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Help-Stihl BR600 blower

Started by terrifictimbersllc, January 31, 2016, 02:34:37 PM

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terrifictimbersllc

UPDATE :  It might be fixed.  Have to use it a few more times to be sure.  Jump down to post 56 to see how:  https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,88417.0/all.html#lastPost

9 year old Stihl BR600 blower, lightly used,  will only accelerate about 1/4 of the way before sputtering and shaking. 

Starts and idles great.  Not improved if I remove the air filter.   New spark plug is sooty.   New carburetor,  pickup body, spark plug, clear exhaust screen, good fuel, throttle opens all the way, valves adjusted, ignition-flywheel clearance good, primes fine, problem remains with air filter removed.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated, I don't want to throw out this blower for something simple. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------below is where this all began-------------

Recently, my Stihl BR600 backpack blower has been running erratically for the first time in 10 years.  Usually starts on 1-2 pulls as always. But at times it runs great at full throttle, then others like it has trouble getting gas, sputtering at a medium low speed.  Seemed like a time for replacing the pickup body and all the fuel lines, and if that doesn't do it, do a carburetor rebuild. 

Yesterday I couldn't get it to pull over, pull on the cord was like it seized up.  So I started to look at it just now. 

First thing I did was take out the spark plug. Now it pulls fine, BUT.....fuel comes squirting out of the spark plug hole on each pull.  The cylinder movement is obviously blocked by liquid when the plug is in.

What's going on?   Any help appreciated.  Wanted to use it tomorrow.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

dougand3

Sounds like severe flooding...may be carb needle is stuck open. Needs carb cleaning and rebuild, at a minimum. Maybe a new carb.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: dougand3 on January 31, 2016, 02:47:45 PM
Sounds like severe flooding...may be carb needle is stuck open. Needs carb cleaning and rebuild, at a minimum. Maybe a new carb.
Thanks. I should take the carb apart right now and blow and clean it wherever I can see if that helps. 

Any other comments appreciated.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Cleaned carb out & reassembled, same problem, very hard to pull but easy with plug removed and a lot of liquid fuel in there.  Could there be something blocked on the exhaust/muffler end ?   
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

dougand3

Possible that muffler screen is so blocked that it's a closed system with no exit. But it'd have to be REAL BLOCKED and it would have run like crap with no power before this. Surely worth checking. Did you check that needle is seating properly? I'd look at getting a new carb - AM ones are going to be $20 or less.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

terrifictimbersllc

Muffler screen dirty but not blocked at all. Does pull easier with muffler off but muffler doesn't seem blocked at all.  Lots of gas in muffler still.

The needle valve is in top of the carb, beneath a pivot mechanism, right?   How would I know if it is seated or not?   With all the messing around in last 2 hrs the carb now needs rebuilding for sure. 

I am not seeing a model number on the carb like on my chainsaws like walbro xyz etc.  Says Stihl Chiina, C10 and a couple other numbers.  Any idea how to i.d. this carb to get a rebuild kit?

Very grateful for your help on Sunday afternoon. thanks
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

dougand3

Your carb sounds like an open pipe...trouble. The needle has a lever with spring under it. Press lever - needle opens. Lever returns up - needle seats. Either your needle tip is trashed or seat is trashed. 10 years is a long time on a carb. I wouldn't spend money on a carb kit. I'd get a new carb = Zama C1Q S183 or AM replacement. Search web for best deal.
Husky: 372xt, 272xp, 61, 55 (x3)...Poulan: 315, 4218 (x3), 2375, 2150, 2055, 2000 (x3)...Stihl 011AVT...Homelite XL...Saws come in broken, get fixed or parted, find new homes

Al_Smith

Well some people have problems rebuilding carbs and some don't .I'm among the later group myself . ;)

It could be something as simple as a  fuel pump check valve not seating which after 10 years would be no surprise.

