iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Electric PTO for blade engagement?

Started by JRWoodchuck, February 03, 2016, 01:34:14 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JRWoodchuck

New to forum. Been reading threads on here for awhile now. I am currently building a mill and trying to figure out the best way to engage my blade. I haven't seen much about electric pto for the blade engagement. Just curious what everyone else's thoughts are on them.
Thanks!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Magicman

I am not a sawmill builder, but Welcome to the Forestry Forum, JRWoodchuck.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Den-Den

If you are referencing an electrically actuated clutch, it should work fine if you get one that fits your engine shaft and is rated to handle its horsepower.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

gww

If you are talking about the type that starts a lawn mower blade, I too have been thinking about that if I run on to one easily enough.  The electric clutches seem to be about twice the price of a centrifical fource one.  I would think you would need a seriously strong set up if it wants to start at full speed when turned on.  We put heavier blades on one of dads bush hoggs and it almost moves the tractor when it is engauged.  I will be interested on others views.  Welcome to the forum.
gww

Hilltop366

Welcome, I had one on my homebuilt Chain saw mill. The clutch came with the lawn tractor engine, it worked ok but one limiting factor was I could only use one belt and a double belt setup would have been better.

york

How about pictures of your build-new build,i would keep it simple....
Albert

JRWoodchuck

Yes was referring to the electric actuated ones. Ill post some pictures once I remember to take some! It seems like a pretty simple way to engage the blade since I will already have a 12v system in place for starting the engine.
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

beenthere

The electric clutch is not a soft start. If not much mass to accelerate, then might be okay.
But if a lot of mass, then maybe not so good.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

whiskers

Welcome
Had the same notion, asked the parts guy at the green lawn tractor place if an electric clutch with single B belt could survive on a band saw with an 18 horse engine. He believed it would work for a while, but doubted it would last. Tried it anyway, would make dust ok but pulling chips on a wide cut it slipped. The over center belt tensioner is more reliable, just not as easy as a switch.  (my clutch was used, ymmv )
many irons in the fire.........

Hilltop366

Quote from: whiskers on February 03, 2016, 03:22:37 PM
The over center belt tensioner is more reliable, just not as easy as a switch.  (my clutch was used, ymmv )

Could use a over centre tensioner and activate it with a motor and cable, linear actuator or hydraulic cylinder if you were using hydraulics.

Kbeitz

I have a 13hp Honda on my mill useing one belt clutch.
I dont think i would want to try a bigger engine useing only one belt.
Electric clutches have larger dia. pullies then the centrifical ones if that matters.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

cntryby

Lawn mower blades have very little resistance to start moving, even then my 26 hp mower bogs a little when engaging the blades.

The wheels, blade guides...etc. will create a lot of resistance. There is a reason the manufactures use the belt tension methods for so many mills. Even if it works for a while, I would be skeptical of long term reliability.

That being said, if the unit is robust enough, it may work fine, and would certainly be convenient.
Grey haired riders didn't get that way from pure luck.

Don_Papenburg

They use huge electric clutches on some combines . they work but they jerk everything instantly  and they burn out  . That is why they put threaded holes inthem so they can be bolted solid  so you can finish your job until a repair can be made.   Some combines use hydraulic cylinders to overcenter a belt tensioner . That is a smooth engagement of the mechanicals .  Most of the old combines used a hand operated  lever  to do the same thing . it was very simple and very reliable . NO wires to smoke No hoses to leak  .  Go for it if you wish, it will work, but repairs suck if they can be avoided.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

redprospector

I thought about putting a 12 volt clutch on my mill a while back, but couldn't find what I needed. I found an Ogura clutch that was supposed to be good for up to 350 ft. lbs. of torque, but it only had a pulley for 1 B series belt.  ???  I contacted Ogura to see if I could get one with a 2 belt pulley, they were very interested if I was putting something into production that would require them. But for 1 clutch they weren't too interested. They have the same clutch with a 2 belt A series pulley, but that wouldn't be much good on a sawmill.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Sawmill Man

 Go to Ogura's website ,they have part numbers for 2b and 3b clutches.  Curious about the $.
"I could have sworn I went over that one with the metal detector".

JRWoodchuck

Thank you everyone for your input! I believe I will go a different direction. Don't like having to fix things instead of getting work accomplished. Im putting a 19hp Kubota diesel as my power source and it will probably destroy that clutch sooner than I would like.
Thanks again!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

york

Hey,smart move,you don`t need that clutch.....
Albert

Ljohnsaw

I went from a 2.5hp electric motor (direct belted) to a 7hp gas motor with a manual belt tensioner.  When that still wasn't enough power, I put on a well-used garden tractor 18hp B&S engine.  It has a fixed pulley on one side and an electric clutch on the other.  The direction was correct with the electric clutch (so I wouldn't have to use a jack shaft), so I used that.  I've cut up about 500 bd-ft with the clutch.  I engage with low rpms and then throttle up.  I'm running car tires (doughnut spares) and so far, no problems.  The clutch has about a 6 or 7" pulley and I'm driving a 14" attached to the wheel hub.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

SamB

My TK1220 has an electric clutch 20HP eight years old no problems.

JRWoodchuck

Hey SamB,
Does your motor run single belt or double? and do you start at low rpm and throttle up?
Thanks!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Magicman

I doubt that it would hold up with auto tires as bandwheels.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

SamB

Single belt, engage at idle and increase RPM. Not sure if the larger TK mills use the same clutch,but it does have a double pulley on the clutch and single pulley on drive wheel.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Magicman on February 04, 2016, 03:49:39 PM
I doubt that it would hold up with auto tires as bandwheels.

We'll see. :-\  I do have a backup plan.  I'll just need to add a jack shaft to transfer the power from the back side of the engine to the front side where the electric clutch is.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Joe Hillmann

I have an electric clutch on my mill using trailer tires for band wheels.  The first one was 30+ years old and it came apart  after a few months using it.  I got a much stronger(and cheaper) one from surplus starter and alternator and it appears to be holding up just fine.  I usually engage it at idol and don't shut it off after every cut unless I am going to be going in front of the blade or the dust shoot.  I figure that reduces the wear on the clutch.

Magicman

Starting up as ljohnsaw does, gives the wheels a chance to start turning before it is throttled up.  There is a tremendous amount of mass, as in "flywheel effect" to take place.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Doug Wis

   My TK 1600 has an electric clutch on a 27hp kohler. Was a real pain until I put a remote throttle on. Runs a twin belt. Try to engage at a lower rpm then throttle up. Belts squeal if engaged at higher rpm. Has stood up ok. My  first mill ,a Keenerbilt, had an over center hand clutch which worked real good, but then with that mill you walked with the head. That system wouldn't work with the TK as you don't walk with the head. Have 2 Gleaner combines. An F2 with over center hand clutch and an F3 with electric clutch. Both do the job, but much prefer the over center on the F2. Electric clutches work but they start everything instantly.
A man who says he can do everything at 65 that he did at 25 sure wasn't doing much at 25.

Thank You Sponsors!