kiln construction questions

[xlogger]

Finally my man that going to help build the kiln said he was going to start this week (hoping here). I have all the materials and insulation ready except for front door, which we are going to stand back and take a look on best way after building the frame. Going to have questions for anyone that has a Nyle 53 like Glenn, WDH and YH that has already been giving me advise.
1. I understand the vents need top be on the far corners front and back 2 ft off floor and 2 ft off wall in back and then 2 ft off ceiling and wall in front. WDH you said you did not use power vents and I didn't order them. But in case I change my mind later and add them I was thinking about going ahead and put in wiring in the wall. Would 12 gauge be about correct? I have plenty of that.
2. I'm going to add an heat exchanger from my OWB for heat if needed. Not sure if I should put it high or low in kiln, would it make any differences? I'm got to find an high temp thermostat, I found one awhile back on computer got to look for it again, any ideas best place to find one?
Any suggestions before we start? Thanks for the help so far from some of you that I talked to. I'm sure I'll have more questions to come.
Ricky

[WDH]

12 guage should be fine.

Remember, the compressor will not operate above about 133 degrees because of a high temp shut off, so you do not need extra heat while operating the kiln normally, however, it will speed up the initial heat up since the compressor will not run until the dry bulb temp reaches 80 degrees.  It will also speed up the sterilization of the load at the end where you turn off the compressor and need to get the temp to 150 degrees.

Aside from the initial heat up and the sterilization, I have problems with too much heat versus not enough.  The extra fans that you are installing will also add heat from the motors.   

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

OWB?  My wife said I was an OWB years ago...one wild boy...years and years ago.  Now she means Old Worn-out Boy. : :D 8)

1.  You need vents on both sides of the circulating fans, because these fans also make the vents work.  However, if the vents have their own fans (power vents), then the location can be anywhere, but still putting them on both sides of the circulating fans will be most efficient.

Using power vents is seldom necessary.  Actually, the volume of air vented is the same with or without power vents.  It is only with under-powered DH, small vents and/or with rapidly drying wood that high venting rates when using a power vent will help drying speed.  But the energy used is quite large and, being electric, is quite expensive.  So, having the right size compressor for the quantity of lumber eliminates the need for power vents.  EXCEPT, sometimes the heat from the compressor and circulating fan motors results in too much heat in the kiln, so we need to exhaust this hear, especially in the summertime when it is warm outside.  The closer the vents are to the compressor motor, the better.  In fact, with larger DH units, the compressor motors are outside the kiln.

Vents were usually on the roof, years ago, but in the past 25 years have been moved to the walls by many manufacturers.  The location is not critical, except that they are on both sides of the circulating fans if they are not powered separately.

2.  Because the fan motor size is small, you do not need a high amperage circuit.  So, I would think 12 ga is fine, which is rated at 20 amps even at high temperatures.

You can find industrial components for just about anything at Grainger.com.

[4x4American]

OWB = outdoor wood boiler  ;)

[scsmith42]

Ricky, frequently in our area there will be problems with high temps early in the drying process during the hot summer months.  I use my vents more to evacuate excess hot air and bring the temps down versus excess humidity.  Mine are on opposite sides (and opposite ends) of the chamber in order to promote mixing cooler air across the chamber, and they are located high on the walls where the hottest air accumulates.  If I had it to do over again I'd follow Gene's advice and place them closer to the compressor where there is more airflow.

[xlogger]

 

 
finally got started today.
going to rain tomorrow so probably not working on it.

[samandothers]

Kinda weird seeing the NC postings with snow.   Nice looking start to your kiln.

[Tree Dan]

Wow that was a good days work there...looking good!
Runnung that new L-53 and your solar kiln will give you a fast supply of lumber.
Whats the floor dementions?
Any way, nice start!

Dan

[WDH]

Looking good, Ricky!

[Glenn1]

Ricky, It does look very good.  You are getting some excellent advice so I will sit on the side lines to read and learn. 

[xlogger]

The kiln size is 14 long by 10 deep. It was a good days work (5 1/2 hours) but with no credit for me on that. I had a local contractor and his two helpers do it for me. I was doing other things but maybe handed a board or two once in awhile.
That snow was about half sleet, I'll be glad to see it go.
Yes Glenn, I am listening to the advise also. For sure I'll need more when I start drying.

[xlogger]

 

 
Got back to work on kiln today, they are moving along good. Going to finish insulation inside tomorrow and put up board and batton. Next we have to figure out best way for doors. Going to have two seven ft doors. So now it my turn to install the unit and do the wiring.

