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What is a "slab?"

Started by GeneWengert-WoodDoc, January 24, 2016, 08:24:34 AM

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GeneWengert-WoodDoc

A recent posting used the term "slab" and it seemed that the word had quite a few different meanings.  Perhaps, or maybe not, we can come to a common meaning on this forum so that we can communicate with each other more clearly and accurately.

Traditionally, within the industry 40 years ago or so, a slab only meant the piece of wood that was produced when initially sawing a log face.  As such, there would be one rounded face where the bark had been (or still was) attached, and one sawn face.  It was not edged.  The main value was for fuel, because any lumber from a sawmill required two sawn parallel faces.  At the mill I managed, we had a slab saw that cut these slabs into shorter lengths, like 18", for use as firewood.


So, what is the difference between a piece of lumber and a slab?  Which definitions apply to a slab?

1a.  A piece initially sawn from a log face when "squaring up" the log.  It has no potential to be made into lumber (with two flat faces).  Traditional definition indeed.

1b.  A thicker piece initially sawn from a log face when "squaring" up the log.  It can be resawn to produce a piece of lumber and a smaller slab referred to in 1a.

2a.  Any thick piece of lumber that has been edged.

2b.  Any piece of lumber, any thickness, that has been edged.

3a.  A thick piece of unedged lumber that still has the rounded edges from the log.  This is sometimes called an unedged cant or flitch.

3b. A piece of unedged lumber, any thickness, that still has the rounded edges from the log.

4.  A thick piece of lumber, edged or unedged, that will be further sawn or resawn, into thinner pieces of lumber.  This is also called a cant.

5a.  Any unedged thick piece of lumber.  The edges can be partially sawn, or rounded.

5b. Any edged thick piece of lumber.  The edges can be sawn, or partially sawn.

6.  If a slab (defined in any of the above definitions) is green, air dried or kiln dried, it is still a slab.

7.  In any of the above definitions, must the definition include that a slab be at least be a certain width?  Or length?

8.  ......?  Other?

Note:  The strict definition of lumber is a flat piece of wood with parallel edges, a rectangular parallelpiped, at least 1" thick, 3" wide and 4' long.  However, in the above definitions, unedged lumber also means a piece of wood that has the potential, with a small amount of additional manufacturing, to be made into lumber.

Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Kbeitz

I also was ready to make a remark on the post but I got confused so I keep quite.
I was always told the slab wood had a rounded face and was used for firewood.
I thought the guy should have used the word mantels.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Magicman

We must remember that most of the "slab" buyers in today's market have no idea what terms and definitions are traditionally correct in the lumber industry.  If it is thick, it is a slab.  I have heard the term used to describe a big fish, bacon, steak, or a slice of cake.   :)
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Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

terrifictimbersllc

I often have customers use the term as a verb, asking about my services to "slab up their logs".   In further discussion i find they do not necessarily mean through and through sawing.

As to definitions in the dictionary words often have more than one, sometimes many meanings.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Dan_Shade

I once cut a very large slab because the customer wanted one (to me the slab has a curved face).   He looked at me kinda funny, then I realized he wanted a thick flitch.

After that if someone wants something strange, I ask a few questions, or might even draw a picture.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

LeeB

So, you could set your mill up on a concrete slab. Then you could cut the slabs off the log and then cut the cant into nice thick slabs. Come lunch time you could eat your of slab bacon and then get back to work before the boss slabs you upside the head for goofing off too long.  :D :D :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

terrifictimbersllc

We got a good start here,  it is always spelled the same way.  :)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Sparty

Customers ask for slabs + customer has the $ = (slab=whatever a customer thinks is a slab)

The only thing that the Dr. did wrong in the original post was to give too many choices.

Sounds like most sawyers would agree that slabs are the "waste" cuts. 

Ozarker

The 1a definition conforms to what I've always heard, and used. These slabs were also referred to as puncheons, many years back. Puncheon may be regional, but its use was fairly wide-spread.

4x4American

Quote from: LeeB on January 24, 2016, 09:05:28 AM
So, you could set your mill up on a concrete slab. Then you could cut the slabs off the log and then cut the cant into nice thick slabs. Come lunch time you could eat your of slab bacon and then get back to work before the boss slabs you upside the head for goofing off too long.  :D :D :D

Lol


So would I be correct in calling a 3-1/4" thick flitch a flitch?

The guy I'm sawig for now has me "filleting" logs lol
Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

EDITED BY ADMIN. ABSOLUTELY INAPPROPRIATE FOR THE FORESTRY FORUM

my bad..
Boy, back in my day..

thecfarm

LeeB,I would be late getting back from lunch beacuse I had to eat my slab of cake.

