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Author Topic: Fuel getting into the crankcase?  (Read 2486 times)

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Offline madmari

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Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« on: February 04, 2016, 07:16:37 am »
I did an oil change before starting this job in late December. I overfilled the crankcase due to a basterdized dip stick. I drained off excess oil, but slowly gained volume over the following weeks and the oil viscosity thinned.
  This motor runs consistently at 60 psi oi; pressure, but I saw that slowly slip down to 30PSI as the oil thinned.  The motor starts beautifully, even cold and runs very good.
  I changed the oil a couple days ago and got 60 PSI again. After two days, I again see a small increase in the crankcase volume.
   How can fuel be getting into the crankcase? Going by the rings?
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline OntarioAl

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 08:30:33 am »
I do not think it is going by the rings that would imply that one or more of your injector tips are blown and since you say it starts and runs without problems, I would look elsewhere.
If I recall right you have a Ford diesel ,if so I would look at the possibility of leaking past an inline mechanical fuel pump or leaking from the injection pump into the sump via the drive train.
my thoughts
Al
Al Raman

Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 08:44:02 am »
It is a Ford diesel. I run SAE 30. Is that correct for this motor?
 I can check the fuel pump easily enough, but the injector pump will be a problem. I have to keep running, pretty tight schedule but don't want to cause damage to the motor. Constant worries, this logging business.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline OntarioAl

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 09:06:41 am »
I feel  for you ,logging is a tough business.
I have never owned a ford diesel powered piece of equipment so as to the oil specs I can only assume 30# oil should be safe.
If it is the mechanical pump changing it out should cure the problem, if not consider as a short term measure only by going to a heavier weight oil and changing it more often.
Al
Al Raman

Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 09:12:43 am »
Thanks. That was my thought as a short term solution; I have a lot of work to do come spring on this machine. It works good, but at 50 years old she needs some attention. Making a list.....
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 09:18:46 am »
Gaining oil is a classic symptom of a leaking diaphram in a mechanical fuel pump. Diesel fuel leaking past the diaphram dumps into the crankcase.. Cheap fix, replace the pump...
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Offline Corley5

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 12:12:02 pm »
I've replaced a couple lift pumps on my Deutz when the engine oil level started to go up.  I had the injector pump main shaft seal fail on my 706 Farmall and it dumped fuel into the crankcase.
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Offline rjwoelk

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2016, 12:51:23 pm »
Corly5
How is that deutz on fuel I am looking at one to run my firewood processor.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Offline Gary_C

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2016, 12:54:03 pm »
Yes, replace the lift pump ASAP. That crankcase dilution with diesel fuel is reducing the lubrication ability of your oil and that results in accelerated wear of everything, including the rings.

I did run a ford diesel in a Valmet 546H and if I remember right I ran 15W-40 oil. I can't remember what the book said and I just moved the books somewhere and not sure where they are now. Straight 30W is too thick on starting in cold weather and cold starting with straight 30W will cause accelerated wear on startup. If I still was running that machine, I would use 5W-40 full synthetic oil. The only drawback to the synthetic oil is if a high hour engine is leaking oil or needs frequent oil additions or changes, it gets expensive.

Overhauling those old ford engines is getting difficult because there are few new parts available.
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Offline Corley5

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2016, 01:08:17 pm »
It's a F4L912 in a C4 Forwarder.  It's very good on fuel.  Tough engine too  :)
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Offline rjwoelk

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2016, 01:14:47 pm »
They made a 100 tractor and figured it would be a good fit, then I can use my 7120 cih for loading logs.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2016, 02:02:56 pm »
ordered a new pump this am. Hope that's it...
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2016, 04:21:43 pm »
The new fuel pump will fix your problem.  It has happened to me twice.
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Offline bushmechanic

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2016, 08:47:59 pm »
FYI those 172/220/254 Ford's have the injectors under the valve cover so you may want to make sure you don't have a slack injector line inside.

Offline treeslayer2003

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2016, 08:56:45 pm »
FYI those 172/220/254 Ford's have the injectors under the valve cover so you may want to make sure you don't have a slack injector line inside.
like a detroit? i have seen the cross over lines under the cover on those leak usually from a cracked flange from over tightening. vibration could do it to i s'pose.

Offline Logger RK

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2016, 10:37:08 pm »
Or if somebody forgets to tighten the line to a injector the same thing happens. Cause I've done it. But only once. That was on a 353 Detroit. Also have a F5L912 in a C5D & it's been a good motor & easy on fuel.

Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2016, 01:03:07 pm »
New fuel pump fixed the problem. Thanks!!!!!
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2016, 09:19:53 pm »
Thanks for reporting back.   :P   8)
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Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2016, 05:52:54 am »
Well, that didn't last long. Pulling wood hard, long days and again I am getting fuel in the crankcase. It was fine up until yesterday,  when I noticed a a slight rise in the oil level.
  The new fuel pump I bought on ebay. I don't know the quality so maybe it was junk. I see a slight weep where the pump meets the block.

Anyone ever switched to an electric pump?
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline North River Energy

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2016, 07:52:39 am »
I'm using a Facet electric from Napa on my firewood processor.  It's a Bedford diesel, more or less the same configuration as a Perkins with a CAV/Lucas/Stanadyne IP.
No problems so far, after several years and many hundreds of hours. Just make sure you mount it low enough, as they push rather than lift.

Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2016, 10:00:46 am »
I guess my next question would be how to power the unit, as there is no ignition circuit. Off the amp gauge?
Do the pumps run continuously when electrified or shut off at a certain pressure?
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline s grinder

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2016, 03:24:19 pm »
I would pull the valve cover like Bushmechanic mentioned,very well could have a injector line or return line leaking.Have seen it happen many years ago on a Ford backhoe.

Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2016, 05:05:05 pm »
The injectors are on the head outside of the valve cover. This is a Ford (Lehman) if that helps.
 
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.

Offline North River Energy

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2016, 07:00:15 pm »
I run mine off a fused circuit to the battery through the ignition switch.  If your alternator uses an oil pressure switch to activate the field circuit, you can tie into that.

Offline s grinder

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2016, 08:05:08 pm »
Madmari,Had a friend with a Morbark chipper with a BT4 Cummins with a new injection pump in it and was making oil,changed transfer pump just like you did ,same problem,ended up two bad injectors,very bad spray patten when tested,replaced all four,solved the problem.It ran good no skipping,the only thing he noticed was when he was above it in his bucket truck he could hardly stand the fumes.The stack was also on the damp side but by no means wet.

Offline madmari

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Re: Fuel getting into the crankcase?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2016, 08:26:52 pm »
I have noticed pretty vile fumes when getting chokers ready. Maybe thats the culprit. It doesn't wet stack, but the exhaust seems awful rich.
I know why dogs stick thier head out the car window.