If you are going to attempt to rebuild it being a Zama you have to make certain all numbers match or it won't work .There must be a dozen kits for the C1Q carb .---or just bite the bullet and get a new carb .It would be a shame to shelve a BR 600 just for lack of a carb, nice blower.

terrifictimbersllc

I searched for the zama carb c1Q s100a couldn't find it, think you have to get it at the stihl dealer guessing $50-60.
I found the zama rb-166 rebuild kit only $14 with shipping no harm trying that, in the meantime I'll see what the stihl deal is.  if that's reasonable I'll just order it and skip the rebuild. 

There were a bunch of aftermarket zama carb lookalikes for about $20-25 would rather get the original if i'm getting a carb.

I think it was the needle valve, when I gently pressed it in deeper, it went a bit further than the spring would push it.  there was fuel at the bottom of the seat maybe that was giving resistance i don't know, I don't really understand the plumbing in there.   then the spring popped out on the floor . but i'll get a new one in the kit.

thanks again for your help ill let you know what happens
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

ZeroJunk

 
Quotebut i'll get a new one in the kit.

I don't think they include the spring anymore. May want to double check before you spend $14 and can't find the original. They are a perpetual motion machine you know.

terrifictimbersllc

Some are called gasket and seal kits, don't have spring & needle valve.   Others like the Zama RB-166 do.
http://www.amazon.com/Zama-RB-166-Repair-Stihl-BR500/dp/B0074LQKFC
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Al_Smith

I took the liberty of looking up that carb on flea bay .They range from about 20 bucks up .If you want an official "Stihl" in the original package they go as high as $76 .Probably cheaper at the dealer as flea bay sellers often try to raise the ante.

Some "purists" might think just because it says Stihl it's better .I'll refrain from opining on that just because I'm a nice guy . ;D

ZeroJunk

I would bet they come off the same assembly line myself since Zama is made in China .

Texas-Jim

The C1Q isnt the model it should have a second set of numbers like S100 , that S number is one that determines the kit you need. If its a S183/184/185 a new carb from Stihl is 49 bucks. The other series are no longer offered as complete carbs. And for the record there is no comparison between an off brand part and a Stihl [art. In 7 years I have had one bad Stihl replacement carb, I have an entire box of the ebay carbs that are bad out of the box. You get what you pay for.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

Texas-Jim

Zama is actually owned by Stihl but Zama makes carbs per the customer specs, they are not created equal. But it is cool place to visit if ever get chance.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

joe_indi

The BR600 has a 4Mix engine. It is a four stroke engine and so the valve clearances have to be checked once in a way. In your case it would be that the valves need to be adjusted. You will need to take it to a shop for this. But if you want to attempt a DIY, this video clip that I made some time ago might help. But in the video the engine I have used is a FS130 brushcutter. The flywheels are different and the timing marks are different. But I mention it in the comments. https://youtu.be/waPf0oDAVOg

ZeroJunk

Molds are expensive as the dickens. Stihl destined carbs may have a more extensive QC. But, I won't believe they have two different lines running them until somebody shows me a picture.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Al_Smith on February 01, 2016, 07:41:30 PM
I took the liberty of looking up that carb on flea bay .They range from about 20 bucks up .If you want an official "Stihl" in the original package they go as high as $76 .Probably cheaper at the dealer as flea bay sellers often try to raise the ante.

Some "purists" might think just because it says Stihl it's better .I'll refrain from opining on that just because I'm a nice guy . ;D
Thanks, after I saw what was going on with knockoffs for now I was trying to stick with a Zama carb,  it doesn't have to say Stihl.  But the Zama 100 looks like it is a Stihl only carb. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: Texas-Jim on February 01, 2016, 08:08:11 PM
The C1Q isnt the model it should have a second set of numbers like S100 , that S number is one that determines the kit you need. If its a S183/184/185 a new carb from Stihl is 49 bucks. The other series are no longer offered as complete carbs. And for the record there is no comparison between an off brand part and a Stihl [art. In 7 years I have had one bad Stihl replacement carb, I have an entire box of the ebay carbs that are bad out of the box. You get what you pay for.
It says S100 and 609A at one place, and at another there is 183.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: joe_indi on February 02, 2016, 12:22:43 AM
The BR600 has a 4Mix engine. It is a four stroke engine and so the valve clearances have to be checked once in a way. In your case it would be that the valves need to be adjusted. You will need to take it to a shop for this. But if you want to attempt a DIY, this video clip that I made some time ago might help. But in the video the engine I have used is a FS130 brushcutter. The flywheels are different and the timing marks are different. But I mention it in the comments. https://youtu.be/waPf0oDAVOg
Mine is 2006 model, will it still be 4Mix?  Didn't see that anywhere. Is 4Mix still a 50:1 mix fuel?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Al_Smith

