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what type of finish on a table top

Started by Randy88, January 20, 2016, 10:36:35 AM

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Randy88

This has been a discussion of over 30 years and counting, but its getting closer to happen.    My wife is getting [finally] a walnut trestle table with a two inch thick top and ends, its still in the design phase, but the lumber is planed and now there's a discussion, rather heated by some not me of course, but how or what to use to for finish on the top to give it protection and durability for everyday use.     

Our old, and I mean old used to us pine trestle table had many issues [mainly kid induced] and never survived the journey of several moves, basically it was abused so badly via pens, pencils and everything else over the years as the kids grew up, it wasn't worth fixing anymore.    It had been sanded and refinished so many times there just wasn't much left of it so after some debate, into the wood boiler it went, falling off the truck on the last ride didn't do it much good either, so there wasn't much to do but toss it into the fire.     

Most tables for everyday use have something but a natural wood top, the one we've been using for almost a decade now is a tell city table with a Formica top, nice table just not what I've always wanted.     

If this process works, we have several more to make for the kids, or shall I say, help them make themselves.     

What works for finish, what have others used and how does it hold up, I've never really found one for a table I've ever liked, I want the natural looking finish, don't want a stain at all.    Thanks for any ideas or input in advance.       

mesquite buckeye

I like Minwax indoor/outdoor Helmsman spar urethane.  ;D This is the oil based formulation. The water based ones have improved, but I still think they are inferior to the oil based finishes, not to mention the nasty water soluble chemicals in the water based products that absorb pretty easily through the skin. I'm guessing in another 10-20 years we will be finding out how bad those chemicals are for people. :(

The urethane I use ambers the wood the least of anything I've tried. It comes in gloss, semi-gloss and satin. Athena's table has the semi-gloss and still looks good at like 8-10 years in use daily. We used the satin on the bathroom sink and at 2 years of daily use looks brand new. I use the spray cans as I hate brush streaks and haven't had good luck not getting them.  :( You can also get it in quarts and probably gallons, although I haven't seen those. It is not cheap, close to $10 a can and $16 for a quart. 8) 8) 8) :snowball:
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

scsmith42

Industry standard finish for restaurant tables is usually a post-catalyzed conversion varnish.  It has the reputation of having the best resistance to moisture and chemicals typically used for cleaning tables.

It is a spray on finish and you MUST use a respirator (or have a local cabinet shop with a spray booth apply it for you).  Typically three coats of 3 mill each.  Be sure to finish all sides of the lumber.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

gfadvm

I too use that MW Spar Urethane for table tops. I mix 2 parts Spar to 1 part mineral spirits and wipe it on with a folded up piece of t shirt. I also spray it undiluted with a Home Depot cheapo sprayer on my tall folding chairs. Both methods work well for me. The Spar contains "long oils" that give the wood a 'warmer' look than poly.

Randy88

Anyone have an experience with pour on epoxy type product??  I've never used or been around it, but done some reading about it, only by those that sell it and they claim its what's used on bar tops and table tops, but you can't have any oil based products or anything else on first, must be on bare wood.     

It claims you can even put photo's down and pour it over them and when dry, they are in the epoxy and visible, which I've seen in several restaurants over the years.     

My wife seems to think this is the product that was used in a restaurant she worked at when in high school, but can't remember for sure.     

Was curious if anyone had ever used it, been around it, what problems there is to using it, and if it used, how to ever change the table to anything else later on down the road if it didn't work out.     

They claim its a coating up to 1/16 of an inch thick or more depending on how much a person wants to put on, it can be even thicker.       

Am somewhat hesitant to do a new walnut table with a product I've never been around, used, and nobody else I know has either..................if you guys know what I mean.     

Ianab

I've seen the pour on finishes. It's basically a layer of transparent plastic resin over your table. Great for a commercial setting, but you have 1/16" plus of actual plastic over your wood.

I've not used it, but I've used West System epoxy to fill holes, and embed stuff in table tops. It's like that, but you embed the whole table with a very runny epoxy that flows over the whole top.

Personally I use an oil based polyurethane varnish on my tables etc. It seems to hold up well to regular domestic use, and if it does start looking tatty after a decade or so, a solid top can be sanded back and refinished easily enough.

The "Spar" urethane the guys are talking about is the good stuff. Generally UV stabilised, so sunlight doesn't affect it as quickly. I go with the regular poly, and if it yellows over the years, so be it. It can be refinished if you want.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

limbwood

I had a lady tell me she used beechwood gunstock finish on her tables when she redid them . said it didnt leave water rings, I havent tried it yet.

jueston

i finish most things with a couple coats of sanding sealer(shellac) and then a couple coats of polyurethane. all urethane's should be good with some moisture, like the kind a dining room table gets, not long term exposure.

the spar urethane people are talking about is actually spar polyurethane, but that confuses people so the marketing types removed the poly. it is a urethane based finish with stuff added to it to give it UV resistance and additional flexibility, this is important when being put on the spar of a boat, now its generally used as an exterior urethane finish, but i'm sure it would be very durable inside as well.

epoxy is awesome stuff, but if your going to cover your walnut in 1/8th inch of plastic why not just start out with Plastic laminate?

i've heard other people here on the forum say they use shallac for everything, even exterior doors. it doesn't last very long, but its so easy to reapply, you can just wipe it down with with a wet rag and apply a new coat, the new shallac will disolve the flakey old shellac and it will last another year...

Randy88

On several other tables we have, we've been using  polyurethane we mix some mineral spirits with so it can be wiped on, seems to work good for most things, but for the main table used in the kitchen daily, we haven't had good luck with it.   