Chesterville use to be called Slab City because of the high slabs piles on each side of the road.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Jeff

From Dictionary.com
noun
1.a broad, flat, somewhat thick piece of stone, wood, or other solid material.
2.a thick slice of anything:
a slab of bread.
3.a semifinished piece of iron or steel so rolled that its breadth is at least twice its thickness.
4.a rough outside piece cut from a log, as when sawing one into boards.
5.Baseball Slang. rubber1(def 14).
6.Building Trades. a section of concrete pavement or a concrete floor placed directly on the ground or on a base of gravel.
verb (used with object), slabbed, slabbing.
7.to make into a slab or slabs.
8.to cover or lay with slabs.
9.to cut the slabs or outside pieces from (a log).
10.to put on in slabs; cover thickly

In my sawmill career, on the profession side of things a slab was the part of the log removed to get to the lumber, to be chipped or burned. To the consumer or customer, it is what ever they define it to be. You don't argue semantics when someone is handing you $25 for a bundle of slabs, or three $100 bills for just one "slab".

The term "flitch" to me, was unknown for 25 years. Never heard is used in this region. First time was here on the Forestry Forum. Then again, I was a bit sheltered, my entire world was 3.5 foot by 5 ft sawbooth.

I got lumber to the left,
Got logs to the right,
Goona be sawing them all *DanG night,
I got those gotta get that load out blues...
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

YellowHammer

Certainly there seems to be a difference between what industry calls a slab, and the common term that the customer may use.  When a customer asks me for a "slab" I almost always have to ask them what they mean to clarify.  From my perspective from dealing with a variety of folks, both professional furniture makers and amateur woodworkers, a contextual definition of a slab seems to be a thick piece of wood that they can't accurately or conveniently described dimensionally with common terms easily, unlike as a 2x12 or a 4x4, and they don't want to be embarrassed by not knowing what to call it.  So it would be an irregular width hunk of wood, unedged, or only edged on one side that would be described by a customer as "Do you have kiln dried slabs?  You know, a piece of wood, 2 1/2 to 4 inches thick, maybe 18 to 36 inches wide, kind of straight but doesn't matter, how much are they ?" ;D

I used to say, you mean a wide, thick flitch? And they'd say, "I don't know, I'm looking for a slab."

Of course, the next guy comes up and asks if I sell slabs for firewood, and I point him to the big pile or "real slabs" fresh off the mill out in the mud and he starts loading them on his trailer.   :D
YellowHammerisms:

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Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

drobertson

It just seems that it's one of those things where people use the same term for different purposes.  It seems only fare that the term slab should be in reference to the opening face cut of a log.  How the rest of the products are named would almost seem to be a regional thing.. I have been slabbed across the head before, and there was no real good reason that I can remember ;D
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Ga Mtn Man

Quote from: drobertson on January 24, 2016, 10:17:37 AM.. I have been slabbed across the head before, and there was no real good reason that I can remember ;D

That does explain an awful lot. ;D
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


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thecfarm

I never heard of a flitch either.
I work in a hardware store. Three people will come in and ask for the same thing,but they all call it a different name.   ;D  I always try to question them and find out what they are using it for. That will put me in the right aisle to help them.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Kbeitz

I got the word from my Dad calling this an old slab house...
We had a lot of them in our area a long time ago...




 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

LeeB

I heard the term flitch before I got into milling. Read it in a book on woodworking referencing the sequential cuts of a log sawn through and through. I learned the term through and through after I started milling. At the moment I can't remember the name of the author of the woodworking book but he was british I believe and quite well followed in his time. I want to say the book was written in the 40's maybe.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

red

In the furniture business slab has a different meaning. Tree slab dining table, wood slab furniture, live edge wood slab, slab wood bench, reclaimed slab. Stone and masonry slabs have a similar meaning.  With a little more description it makes sense.
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Cedarman

This discussion points out that it is extremely important to have an open dialog between customer and sawyer.  The goal is to give the customer the product that they have in their mind.  Many times customers have trouble describing exactly what they want. IF not enough time is taken to get a "meeting of the minds", then problems will arise.  I am often asked for 2x4s.  If I didn't narrow down the actual size wanted, I would be giving the customer something they didn't expect to get over half of the time.
Having a good set of pictures with captions to e-mail potential customers might go a long way.
Just today I am sending a set of pictures showing all red, mostly red , and less than mostly red cedar to a customer so that they can get a visual idea of the differences.  Saves a lot of talking.
This all  comes about because the word "slab" is not the slab itself, but a set of abstract symbols evoking a real  world image in the brain.  As we all know, the same symbols can evoke completely different thoughts among different people.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