4 mix, really ? I was under the impression perhaps erroneously it was a larger version of the Br 400 of which I own one .

Good info.
l"ll  know to avoid one if it ever presents itself .That's all I would need is a 2 cycle with valves .Good grief!

ZeroJunk

It's more a four cycle that uses mix rather than an oil pan. They have a lot of torque and run well. But, when they go south it is not a matter of just sticking another piston in there. I think they addressed some early issues with valves and they seem to be reliable. They increase the warranty for using HP Ultra as carbon build up and valve failure is reduced.That is about all the lawn and land scape guys use around here.

beenthere

joe_indi
Great tutorial on the video.
tks
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sawguy21

Quote from: Al_Smith on February 02, 2016, 05:23:08 AM
4 mix, really ? I was under the impression perhaps erroneously it was a larger version of the Br 400 of which I own one .

Good info.
l"ll  know to avoid one if it ever presents itself .That's all I would need is a 2 cycle with valves .Good grief!
Al, I could not agree more but these engines are the way of the future. Conventional 2 strokes are too 'dirty' from an emissions stand point, they are also too noisy. Many urban areas have restrictive bylaws limiting decibel levels, Stihl has a BR500 which is a low noise version but performance suffers. Like you, I am hanging onto my older equipment as long as possible.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

terrifictimbersllc

UPDATE. 

I rebuilt the Zama/Stihl S100A carburetor using the recommended Zama RB-166 rebuild kit which included spring & metering valve part.  There was a clear path through the L inlet needle screw hole so I didn't take out the Welch plug. 

Unfortunately now the primer bulb only sucks up air through the top of the carb (metering valve side), instead of fuel.  This air is coming in through the main bore of the carburetor, I know because when I block it off with my thumb and finger it will then suck mostly gas with some air up from the fuel tank. Aterwards the main bore is wet with gas.

I don't have a clear picture in mind of the carburetor internals but it seems to me there must be a check valve inside the carb that is not working right or else the primer would work to prime the carb not just suck up air. 

Any suggestions? I would like to fix it if I can it's the principle of the thing.  But I can just get another carburetor over at the hardware store/Stihl dealer.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

When that happens it is the jet valve/check valve sticking. If you dont want to be too intrusive in the fix, take the carb off the blower. Keep only the suction of the primer attached to the top. immerse the carb in a soap solution and work the primer. It should such the soap solution and send it out through the exit side of the pump. Once in a way lift the carb out of the soap with only the fuel inlet immersed in the soap. If, when you work the primer now, it sucks the soap the check valve is clear and working. Now repeat all that, but this time use fuel instead of soap. This will get rid of the soap. Open both ends of the carb and use a hair dryer to get rid of any possible moisture. Put everything back and try it.
Joe

terrifictimbersllc

Thanks!  The carb is on the counter in a bag, I'll try it right now.  Are you suggesting I take apart the carb (like I did when I rebuilt it, top and bottom), to dry it out?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

