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Blade sharpening tips

Started by dhp3228, January 28, 2016, 08:03:42 PM

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dhp3228

What tips will give a person for sharpening blades. I'm using an older WoodMizer auto sharpener. I've got it set now where it sharpens the full face of the blade and down into the gullets and starts up the back side. I had to readjust the hook angle on the grinder but I think I've got it right. Anyways after deburing the blades I put one on the mill and cut some White oak slabs with no water in the lubricator. The saw dust was dry and ultra fine.

So my questions are these:

1. Am I grinding enough?

2. Is white oak saw dust very fine or is that a sign that I ground the blade incorrectly?

3. Do y'all use a liquid base lubricant only when pitch and tar builds up on the blade or is in general wise to just run it at all times?

4. Any other words of advice on sharpening blades?


Kbeitz

When you get dust the first thing I do is to increase carriage speed.
Making dust can also dull your blade because it's rubbing not cutting.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ox

It looks to me like the hook angle is negative something instead of positive something.  It should be 4,7,9,10°, not -1,-3,-4° or whatever.  Tip of the tooth looks sharp enough and the gullet looks good but it also looks like it didn't grind up the back of the tooth, either.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

drobertson

Looks like the hook angle is a bit shy, but white oak is a tough wood and can make some fine dust.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

dhp3228

Thanks for the tip about the dust. I'll post a side profile of the hook to see if it is a negative angle.

homesteader1972

I am by no means a pro at sharpening, but can share what little I have learned in the past couple of years sharpening my own blades. I also have an older sharpener, so check it out well as I had a few issues with mine.

1- Make sure the arms that support the blade are level with the clamp so as the blade indexes it is always flat.
2- Make sure the clamp is clean so the blade lays flat and that it clamps down well so it does not move any while sharpening.
3-Insure the bearings in the motor are tight and there is no play with the grinding wheel.
4-The bearings where the motor/grinding wheel pivot are tight and there is no play there.

As far as sharpening goes, I'd recommend grinding lightly, and making more passes until you get the hang of it. Pay attention to shaping the stone correctly. You should lightly brush the face of the tooth, then the gullet and up the back of the tooth. As your shaping the stone, shape it, watch it grind a couple teeth, stop it and adjust it until you get it right. It may take a while to get the hang of it, but once you do it will be easy. Keep an eye on the stone and redress it every so often as the area that sharpens the face of the tooth will wear and in due time can grind a negative (or at least lessor) hook angle.

Also, just making shiny spots does not mean the band is sharp. One of the best tips I learned was here on the forum, and is to use a magnifying glass and looking at the tip of the tooth and insuring it was actually sharp. Using light, you can see it reflect off dull areas. I don't remember who it was, but maybe they will chime in and post a pic or link to it. But doing this will insure your band is sharp, and once I started looking at them under magnification it really made the difference.

Lastly, check the set every so often. Its not nearly as complicated, but equally important.

I also write on my bands with a sharpie when the band comes off the mill. The hook angle and any notes on it as well. If I hit a rock, a nail, if I need to check set because its leaving a mark or pitching up, I'll write on the band so I can fix it, and when I use it again I will know it was a problem the last time.

Hope this helps.

Woodmizer LT40HD20G

YellowHammer

Quote from: homesteader1972 on January 28, 2016, 09:01:47 PM
Also, just making shiny spots does not mean the band is sharp. One of the best tips I learned was here on the forum, and is to use a magnifying glass and looking at the tip of the tooth and insuring it was actually sharp. Using light, you can see it reflect off dull areas. I don't remember who it was, but maybe they will chime in and post a pic or link to it. But doing this will insure your band is sharp, and once I started looking at them under magnification it really made the difference.


 
I use a $20 lighted optiscope, available at any drugstore, used by doctors and nurses for looking into ears, eyes and noses.  It has a light, and a powerful magnifier. 
This is a dull tooth, still some rounded corners on the teeth, a little blue from burning, needs another pass or two.


This is a sharp tooth, sharp chisel tip. When the teeth look like this, they will cut better than new.