drobertson

Quote from: LeeB on January 24, 2016, 11:10:52 AM
I heard the term flitch before I got into milling. Read it in a book on woodworking referencing the sequential cuts of a log sawn through and through. I learned the term through and through after I started milling. At the moment I can't remember the name of the author of the woodworking book but he was british I believe and quite well followed in his time. I want to say the book was written in the 40's maybe.
I read an old book, something like "back to basics" so not really that old, but used older terms,, a flitch is described as a board of any thickness with bark edges still in tact. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Darrel

flitch Is a word I never heard until I joined forestry forum, and from what I understand it is anything a slab is except maybe thinner and maybe a few other things that to me are relatively unimportant. That is why with my mill I only cut slabs, cants and lumber.

And one more thing, some of us can't figure out when a log becomes a cant.
:D
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Tom the Sawyer

First reference to "flitch" that I read was in books by Krenov.  Generally, around here "slab" means the first 3 or 4 cuts made on the log - with one milled face, although some callers ask about "slabbing" their logs or buying "slabs" as in thick pieces.  My woodworking education was that less than 1/4 were veneers, 1/4-6/4 were boards, 7/4 to 15/4 were planks, 16/4 and up were timbers.  Live-edge was one bark edge and one milled edge, flitch was two bark edges.

There are so many terms used that it probably doesn't make much difference as long as you and the client/customer understand what you are talking about. :)
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If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

WV Sawmiller

   Yep. I never heard of a flitch till I got involved with sawmilling. A slab to me was a flat section of concrete or a big crappie. I guess a native edge mantel could called a slab or a flitch and a squared sided 4 mantel could be either a board or cant.

    I advertise slabs in a local trader paper which are just thick cut native edges for woodworkers, gunsmiths, and sometimes as a mantel for some customers.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Quote from: Darrel on January 24, 2016, 12:28:56 PMAnd one more thing, some of us can't figure out when a log becomes a cant.  :D
When a log has had all of the slabs and flitches removed and is ready to be sawn into lumber, it becomes a cant.

Now it you want to know what a cant hook is,  just forget everything else and remember Logrite.
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It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

red

Can't   You can't handle the truth !
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Percy

Quote from: Magicman on January 24, 2016, 08:46:30 AM
  If it is thick, it is a slab.  I have heard the term used to describe a slice of cake.   :)
Cake....Now yer talking....I need me some cake... :D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

woodmills1

I slabbed a flitch once but no one bought it ???
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longtime lurker

In 'straya... and subject to regional variences:

If the first breakdown cut goes through the pith of the log the two pieces produced are then called "splits".

If the first breakdown cuts go either side the pith to split the log into three pieces you get two "wings" and a "center cant". Both wings and center cant are further processed to recover timber.

Squaring up a "center cant" produces a "cant". A cant is any large four sided piece to be further resawn. A cant can have waney edges but does not have rounded sides.

A "flitch" is a large squared up piece of timber used for the production of sawn or sliced veneer. A log or section thereof intended for the production of sawn or sliced veneer is a "veneer log/billet".

A log or piece thereof intended for the production of rotary veneer is a "peeler/ peeler log"

A "slab" has two sawn faces and two live edges and is sold as is suit bartops etc.
Which makes sense in a convoluted way because a slab is also a carton of beer.

I get jealous of the idea of a "slab pile"...  :D
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

DMcCoy

Dang-it!  I went to urban dictionary hoping to find something humorous to post about the term slab, now I have to wash my eyes out with soap.

Slab - slow low and bangin ->southern term- a pimped out car.

Slabs to me are always firewood, the rest is called lumber.  :/

Darrel

Quote from: longtime lurker on January 24, 2016, 08:25:17 PM
A "slab" has two sawn faces and two live edges and is sold as is suit bartops etc.
Which makes sense in a convoluted way because a slab is also a carton of beer.

I get jealous of the idea of a "slab pile"...  :D

That would most definitely make them easier to dispose of.

Quote from: DMcCoy link=topic=88253.msg1353780#msg135378'0 date=1453687455
Dang-it!  I went to urban dictionary hoping to find something humorous to post about the term slab, now I have to wash my eyes out with soap. :/

My curiosity is about to get the best of me but DanG-it, soap in the eyes is not a pleasant thought!  :D :D
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Brucer

I, too, learned the term "flitch" from Krenov's books (back in the mid-70's). I'd never thought about sawing logs before that, but Krenov mentioned "flitch-sawing" and showed a picture of an Alaskan mill. That got me hooked. First a chainsaw, then a mini-mill, then a bigger chainsaw, then an Alaskan mill, then a manual band-mill, then a hydraulic mill.