[WDH]

Soon you will be drying in style.

[YellowHammer]

Looks good. 

[xlogger]

We got everything done except the front two doors. Getting the hinges and what I need for them this weekend. Question on the walk in door. I was thinking about just putting a 2" foam board and a 1" attached to the inside of the door. This would only give me a R value of 15, and I could not make it tight around the edges and door knob. What have anyone of you done that might be better than that.
I have an R value of 34 in walls and 45 in ceiling. The front swinging door is going to have either 25 or 35, going to look at it after we put it up to see if we can add the  extra 10.

[YellowHammer]

Whatever you do, it will be extremely important to have pressure tight door seals, especially using the kilns electric heating elements for sterilization heat.  Electricity is expensive and any leaks will slow down the ramp in time and cost money in lost heat. 
Since the internal air circulation system is designed to force air through the stack of lumber, it is lower pressure on the suction side of the kiln, and high pressure on the exhaust and downstream baffle and fan deck side.  That's how it makes its circulation loop through the wood.  Air goes loops from the high pressure exhaust out of the kiln, through the wood, and back into the suction side of the deck and kiln. 
Problem is, if there is a leak on the suction side of the kiln, either vents, doors, caulk, then the kiln will actually suck outside air in at a fairly brisk rate, and it will also push internal kiln air out, if there are any leaks on the pressure side of the kiln.  So if it's cold outside, and you'll be actively pulling cold air into a kiln while trying to get it to high temps. 
Leaks also make hitting temperature set points along the drying curve difficult. 

Seems counter intuitive when vents are installed, what all the effort to plug any leaks, but they are closely controlled.

[xlogger]

The doors are air tight, just wanted to up the R value as much as possible.
When it comes time for heat, I got the heat from the OWB for that so electric is not a big cost (I hope).
Do you have any idea how much amps the unit pulls just running the DH along but not the heater? I do have a 20 amp breaker just for it and the other fans will have their own breaker.

[xlogger]

Got the doors up yesterday, what a pain. Going to get more insulation today for them and hope to finish up construction today. I got the underground insulated pipe from OWB over to back of kiln and going to run electric over today also. Then ready to install heat exchanger and Nyle unit. I'm going to try to box in the hot water pipe from the OWB on back of kiln into a box that the controller is in to keep it from dropping down to under freezing. I know I will not be needing the heat exchanger all the time but I'm going to hook up a thermostat control to cut it on and off as needed with a zone valve

   but the water will still be flowing threw the pipes all the time.  Waiting on trailer door cam clamp for front doors to come from Amazon. Would like to think I'll be finish all by weekend but I'm sure something else will come up.

[WDH]

Doors look great.

[pine]

Waiting on trailer door cam clamp for front doors to come from Amazon.

Are the cam clamps you ordered these:
"B2159C Buyers Cam Action Door Lock Kit"
B2159C Buyers Cam Action Door Lock Kit
or something else.  I am interested in which ones you got and how happy you are with them after you have them installed. 

Let us know please.

[YellowHammer]

Yes, those are the style to use.  They are perfect for kiln doors.  Cheap, effective, simple.  Mine have lasted perfectly for years.

The kiln looks great.  I'd recommend having a system of stops or latches so the doors don't catch the wind when they are open and slam against the hinges, damaging them.  Been there done that, more than once.

[xlogger]

Pine, yes they are what I order but will not be here till Friday.
Robert I was thinking about that, how did you set yours up, maybe you could take a pic if possible.
Didn't finish yesterday, just work on doors late in the day. I spend most of the day getting materials and working on electric. On the kiln unit it says hook to a 30 amp breaker but on instructions said 20 amp and I believe that what Stan and some of you told me. I only have 30 amps going out to a breaker box that will supply the Nyle, but also on the same box I have my solar kiln on it also, which probably takes 10 amps or less. With my heat exchanger I don't see using the heat from the Nyle any at all but if I had to I'd probably have to cut off the DH in the solar kiln.

[Denny]

Hey guys does anyone have any suggestions for caulking brand/type ?  I have found some heat bleeding over from one kiln to the next along a few seams inside the kilns and I also have a few areas on the outside of my kilns that could use a fresh bead of caulk.  Any suggestions ? 

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

I have seen butyl rubber latex caulk used.

[Tree Dan]

X-Logger...this is what we call Geeeter done! 8)
You are doing great with this upgrade
Useing all good materials, and great advice from the boys here on the site.
Great idea with the Outdoor burner...burn all your scraps in there and get the heat up ;D