Yes. The top and bottom covers and the diaphragms. Dry everything and re-assemble.
BTW. I hope your metering lever is not out of shape (too much in an upward position instead of barely clearing its well)

terrifictimbersllc

Metering level was exactly flush with straightedge across the top body of the carb, which would then be below the top of the gasket and also below the metering diaphragm.  There are pics of two configurations in the zama instructions at zamacarb, I am assuming mine is the first of them, it would be hard to imagine that the lever should be below the small recess in my carb according to the second diagram.   I did not have to bend it for it to be flush.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Here is the servicing sheet, under adjusting the metering lever height, I am under the impression mine is Figure A, although the top of the metering lever is not stepped, there is a bump for the spring on the bottom right next to the pivot.

http://www.zamacarb.com/page/disassembly_servicing_1
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

Usually it is Fig B.
Fig A is usually for bigger carbs like the ones on chainsaws.
Try Fig B
Joe

terrifictimbersllc

Much appreciate your help.   I removed the metering diaphragm and reassembled with only the gasket. In this condition, nothing is keeping the spring from pressing the lever down on the cone shaped plunger.  Despite a lot of purging in warm soapy water fully immersed (bulb sucks in and expels water with no bubbles), the bulb still easily sucks in air when the main bore is lifted out of the solution and the fuel inlet line remains immersed.

As to metering lever adjustment and whether it is A or B,  it is hard to imagine that it is as in the B diagram.   Several points in this regard.  If I view it from above and below I can see what clearly looks like a bend mark in it, especially if it is tilted just right in the light. (Consistent with A diagram).   Also if it were as in "B", and I were to bend it down so the top is flush with the top of the recessed cavity, there would remain only about 1/16" of travel left for it, the cavity is probably 3/32" deep.  And more importantly, on the top of the lever there would still  remain high points on the lever, ABOVE the top of the cavity, beginning with the spring detente, which would surely interfere with motion of the coin-sized cylinder in the metering diaphragm, when it would try to approach the end of the lever.  The B diagram shows the whole top of the lever flush or below the top of the cavity. Finally this is a 65 cc blower, the carb is S100A, the current replacement for it being S184A, if that helps.   I could take a picture with a micro lens if this were helpful.

Again thank you, it's soaking now.  I'm wondering if one of the check valves was polymeric or plastic and has fragmented as opposed to the carb being dirty.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

I checked the workshop manual just now.
Yes you are right Lever should be flush with carb body.


The only other cause would be a defective accelerator pump. If you examine the side that seats on the engine you will see a round hole with a plastic cap sealing it. That is the accelerator pump mechanism. Sometimes  it does not close properly and could cause a leak since fuel is supplied from one of the tiny holes in the metering chamber.
I have not dismantled the accelerator pump, so will be no good at it. But let me see if I can post some data on the subject for you.


joe_indi


terrifictimbersllc

Thanks again. No plastic cap over that hole although there's one on the other side .  Supposed to be a strainer there according to the parts diagram. Anyway was easy to get out the plunger, maybe too easy.  If the dealer has the plunger o-ring i might follow up on that for a couple dollars.  But I think I will come home with a new carburetor. I took out all the rebuild parts and bagged them up since they're new. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Still need help.

Installed a new S184 carburetor from the Stihl dealer, and a new spark plug.   The dealer looked up the blower and this carburetor on a Stihl sheet and had adjusted the high and low speed screws accordingly:   high, 3-1/2 turns open, low, 2 turns open. 

Took a bit of work and smoke coming out to get the blower started, but now it starts on the first pull and idles nicely.

However it won't run up to full speed.  It accelerates up to about 1/3 throttle,  running  very well,  but increasing the throttle to all the way,  it sputters and shakes and does not increase in rpms.  I tried adjusting the high speed screw both ways, it doesn't make any difference. That would be consistent with not running at full speed in the first place.  Taking off the air cleaner, no difference.  Dealer said my pickup body looked fine, that's the only thing I know to replace.  The muffler screen is clear.   My chainsaws run fine on the gas I'm using which is several months old, but it's been cold and it was non-ethanol, and I'm using the Stihl ultra oil. 