As for terminology in general, I get all sorts of calls.

Someone wants a slab. That can be the round-faced piece off the side of a log, or a thick piece of wood, with or without the live edges.

Someone wants offcuts. That can mean the trimmed ends off my lumber, it can mean slabs off the side of a log, it can even mean a piece cut off the end of a log.

I've had people ask for boards when they want timbers, and timbers when they want boards.

I've had people ask for logs when they want timbers, and timbers when they want a short piece of log.

And I once had a logger ask me to look at some really good Larch logs he was selling. I went and he showed me a small Larch forest. "Tell me which one's you want and I'll cut them down for you." I told him I wouldn't know which ones I wanted until they were on the ground. He said Dang well wasn't going to cut down a bunch of trees if I wasn't going to buy them. I told him I only bought logs, not trees. He just didn't get it ::).

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

LeeB

Thanks Bruce. I've been racking my brain trying to remember the authors name. The name of the book I read was 'The Cabinet Makers Notebook'.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

pineywoods

A very frequent episode at my mill, person gets out of the truck and announces "I need some boards" . I have learned that when that happens, I show them a stack of 2X4 and 1x12..Yup, that's what I need...If I'm feeling a bit mischievous, I'll ask, You want real 2X4's or store bought size...Huh?
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Sixacresand

Among the many meanings of "slab", before Forestry Forum, I always thought a slab was the rounded outside cuts of a log which was generally discarded.  I now know it can be a valuable, wide, thick cut from a log, with or without live edges.  So based on this thread, when someone ask if they can have some slabs, I need to get an understanding on what they are calling a slab. 
"Sometimes you can make more hay with less equipment if you just use your head."  Tom, Forestry Forum.  Tenth year with a LT40 Woodmizer,

Ugly Tree

Grew up in a 50 bundle-a-week tie mill. Fourth generation sawmiller. Never heard the term flitch.  A log could only ever make four slabs--face opening cuts.  Just our neck of the woods...  no disrespect to anyone else or region. 
Woodland HM126, Massey Ferguson 3165, 440 and 210 Stihl, a lot of grunt bars.

Al_Smith

I first heard the term flitch describing a rustic type wood siding with what appears to be the uncut portion of the tree at the bottom .Meant to be rustic, quite popular during the mid 70's for gable ends of houses .

About 4-5 years ago  I put an addition on my house .In order to match the rest of the house I had to buy some. Cedar from Burnby B.C. and they were certainly proud of it I might add .

4x4American

I agree that technically, a slab is the first cut from any of the 4 faces.


But, if a term is so broadly used for something that it becomes commonplace, it can change.  Remember, people invented words, and they can be changed with the times.  Try to read literature from the 1700's. 


Lucas has a dedicated slabber mill.  Does that mean it can only cut proper slabs?  I think not!
Boy, back in my day..

LeeB

I've been know to slabber a little when I see something I really really want.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

plowboyswr

Quote from: LeeB on January 25, 2016, 10:28:37 PM
I've been know to slabber a little when I see something I really really want.
:D :D :D
Just an ole farm boy takin one day at a time.
Steve

terrifictimbersllc

It's a good point that at least two sawmill manufacturers call their machines "slabbers".
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Brucer

As Cedarman says, the important thing is to be sure you're on the same wavelength as the person you're talking to. I never assume that my customer wants what he/she said :). Why should we expect our customers know the terminology of the sawmill when we can't even agree on it among ourselves ;D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

beenthere

smiley_thumbsup  smiley_thumbsup 

We develop slang terms over the years... 50 years ago, in the wood industry, the "slab for table top" would be "flitch".  But time has its way of changing things... ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

redprospector

This thread makes me think of Babylon.
In the Bible, when the Babylonians got too big for their britches, God confused their language so they didn't know what each other was talking about.
Hmm. Just a little food for thought.  ;)
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

4x4American

Today on FB, WM posted a video of their 1000 mill and wrote this: "Built for milling massive logs up to 67" in diameter, the WM1000 is ideal for sawing large, high-value slabs." 


I saw that and thought of this thread. smiley_flipping
Boy, back in my day..

Solomon

Different have different uses of the word, to me, A "slab" is the first outside piece cut off the log.
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

Darrel

When I was a kid growing up around sawmills, slabs were always the first cuts off the outside of the log.  Then came Lucas Mill with their slabbing attachment and their dedicated slabber.  This added new meaning to the word "slab" and we also started hearing the word used as a verb.  E.g. "I'm going to slab that log into 12/4 slabs."  Anyway, that's what I think happened.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

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