 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

VictorH

Yellowhammer - learned more on what a sharp blade looks like in those two pics than I have reading several threads on the subject.  Thx

Kbeitz

It's been said here before that i dont know what I'm talking about so take or leave my info.
On positive rake It's not the very tip of the point that does the cutting but it does need to
be sharp to start the cut.
The higher the rake degree the less the point cuts.The peel or curl of the cut wood only touches
the gullet of the blade after the start.
This is why it's important to keep the profile of the gullet and not sharpen the top backside of the tooth.

Just my $0.02



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

kelLOGg

Quote from: Kbeitz on January 28, 2016, 08:07:37 PM
Making dust can also dull your blade because it's rubbing not cutting.

That's interesting. Since my mill is only 16HP it probably cuts too slowly in many cases, esp with 24+ inch logs. I do have to sharpen rather frequently. I doubt there is very much I can do about it except go to a bigger engine.

It would really be interesting to me and perhaps others for someone to post a pic of the sawdust when cutting too slow and cutting fast, both with a sharp blade. Maybe under magnification, too.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

Kbeitz

Quote from: kelLOGg on January 29, 2016, 06:56:28 AM
Quote from: Kbeitz on January 28, 2016, 08:07:37 PM
Making dust can also dull your blade because it's rubbing not cutting.

That's interesting. Since my mill is only 16HP it probably cuts too slowly in many cases, esp with 24+ inch logs. I do have to sharpen rather frequently. I doubt there is very much I can do about it except go to a bigger engine.

It would really be interesting to me and perhaps others for someone to post a pic of the sawdust when cutting too slow and cutting fast, both with a sharp blade. Maybe under magnification, too.
Bob

Sharp blade should get curls of wood. Dull blades rubs small dust like chunks off.
More positive rake for soft woods. More negative rake for hard woods.
This works the same for cutting metals with machines like a lathe.
Hard metals will just break the point off a cutter if the rake is to steep so it needs to be more blunt.
Softer metals like alum can cut faster with a cutter with more rake with out damaging the cutter.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

dhp3228


dhp3228

I have posted a brand new 10* hook blade and an older resharpened blade. Will y'all please advise? I've checked the older blade with an angle finder and it shows to be straight up so I believe I need to adjust the hook angle on the wheel?

Thanks for yalls wisdom I appreciate it.

Sawmill Man

  maybe time to dress the stone instead of changing hook angle
"I could have sworn I went over that one with the metal detector".

elk42

I'm with Sawmill Man dress your grind rock first.
Machinist Retired, Lt15 WM 25 HP, Stihl 044, Stihl 311, Kubota M2900w/FEL, KUBOTA L4800 w/FEL,
Lincoln Ranger 10,000, stihl 034,

YellowHammer

A new or well sharpened tooth will resemble a well sharpened chisel or any well sharpened tool, because, in essence, that's what it is.  There are lots of ways to sharpen a chisel, but here are my suggestions.  Dull corners, dull edge, etc limit initial penetration and chip formation.  It's been my experience that a well sharpened and set band will actually cut better than a new one, so just keep working it, we are here to help. 

It's a good idea, as folks have mentioned, to check to make sure the tooth face side of the rock is flat.  If there is a taper or a slight angle, it will cause the negative hook angle.  Some times it means taking off a lot of rock and turning it into dust to get it dressed properly. 

Then check the angle of the machine itself to make sure it's descending at the correct angle. 

Then make sure the band is not slipping or sliding in the clamps, if it can, it will slide away from the rock as its being ground, and cause an incorrect hook angle.  This is especially true if doing a heavy face grind. 

Also, it looks from your previous and these pictures that either the rock is profiled too deep, or the gullet is still too shallow, or the cam is a different profile because the band is not getting a full profile grind.  A full profile grind dresses the back of the tooth to give it the proper penetration relief, (which in this photo looks a tad flat), it dresses the gullet of the band to remove micro cracks that may be forming, and then it dresses, lightly, the face of the tooth to true it up and set the correct angle.

I also notice that in the crease between the gullet and tooth face, there is a little bluing and streaking, which is an indication of grinding too hard or the rock grit being clogged, etc.  The area where the metal is blued becomes harder and has a reduced flex life, so is a place where band failures may propagate.  Even a little streaking or hardening in the gullet will lead to eventual fatigue failure.  That is fixed by doing a light finish pass, once the geometry is to your liking.   