Appreciate any suggestions why my blower won't run at full speed now?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

Check the throttle stop on the carb on end of the throttle shaft that comes into contact with the idle adjustment screw. When you depress the throttle fully is this part hitting its stop? If it does not, you have play in the throttle cable. Check it at post the results. Joe

ZeroJunk

Those 4 mix ignitions can lose the advance but still run and you will swear it is a carb problem and never was to start with.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: joe_indi on February 17, 2016, 11:49:06 PM
Check the throttle stop on the carb on end of the throttle shaft that comes into contact with the idle adjustment screw. When you depress the throttle fully is this part hitting its stop? If it does not, you have play in the throttle cable. Check it at post the results. Joe
Yes it hits its stop.  When I pull the trigger all the way in, the trigger stops because a metal arm rotates CCW around until it hits another flat metal part of the carb body.  When the throttle is released, the same part returns CW until a curved part on the other side bumps against the conical metal end of the idle screw.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: ZeroJunk on February 18, 2016, 01:23:17 AM
Those 4 mix ignitions can lose the advance but still run and you will swear it is a carb problem and never was to start with.
Can you explain a bit, is this a failure in the ignition module (?)-the electrical part that is right under the main cover, in proximity with the part that the pull starter engages?

The "sputtering"  on pulling in the throttle is pretty much constant now,  but once in a while it revs cleanly to full speed, maybe 1-5% of the times I am pulling the throttle all the way in.   Before the new carb, it used to be that it would run improperly sometimes, then "clear up" and run fine for a minute or more at a time.  Then it wouldn't start at all.  Now, after replacing the carb, it starts great, idles fine, but hardly goes to proper high speed operation at all.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

pwheel

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on February 18, 2016, 08:43:42 AM
... after replacing the carb, it starts great, idles fine, but hardly goes to proper high speed operation at all.
Perhaps due for a valve adjustment after 10 years' use. I have a 4Mix FS90; when I asked the dealer tech how often the valves need to be adjusted, he said "When it starts losing power, bring it in."
Stihl MS260 Pro, MS261, MS440 x2, MS460, FS90; 1982 Power King 1614

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: pwheel on February 18, 2016, 11:43:14 AM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on February 18, 2016, 08:43:42 AM
... after replacing the carb, it starts great, idles fine, but hardly goes to proper high speed operation at all.
Perhaps due for a valve adjustment after 10 years' use. I have a 4Mix FS90; when I asked the dealer tech how often the valves need to be adjusted, he said "When it starts losing power, bring it in."
Adjusted the valves and it didn't make any difference.   Still only revs slightly before stuttering and shaking as the throttle is pulled further.

The valve clearance was probably .005 or .006 whereas the spec sheet from the dealer showed 0.004.  At least it looked like that was the recommended valve clearance, there was a picture of what looked like a valve and pusher on the far right of a sheet that showed different blowers and carb needle valve rotations and bolt torque specs.   Only the slightest turn of the nuts was required to make it bite down slightly on a 0.004 wire i happened to have.

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

HELP!   ::) ::)   9 year old Stihl BR600 blower, lightly used,  will only accelerate about 1/4 of the way before sputtering and shaking.  Starts and idles great.

Not improved if I remove the air filter.   New spark plug is sooty.

New carburetor,  clear exhaust screen, new spark plug, good fuel, throttle opens all the way, valves adjusted, primes fine.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated, I don't want to throw out this blower for something simple. 

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

4x4American

Whats it got for compression?  Was thinking rings..
Boy, back in my day..

