snake.

A MS661 is a lot of saw for regular use unless you are young and tough as a pine knot.

footer

Quote from: ZeroJunk on February 15, 2016, 03:37:53 PM
I know I am preaching to the choir, but if you have a kick back you did something wrong. Avoid them like a rattle snake.

A MS661 is a lot of saw for regular use unless you are young and tough as a pine knot.
I personally have had very few, because I force myself to stay aware of what im doing at all times.  But I grew up around chainsaws, and have spent many years running them. My first saw was a 084, and for many years, was the only one I used, for everything, including liming. I was just trying to point out the fact that that as you increase the horsepower of the saw, you also increase the danger factors. Someone who has never run something like a 660, might not even think about it.

HolmenTree

Stihl sells a odd ball bar in the large 3003 mount. It's  20 inches long with a oversized 13 tooth sprocket tip. I heard of a guy who get a pretty bad cut from a kickback with this bar on a 066 Stihl he was using. He did admit his rakers where a bit low but didn't realize how much kickback energy that large  tip produced until it was too late.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

terrifictimbersllc

I have a 460 with 20" bar and keep looking at 200/300 series whenever I"m in the store. 460 is everything I'd ever need for firewood but the issue is weight.  in Also have 880 and have had 660 both of which I only use/d near the truck in portable milling.  Because of needing long bars 36+.  660 is a fantastic saw but pass on it for firewood.  Sawing should be fun.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

Quote from: HolmenTree on February 15, 2016, 08:42:13 PM
Stihl sells a odd ball bar in the large 3003 mount. It's  20 inches long with a oversized 13 tooth sprocket tip.
Will I think i might have a few of them in stock. They have the same shape at the nose as a Duromatic bar, very broad. The 404 bar comes in this shape, but a 13 teeth 3/8 bar nose runs a 36RSC chain on it. But the smallest size available is 20".
Very long lasting and they are good as long as you dont try any fancy cutting with the tip.Then it packs a real wallop!
Joe

Walt

I will order the 461R with a 28 inch bar as the dealer does not stock the 461R. My 290 has a 18 on it which is my current do all saw and a small 170 for limb clean-up. I will probably get a 20 inch bar to fit the 461 also. This I hope will be all I will ever need for clearing our property and bucking firewood. I have been cutting firewood most of my life, I'm 61 and have never used a saw more powerful than my 290. I understand and appreciate the being careful concerns and I look forward to this new saw, It'll probably amaze me according to our local dealer.  Thanks again for the opinions, advice and concerns. Regards Walt
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

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pwheel

Quote from: Walt on February 16, 2016, 10:13:08 AM
I will order the 461R with a 28 inch bar as the dealer does not stock the 461R... I will probably get a 20 inch bar to fit the 461 also. This I hope will be all I will ever need for clearing our property and bucking firewood. I have been cutting firewood most of my life, I'm 61 and have never used a saw more powerful than my 290...
So many good things about the 461; I'm sure you'll be pleased. A few ideas from an old guy (got a few years on ya :laugh:): 1. You won't be able to stump really low to the ground with a wrap handle; 2. The wrap handle and large clutch cover add more weight than I would want to carry (have an ms460); 3. On a 25" bar, that's about as long a chain as I have the patience to sharpen & set depth gauges. Balance is slightly front-heavy with a 25" bar; with a standard 28" bar it's a bit much unless you're big and in shape. Suggest standardizing on a 25" bar for the 461 and grab the 290 for smaller stuff. Good luck and happy cutting.
Stihl MS260 Pro, MS261, MS440 x2, MS460, FS90; 1982 Power King 1614

Walt

Is the clutch cover different on the R version of the 461? I think I have seen somewhere that it is. Wish my dealer had both saws to gander at. I think I"ll be ok with the nose heavy feel of the 28 inch bar but then again I haven't used one yet and the one I held did feel hefty in weight with a 25 inch bar.   Hummm....
Our dealer sells and maintains saws used by the Amish for the saw milling they do here in our community, Odon Indiana.  He's never seen a 461R as nobody has requested one. There's other Stihl dealer around but I like to keep my business close to home if I can and Rural King is outta the question. Just sayin" 
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

terrifictimbersllc

If this was in the store, there's still gas and oil to add yet.  ::)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

pwheel

Quote from: Walt on February 17, 2016, 10:07:40 AM
Is the clutch cover different on the R version of the 461?...
The R version clutch cover is larger, in part to protect the operator's right hand when holding the clutch side of the wrap handle. The R version is a must-have for logging & long bars, but may or may not be optimal for what you have in mind. You might ask your dealer for a recommendation based on your intended uses.
Stihl MS260 Pro, MS261, MS440 x2, MS460, FS90; 1982 Power King 1614

woodmarsh

I've got the Stihl 461 and I'm very happy with it. I'm a first time buyer so don't have any prior experience but I was recommended the 461 and thus far, I've had no problems and its proved to be exactly what I was after.

smmyb123

Dont get the 441. Get something different, anything, just not the 441. Im pretty sure the 441r is the same thing as the 461, just get that.

sandsawmill14

i have a 441 mag and cant say any bad about except it died last week after alot of abuse with a 28" bar i used it for some firewood to but i always change the bar to either 20" or 24" its a heck of a saw with a 20" bar and a good sharp chain  ;D
i to have not run a modern saw bigger than the 460 and the 441 but am curious as what yall think. we used to run the old 1050 supers which were over 100cc and some big old macs but cant remember the models just let me say alot of broken chains :) we still have a 1020 and a 1050 super but havent been run in years :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

ehp

go with the 461 , we have had less trouble with them over the others like the 441

lumberjack48

  If i was only cutting 15 cords of firewood and the biggest was 30 inch's. I would buy the MS-311, MS-362 or the MS-391. 30 yrs of full time logging, 3 to 5000 cds of logs an pulpwood a yr, 20 to a 100 cds of firewood, 6" to 40" butt size. The last 5 yrs i worked, i used a 034 Super.

Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

Walt

Probably overkill but I won't end up short. I ordered the 461R with a 28 inch bar. I wanted something with all I could possibly need and will most likely have more than I need. I've got 4 sassafras trees and 1 shag hickory trees to fell immediately where our cabin is going, all 30+ with bigger base measurements. These will break in the new saw. Hopefully this will be my last purchase in chainsaws. I should have it in less than a week. I again appreciate the time you guys take to offer up opinions and or suggestions. regards Walt
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

ehp

you did right by my thinking , 28 inch bar is lots for it thou

HolmenTree

20" all you need Walt but the 28" will handle anything you throw at it...you're not logging 5 days a week.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

DonnerParty

Great choice. 28" full skip full chisel is all I run on my 440 and it's a perfect fit. 461 will handle it fine. 3/4 wrap handle is excellent falling and limbing.

Keep your depth-gauges set correctly and your chain sharp. Don't go too aggressive if you're cutting hardwood.

Gwhunter

I went through this recently, I was set on a 461 but after comparing the two side by side I went with the 661. It's less than 1 pound heavier. The 461 is rated for a 32" bar and the 661 a 36" the price was $130 more for the 661.
It seemed like a no brainer for the minimal weight savings and HP gain to go with the 661.

Matt

Walt

Quote from: Gwhunter on February 26, 2016, 08:41:08 AM
I went through this recently, I was set on a 461 but after comparing the two side by side I went with the 661. It's less than 1 pound heavier. The 461 is rated for a 32" bar and the 661 a 36" the price was $130 more for the 661.
It seemed like a no brainer for the minimal weight savings and HP gain to go with the 461.

Matt
This was why I posted this, its exactly what I was thinking. I'm an old drag racer and there's no replacement for displacement. I settled on a 461 because the dealer suggested it if I ever want to run a shorter bar than the 28 inch.  I think its going to end up with a 20 inch bar for cutting up firewood and I'll have a 28 for felling. I should have it in the next day or 2. Regards, Walt
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

Gwhunter

I went with a 28" on the 661 since I figured it's suffice the bulk of the time.
I've got a Husky Rancher 55 I run a 20" bar on. So the husky gets used more.
I'm gonna buy a 36" bar for the 661 at some point though.

Matt

HolmenTree

A 20" would balance nicely on the 661.
The 661 is a fine saw. Most advanced big bore saw saw on the market.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

I like this video.  Saw looks impressive,  not sure about the operator.  Maybe he only gets paid by hourly rate :D

http://youtu.be/_nmzRDufXBg
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Walt

 

 

461R. I picked up a 20 and a 28 inch bar with the saw, Thanks everyone, Regards Walt
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

s grinder

Good luck with it Walt,she's a beauty.If it's starts to get heavy,just give it a break,and take a rest.

49er

I highly recommend the 28inch Stihl ES Light bar. I got one on my Jonserd 2288 and it makes it seem almost like a 70cc saw.
Husqvarna EC390 365xt
Jonsered 2188 2165 2260 2253 70e
Redmax GZ4000

Walt

Quote from: s grinder on March 03, 2016, 05:46:00 PM
Good luck with it Walt,she's a beauty.If it's starts to get heavy,just give it a break,and take a rest.
[/]


It is heavy for sure, I'd liked to have picked up a lite bar but I spent enough for a while...It'll give me a workout as I see it, LOL.....
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

tom fifield

I got the 461R yesterday, with a 28" bar. I have a 25" bar that I was using with my 310 but the 310 does not run the 25" well it runs a 20" fine, this is why I got the 461 so I can cut bigger logs, trees. I used it yesterday just as i had to try it out, with the 25" bar sunk all the way it cut like butter. For Sthil chainsaws I have a 210, a 250, a 310, a pole saw, a saw of my weed eater, and now a 461R.
My dealer said more loggers use the 461R as it is lighter and balanced well.

Walt

Well I've spent some time with this new 461 and after the fact I got a couple novice user opinions.
I can see the need for the wrap handle to have a removable section to allow close cuts to the ground. Stihl could easily make the side handle bolt on the typical style handle to make it removable. I am entertaining making one myself to do as mentioned. The 28 inch bar is a handful bucking after felling, cutting rounds. I am use to a 18 inch bar and I find myself hitting the ground very easily with the longer bar, I have a 20 inch to install. I think I'll get a better feel for the long bar in time. I also agree with a lite bar in the 28 inch length, it gets heavy and I'm not getting any younger. Compared to my 290 this thing is a beast on steroids. I have just fell and cut up a huge shag hickory and it eats wood with the big bar like me on a good steak, wow...I love this saw, its fairly smooth, I can really lean on it while cutting, and the wrap handle offers comfort in odd positions. I appreciate all the reply's you guys offered up, this is a great forum and place to hang and learn from the pro's, Regards Walt 
MS461R, MS290, MS170, Homelite XL, Dirty Hand Tools 27T splitter, Kubota B20 FEL&BH, Timberjack Woodchuck, US Stove Co. 2421 for heat. Too many Wheel Horse Garden Tractors..

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