When I first got my sharpener (a Cats Claw) and was trying to set it up correctly (nothing is ever easy) I placed a new band, such as you have, in the sharpener, turned the grind rock off, placed a bright light behind the the sharpener so I could really see what was going on, and turned the feed on dead slow.  I watched the rock grinding surface try to follow the full profile of the new band.  Well, it didn't, so I then spent some quiet time tweaking things both on the sharpener as well as the rock profile, until it just kissed the entire profile. Once I had everything set up, I turned on the grind rock, dropped it down about a gnats hair, and things got good after that.
If you can get the exact same profile on a dull band to mirror that of your new band, it will cut.
Of course, somewhere there it will need to be set, or at least check for set. 

I hope these tips help.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

homesteader1972

Quote from: VictorH on January 29, 2016, 02:32:54 AM
Yellowhammer - learned more on what a sharp blade looks like in those two pics than I have reading several threads on the subject.  Thx

X2X2X2! When I first started trying to resharpen my own blades, I followed all the directions and advise all gave the best I could but it was still hit and miss on sharpening. I planned to give up for a while and send them off to be resharpened, but seeing those pics of a sharp tooth vs a dull tooth was game changer for sure. Now I know a band is sharp when it goes on the mill. Mill better wood, keep more $$$ in the pocket.

Thanks YH!
Woodmizer LT40HD20G

dhp3228

Thanks fellasyall advice isn't falling on deaf ears. Keep it coming thanks alot

4x4American

I went to the local rite aid and asked for a lighted optiscope, they looked at me like I had 9 eyes and a 3 dollar bill!
Boy, back in my day..

red

Otoscope there are many inexpensive online
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

YellowHammer

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Kbeitz

300 listings for Otoscope on E-bay... Anything from $17,000 to $2.00
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

terrifictimbersllc

A 10x hand lens or loupe is great too. There's $30 one from amateur geologist made in Belarus that is outstanding. Doubles to look at end grain.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

4x4American

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on January 29, 2016, 08:04:20 PM
A 10x hand lens or loupe is great too. There's $30 one from amateur geologist made in Belarus that is outstanding. Doubles to look at end grain.


Where can that be had?

Boy, back in my day..

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: 4x4American on January 29, 2016, 09:20:03 PM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on January 29, 2016, 08:04:20 PM
A 10x hand lens or loupe is great too. There's $30 one from amateur geologist made in Belarus that is outstanding. Doubles to look at end grain.


Where can that be had?
http://www.amateurgeologist.com/belomo-10x-triplet-loupe-magnifier.html

p.s the 20x one is handy too but much more difficult to use because of a tight focal length range and narrow field of view.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

dhp3228

I redressed the wheel today.

        1. After redress the wheel on the Wood Mizer automatic sharpener there is an adjustment screw with a wing it jamb nut. Is this used to lower the wheel down after wheel dressings?

After adjusting that screw and the tooth travel and the gullet depth adjustment ( not in that order) didn't realize that maybe that screw on top lower the whole thing thus letting you regained the whole profile deeper. I got the machine adjusted and this is what I produced.

I still need to find a lighted magnifier but I think this is much closer to being what I need.

What are yalls thoughts?

  

  

  

 

homesteader1972

You may have an older sharpener like mine. If its like mine the adjusting screw with wing nut isn't used. Just run it up out of the way and don't worry about it. The older ones (IIRC), came w/o a cam and only sharpened the face of the tooth. The adjustment screw you mentioned was used to control the depth. When it was converted to using a cam the screw became obsolete as the cam and its adjustments control the depth of the grind. Post a pic of it to see if its an older one.
Woodmizer LT40HD20G

YellowHammer

That's looks a lot better. 8)
Is the tooth angle matching the new band?  I like to use a cheap machinist square, from Home Depot or such to get a very accurate measurement of the hook angle. 
It seems small, but there is a big difference in cutting performance between just a few degrees between 4 and 10. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Ox

^ x2 what YellowHammer said, word for word.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

dhp3228

Thanks fellas! Yes the hooks are matching. The travel between the gullet and going up the back of the tooth are slightly different but everything else seems to be very very close. I'm going to resharpen a blade at this current setting and see how it goes.