ZeroJunk

Get one of those $20 ignition coils off of eBay and try that. If it is not the carb or valves there is not much left.

smmyb123

This sounds like a timing issue for sure. The tolerances for the valve lash on your blower is .010. If you feel like you can attempt an adjustment on this unit all you will need is a t27 torx driver and an 8mm socket or wrench. If you cannot improve the running condition with a valve adjustment then you will need to replace the ignition module, which is a pretty common issue for a blower as old as yours.

joe_indi

terrifictimbersllc, I didnt see the subsequent posts.
Before proceeding further, do a couple of easy checks.
1. Does the air delivery pipe (Elbow, hose) have any leaks? If they leak the rpm will not climb.
2. Could you try a richer setting of the carb for both H and L. Yours is a 9 year old machine and might need a bit more fuel because of some wear.
3. Chances are the jetting on your original carb and the new one may be different due to more recent emission norms (wild guess) so the new carb might be for a leaner running blower.
4. (This needs some tools) You need to remove the starter and back cover. Lock the flywheel and take out that nut in the center of the pulley. Remove the pulley. Remove the 4 screws that hold the cover of the cam wheel and cam followers, and remove the stuck cover carefully making sure the two pins remain in place.
Now wriggle the pins. Is there too much of side play?
Examine the cover. It has two holes where the ends of the pins seat. Are they round and fresh or worn or oval?
Usually the bottom pin that hold the cam followers shakes on the block and the top pin that holds the tappets shakes on the cover, both from excess wear. This wear I have experienced on older 4Mix engine brushcutters. Later models had some reinforcement done to meet this issue. I dont know, there is a chance this problem exists in your blower. The result is ever altering valve clearance and valve timing.
Similarly check the cam wheel for wear, usually in the area where the followers touch the cam lobe.
Joe

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: smmyb123 on February 20, 2016, 02:21:47 AM
This sounds like a timing issue for sure. The tolerances for the valve lash on your blower is .010. If you feel like you can attempt an adjustment on this unit all you will need is a t27 torx driver and an 8mm socket or wrench. If you cannot improve the running condition with a valve adjustment then you will need to replace the ignition module, which is a pretty common issue for a blower as old as yours.
@smmyb123 is valve lash same as valve clearance?  I adjusted the valve clearances to 0.004, it is easy for me to do.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: joe_indi on February 20, 2016, 04:54:21 AM
terrifictimbersllc, I didnt see the subsequent posts.
Before proceeding further, do a couple of easy checks.
1. Does the air delivery pipe (Elbow, hose) have any leaks? If they leak the rpm will not climb.
2. Could you try a richer setting of the carb for both H and L. Yours is a 9 year old machine and might need a bit more fuel because of some wear.
3. Chances are the jetting on your original carb and the new one may be different due to more recent emission norms (wild guess) so the new carb might be for a leaner running blower.
4. (This needs some tools) You need to remove the starter and back cover. Lock the flywheel and take out that nut in the center of the pulley. Remove the pulley. Remove the 4 screws that hold the cover of the cam wheel and cam followers, and remove the stuck cover carefully making sure the two pins remain in place.
Now wriggle the pins. Is there too much of side play?
Examine the cover. It has two holes where the ends of the pins seat. Are they round and fresh or worn or oval?
Usually the bottom pin that hold the cam followers shakes on the block and the top pin that holds the tappets shakes on the cover, both from excess wear. This wear I have experienced on older 4Mix engine brushcutters. Later models had some reinforcement done to meet this issue. I dont know, there is a chance this problem exists in your blower. The result is ever altering valve clearance and valve timing.
Similarly check the cam wheel for wear, usually in the area where the followers touch the cam lobe.
Joe
@joe_indi   Which are the air delivery pipes, and why if they leak, would that cause the problem (wouldn't they be leaking in air which is their same function)?
Turning the H screw either way substantially makes no difference.   I will look at #4.   This failure to accelerate fully and to shake and sputter when the throttle depressed was the same problem that began intermittently before I replaced the carburetor.  Now it is constant.  One more thing I will check is to run it without the pickup body and without the muffler screen although these seem ok.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

ZeroJunk

And, when you get through with all of that you can replace the ignition and get it going again.