Someone stated that after 8 or 10 bands that I'll need to redress the wheel. Can I tell by looking at the wheel when I need to do this or just do it? 

customsawyer

I lightly dress the wheel after every blade. This keeps the profile more accurate and the grit of the stone clean and not burning.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head Pinheiro planer, 30" double surface Cantek planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

dhp3228

 

 

This is the sharpener I'm using. Is the top adjustment screw used to lower the head into the whole profile as the grinding wheel wears due to being used?

Cutting Edge

Quote from: customsawyer on January 31, 2016, 04:45:38 PM
I lightly dress the wheel after every blade. This keeps the profile more accurate and the grit of the stone clean and not burning.

x 2  Pay especially close attention to the left corner of the grinding wheel.  That small radius does a significant amount of grinding, hence, wears the most in comparison to the rest of the wheel.

Quote from: dhp3228 on January 31, 2016, 08:17:13 PM
Is the top adjustment screw used to lower the head into the whole profile as the grinding wheel wears due to being used?

No, the adjustment is to lower the head to grind the profile deeper is located to the right and below the cam itself.

Your sharpener is one of the early versions converted to automatic.  The knob you I believe you are referring to (located above the grinding motor to the left of the guard) serves no purpose now and could actually be removed entirely to eliminate any confusion.

"Winning an argument isn't everything, as long as you are heard and understood" - W.S.


Cutting Edge Saw Service, LLC -
- Sharpening Services
- Portable/Custom Milling and Slabbing
- On-Site Sawmill Maintenance/Repair Services

Factory Direct Kasco WoodMaxx Blades
Ph- (304) 878-3343

Remle

Seeing the blue tips on your teeth it might be time to add fluid to the tray to cool the blade while grinding. ;) ;)

homesteader1972

I cant tell from the angle of the pic, but like mine, it may not have bearings where it pivots. If not, it has allen bolts that have to be periodically tightened to keep out the play. My sharpener had play, but I didnt realize it for some time. So, what I do now is just check it for play every sharpening session. I have only had to tighten them once in the last year. I use the WM sharpening fluid in mine, it last quite a while and I reuse it some too. I put a few magnets in the pan to collect metal, and if you drain the fluid in a bucket when your done the grit will settle to the bottom. Make sure the clamp is always doing it job. Your bands are looking good, but you will really know when you go to use them.
Woodmizer LT40HD20G

Stephen

In an image above, looks like the blade push rod is up-side-down on the cam.
This is a common problem and discussed here before:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,72896.msg1107766.html#msg1107766
1994 WoodMizer LT40G18. 69 acres mixed wood. 1952 ford tractor, Norse 290 winch, studed Norse ice chains. 45-66DT Fiat.

bearman

after reading this thread I have to ask a few questions to all. I have sawn red pine and other pines/spruce with a old foley/belsaw in the past. I have now gotten smarter i'm told by others as I got rid of that and bought a norwood lumbermate 2000, with all that said, i'm going to build a timber frame shop out of hard maple since I have way to many in my way for a horse pasture.
cutting hardwood verses softwood and the types of blades used is the question. I received both types of blades from the previous owner of the mill I was told it wouldn't matter what blade I use on the maple.
should I just use hardwood blades all the time and when I cut some basswood/poplur softwood it wouldn't matter. 

I did get a sharpner with the saw but was going to have them sharpened by the amish around here as they charge 5 bucks a blade. this way I can keep cutting and worrying about screwing up the blades as I have never done it before. 

any thoughts

Ox

Basically, what you're calling hardwood blades would have less tooth angle or hook.  This will work fine in softer woods.  It's more of a speed thing and since I don't think you're in production it shouldn't matter and will cut fine.  The only problem might be the different set to the teeth.  Some people use less set in hardwoods and need more in softwoods because of the springy nature of the fibers.  I use 7° for everything right now, from black locust both green and seasoned to red pine.  I'm thinking of experimenting more with the 4° as I've heard from a few guys that use only this angle and love them.  I don't care how fast it cuts, I want flat and accurate lumber!  Just throw the hardwood blades on and try it - you'll know pretty much immediately if they'll work or not.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

bearman

thanks OX
that being said I guess I should tell the amish to set them at 7 and maybe have some set at 4 and try em to see what the difference would be. your correct that it's not a production operation here just my own barn/shop going up. still I can't waste to much time cutting as the timber frame will eat up the rest of the new York summer here.

thanks again,

4x4American

Their sharpner might not have stops at 4° or 7° just know that before you ask.  Another thing, you need more HP to pull a 4° blade, how much hp do you have?


EDIT: I stand corrected, you don't need more HP to pull a 4° blade.  That is an old wives tale.
Boy, back in my day..

Chuck White

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, bearman.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

DMcCoy

I'm with Remle.  My understanding is blue tips have the the temper taken out, making them soft.  I just added a coolant pump to my grinder to solve this problem.

bearman

Thanks 4x4  i'll make sure to ask that question when i'm there, The Hp on the norwood is a 20 hp Honda.

thanks Chuck, i'm an old USAF firefighter. stay warm up there.

beenthere

You also might ask if they have a sharpening machine or if they use a dremel tool..   ;D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Banjo picker

Seems the term set is getting mixed up with hook.   That's not near enough set.  When OX said he used a blade with 7 deg. he is talking about hook not set.  Banjo

Quote from: bearman on February 03, 2016, 09:08:48 PM
thanks OX
that being said I guess I should tell the amish to set them at 7 and maybe have some set at 4 and try em to see what the difference would be.

Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

4x4American

Quote from: Banjo picker on February 04, 2016, 10:10:37 PM
Seems the term set is getting mixed up with hook.   That's not near enough set.  When OX said he used a blade with 7 deg. he is talking about hook not set.  Banjo

Quote from: bearman on February 03, 2016, 09:08:48 PM
thanks OX
that being said I guess I should tell the amish to set them at 7 and maybe have some set at 4 and try em to see what the difference would be.


Well technically, if he set them at 7, that'd be waayyy too much set! :D I think that the tooth would break off :D  I set my blades right now at .025" that seems to work the best for what I'm currently sawring.
Boy, back in my day..

Ox

Yep - I set all my blades at .025 as well, for all woods.  It's working fine for me.  I realize it's a bit too much for hardwoods, but you'll have that.  The last thing I want is different blades with different specs hanging all over the place.  I like a do-all blade and a .025 set with 7° tooth angle is the ticket so far.  I'm looking forward to playing around with more 4° this year in the red pine to see if I can get through the knot rings with less problems.  Not bad getting through them now, just want to see if I can get even better!
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

bearman

So then I am assuming the degrees is from the tip of the tooth to the gullet?

ii would ask the amish what they are running in their bandsaws. some or most are cutting soft hemlock,larch,white/red pine but there are others cutting hardwoods. most of them use the same guy sharping for all of them.

boy I glad I didn't try this with the norwood sharpner/setter I got even if it is brand new in the box.   

Ox

Yes, the degree measurement is from the tip of the tooth to where it starts to round out into the radius of the gullet.  Basically, it's the amount of forward lean of the tooth.  The set is the measurement of the teeth side to side if you're looking straight down on the blade from above.  You'll see one tooth leaning left, one tooth straight up and down, then one tooth leaning right and repeat.  The set in the teeth allow clearance for the body of the blade to pass through the wood.  It's always better to have too much set than not enough.  If not enough set, the blade will heat up, lose tension and all sorts of weird things will start to happen.  If you have them sharpened at 7° and set at .025, they'll cut anything you need, in general.  There's always exceptions, but this should work well for you.  It's a good all around blade to start with.  If the sharpening guy is competent, you should be able to ask for a do-all blade and he should be able to give you something close to what has been mentioned.  Keep us posted!
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Chuck White

Yes, hook (degrees) is the amount that the point of the tooth tip forward!

Set is measured in 1,000th of an inch and it is the tooth bent left & right, then the 3rd tooth is normally straight, no bend.

Most seem to set their blades at .025"-.030"!

I think the most common hook (degrees) was 10°, but there are a lot of different hooks available now.

Hope I'm not confusing you!  ;)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

terrifictimbersllc

Attached is a page of blade use specifications from the Woodmizer manual on thin kerf blades.   This may be dated I have it from approx 2009.