joe_indi

terrifictimbersllc what I mean by air delivery pipes were the pipes from the fan (SEE THE DIAGRAM) There is some resistance in the pipes. If there is a serious leak the resistance is reduced. This causes more air to be drawn in by the fan, which exerts load on the engine causing  the rpm to drop. To see this happen while the blower is idling block the air flow at the outlet with your palm. The rpm will increase. Try the same at full throttle, again the rpm will go up.
Quote from: ZeroJunk on February 20, 2016, 10:40:53 AM
And, when you get through with all of that you can replace the ignition and get it going again.
. I would have agreed with you, but similar symptoms occur when the pins' foundation wear out or the cam lobe wears out. So wouldnt it be better to just check pins and cam wheel before paying for a new ignition module. Joe

ZeroJunk

Yes. I guess I have chased these problems on the BR and FS 4 mixes with it turning out to be the ignition to the point I may be a little overly suspicious of them.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: smmyb123 on February 20, 2016, 02:21:47 AM
This sounds like a timing issue for sure. The tolerances for the valve lash on your blower is .010. If you feel like you can attempt an adjustment on this unit all you will need is a t27 torx driver and an 8mm socket or wrench. If you cannot improve the running condition with a valve adjustment then you will need to replace the ignition module, which is a pretty common issue for a blower as old as yours.
2009 Service manual, dealer, says valve clearance should be 0.1 mm.  0.1/25.4 mm/inch = 0.004inches. 

@4x4american  Thought I could check the compression but this spark plug hole is too small for my gauge.   It starts on first pull, idles and runs at partial throttle perfectly. 
@joe_indi   The air delivery pipes have no visible problems and blocking the outlet does not influence its ability to run faster at all so I'm guessing it's not that.

New pickup body and checked the ignition module flywheel clearance which is perfect about 0.009 inches.   

Still chokes and sputters trying to rev to higher RPM. Once in a while it will run at full speed for a few seconds.  Seems so much like a fuel problem. Turning H screw either way makes no difference unless almost closed then it wants to shut down. 

Will try a cheap ignition module next before taking it apart again.  Stihl one is $70.   
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

A cheap coil may not work.
But you could check whether the grey market has a cheap Honda brushcutter coil. That should work, but you will need to widen the holes for the fixing screws with a 4mm round file.
Alternatively why not take it to your dealer and ask him to try it with an alternative coil from another blower?
If it works you replace the coil, if it does not, start from square one again.
Also, I have seen brand new carbs fail, fresh out of the box, Stihl carbs for 4Mix, mostly brushcutter carbs.
So in case your coil experiment does not work and if everything else is good, check the carb once more.
Check the oil seals and engine pan for leaks.
It took me 6 months to repair one of the first 4Mix engines that I came across in 2002.
They (4Mix) can try your patience to the limit.
In the case of mine it was a defective ignition coil which had the starter kick back each time it was pulled.
I had new engine from which I kept switching parts. I never thought of the coil because on testing it gave off a healthy spark. But after a couple of months I tried the coil just like that and it started at the first shot!
But that coil too failed. I found a worthy substitute in an Oleomac GS820 chainsaw. An to this day that brushcutter runs on that Oleomac coil. I have it with me to this day since the owner exchanged it for a new brushcutter after the first month.
So, in your place I would first pull it to bits, reassemble it and try it once more. If you have no luck, try it with a different carb and coil from a working blower, if you can get hold of one. It would be possible if you have a cooperative dealer. (like me  :D)
Joe

terrifictimbersllc

I have a 4mix brush cutter , maybe has the same coil?

How do I post a sound file? Might help to hear it?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

joe_indi

Your brushcutter flywheel rotates anti-clockwise. In your blower it rotates clockwise. I don't know whether you would get a spark. But we won't know until we have tried it. It just might work. But you will need to check whether mounting screws can be fitted or not, and also whether the coil can be aligned to the magnets, and whether the HT lead is long enough. In your place I would try the BR600 coil on the brushcutter. Save a lot of effort that way

terrifictimbersllc

It might be fixed!   I put hose clamps on either end of the impulse line, and was able to run it at full speed for about 5 minutes.  A huge difference! 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

sawguy21

 ;D That happens so many times, the small simple things easily get overlooked. Good for you.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

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