It recommends sets ranging from 0.030" to 0.016"  depending on the thickness of the blade, and range of hardness of the wood (soft to medium to hard/frozen has decreasing set recommendation)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Kbeitz

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on February 06, 2016, 10:10:28 AM
Attached is a page of blade use specifications from the Woodmizer manual on thin kerf blades.   This may be dated I have it from approx 2009.

It recommends sets ranging from 0.030" to 0.016"  depending on the thickness of the blade, and range of hardness of the wood (soft to medium to hard/frozen has decreasing set recommendation)

I think every saw mill is different. I found that my mill works best set at .012
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

bearman

well this all makes more sense to me as I think of the old hand saws and my circular blade mill.  thanks for all the responses as everyone's opinions do help guide me and others through things.
the sharpener I received with the mill didn't have the dremel tool so I figured it's better too send them out and wait till I get going on the mill before I start to monkey with my own blades in the future. but all this info will help me.

gmmills

  dhp3228,
        Your sharpener is a very early model. Now that you are aware of the depth knob on the top of the head is not applicable any longer, the next issue to look at is the old cam.  There is a very high probability that the cam you have will not properly match the 10/30 tooth profile. That cam may only produce a somewhat flat gullet no matter how you dress the grinding wheel. If this is the case, call WM and purchase a new cam for the 10/30 profile. Very few of you are aware of the fact that some of the first WM blades had a flat style gullet. Your original cam may be designed for these blades.

         
          The amount of set that is optimal for a blade is directly related to the density and grain texture of wood being sawn. The brand of mill, homemade or factory built, has no relevance to the amount of set that a blade needs. 


           Small hp mills will pull a 4 deg blade without any issues. If I owned a mill with under 20 HP I would use nothing but 4 deg blades.
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

pineywoods

Yeah, them real old models were set up for 13 deg rake angle and a flat bottom gullet. Worked just fine until bigger power plants started shipping. More power means more sawdust, hence the need for deeper gullets. My sharpener came with the old 13 degree cam. I worked on it a bit with a hand held grinder and came up with a close enough 10 degree profile. I'm working on another cam to use with the rixsaw cbn 10 deg wheel. Different cam plus some other tweaks..
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

pa_of_6

I have found that setting prior to sharpening gives you a better cutting blade.
It allows for the cutting surface of the set tooth to be square with the band instead of leaning out.
(also it is important that the blade is flat...cannot guide a rocking chair...)

Stephen1

Quote from: 4x4American on February 03, 2016, 10:21:38 PM
Their sharpner might not have stops at 4° or 7° just know that before you ask.  Another thing, you need more HP to pull a 4° blade, how much hp do you have?


EDIT: I stand corrected, you don't need more HP to pull a 4° blade.  That is an old wives tale.
I was told by WM Canada this summer when cutting ash that I did not have the horsepower to run 4 degree. I have 24 horse Onan. Maybe Marty Parson can weigh in here. I might have old wives up here in Canada.  ;D I have been  using 10 degree for a few years and was given 9 for the ash I was having problems with. It worked quite nicely, I was quite suprised that with 1 degree difference, that it really worked. :) I now have 9 and 10.
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

4x4American

Best thing I've found is to experiment yourself and see what works for your particular situation
Boy, back in my day..

Ox

Stephen1 - that's pish posh.  I have only 13hp and I've run 4° blades and like them.  Maybe they're talking production speeds or something, but for my and my manual mill with no production numbers to deal with they work nicely.  In fact, I'm seriously considering running 4° exclusively.  I'll experiment more this coming season.  Your Onan will pull a 4° blade with no problems, in my opinion.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

landscraper

My LT35 has 25hp and I run 4deg for all hardwoods, no issues whatsoever.  White/red oak, hickory, locust, maybe a little slower than 10deg in softwood but not 50% or anything dramatic like that. 
Firewood is energy independence on a personal scale.

Ox

Yeah, somebody was telling Stephen1 some fairy tales.  Hopefully he sees this post again and can realize they may not know what they're talking about.  But he did say it was WoodMizer Canada, so what gives?  They're such a good company.  Maybe somebody just had a brain fart that day...
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

4x4American

I originally heard it from a couple different WM reps, it won't do to mention who. I've never ran any mill with an engine smaller than 35hp so I was just going by what I was told from a trusted source.  Search around you can read it in different spots here on the forum too.
Boy, back in my day..

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