As for using a laminate plastic, its been discussed extensively, all I can say about that is, how many of you are married?           

So we're going to go with an all walnut table I'm told and figure out how to best protect it, LOL.   

That and it would be an all wood table, sawn from our timber and then be a family piece, again it a married thing I'm finding out, then once this gets figured out and the first one done, we're going to duplicate it at least once more for one of the kids who's helping with this project as per the deal to get the help, that's a kid thing who learned how to negotiate at an early age, his girlfriend is also helping out.   If nothing else, we should all learn something, so we may well try several options for the finish, that way when its over, we'll know how we should have done for both.       

scgargoyle

I did our kitchen counter with Waterlox, a cross-linked tung oil. Basically a thin varnish. I put on 4 coats, because it soaks in like crazy, then the last coat I did in satin. It came out full of dust, so I hand scraped it, then buffed it with 0000 steel wool. Kinda shiny but not too much, really smooth, and seems to handle use just fine. Whatever you use, take your time, and prep, prep, prep.
I hope my ship comes in before the dock rots!

tule peak timber

A good thread! I have used, use all of the above and am still trying to figure out the best systems for my various needs.Wish I had a silver bullet  :D
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

beenthere

If walnut and it has good figure and beauty that walnut beholds, then I'd say finish it with oil. The finish I prefer is the Watco Danish Oil. Several coats will give a great finish.

And for the daily use, no better time for the whole family to learn how to treat quality furniture.
So many don't have a clue because they have only grown up with and around plastic laminates.
Learn that pop cans, wet glasses, etc. don't work.

But with the oil finish, a new application of oil wiped on will restore the finish for another go at enjoying the beauty.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

knotscott

Due to the amount of water,liquid, and other abuse a dining table sees, I'd go with a good furniture grade polyurethane.  You can build it up 3 or 4 coats, let it dry thoroughly, then rub it out to an attractive satin finish that doesn't look like plastic.

jueston

this thread might be a fine example that there is no accounting for taste...  :D each person is going to have there own style and tastes

there are some amazing craftsmen on this forum, and each of them has there idea of the "best finish"

Ianab

Having a 3 year old in the house, the durable finish matters.  :D Doesn't matter how careful Taylor is, something will end up on the table.

Mum bought a nice rimu wood table a few years back. Quite a nice table, and rather expensive. So she decides it needs to be protected, so she gets an oval sheet of glass cut to cover the top. This is of course rather expensive too. So she needs to protect that with a heavy cloth. I kid her sometimes that as no one can actually see the table any more, she could have kept the old formica one, and thrown a nice cloth over that, and just told everyone it was a new table.  :D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Kbeitz

I have used varnish for many years and loved it. But I dont like the stuff sold today.
Now I use the  pour on epoxy luquid glass and I'll never go back.
It's about $80 a gal. but one coat = 16 coats of varnish.
I just now building new kitchen counters and the  luquid epoxy is what I'll use.

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Randy88

Jueston, that's why I asked the question, get many responses from first hand experience.   We've tried many finish's over the years as well, some we liked, others we hated it just depends on the piece of furniture and how its used.     
   

tule peak timber

Quote from: Kbeitz on January 21, 2016, 07:24:01 PM
I have used varnish for many years and loved it. But I dont like the stuff sold today.
Now I use the  pour on epoxy luquid glass and I'll never go back.
It's about $80 a gal. but one coat = 16 coats of varnish.
I just now building new kitchen counters and the  luquid epoxy is what I'll use.
Are these the people at liquidglass.com?There are a lot of epoxys out there -just curios about the one you are using . Liquidglass.com- commercial, touts having the hardest product for surface use available. Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Randy88

Kbeitz, I've been reading the directions on how to apply it, basically they call it a pour method, yet they also claim it can be brushed on as well, how do you apply it to the projects you've done?     Could you elaborate somewhat on what different projects you've used it on, how it was applied, how you got it evenly coated and so on.   

The directions also say to use a sealer first, then go onto to say what types are allowed, how long to let them dry and then state their pour on product can used by brushing it on first to seal it up, how do you do it to prep for the final coat? 

How do you "pour" the ends and sides of the table top?     

Kbeitz

Quote from: Randy88 on January 22, 2016, 06:04:36 AM
Kbeitz, I've been reading the directions on how to apply it, basically they call it a pour method, yet they also claim it can be brushed on as well, how do you apply it to the projects you've done?     Could you elaborate somewhat on what different projects you've used it on, how it was applied, how you got it evenly coated and so on.   

The directions also say to use a sealer first, then go onto to say what types are allowed, how long to let them dry and then state their pour on product can used by brushing it on first to seal it up, how do you do it to prep for the final coat? 


How do you "pour" the ends and sides of the table top?   

Just poured some this morning. I use this type of Spreader Knife (first picture) to push it around and finish with a brush. The brand I use is Aristocrat. I put on a coat of Polyurethane first to show my defects and to help seal the wood. The Polyurethane will show you if you got any glue spots or defects so you can resand and fix your problems because once you put on the liquid glass your done. After the Polyurethane i sand and vac.
You just pour it on and push it around. Put paper on the floor. Brush it on the sides.
Second picture is what i just did.



 



 



Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

lowpolyjoe


Randy88

Kbeitz, thanks for the reply, do you also do the underside with epoxy as well, or just use polyurethane on the area's that are not seen.     

Great looking countertop by the way, do you have some more photo's of other things you've used the epoxy on?   

Kbeitz

Quote from: Randy88 on January 23, 2016, 07:20:37 PM
Kbeitz, thanks for the reply, do you also do the underside with epoxy as well, or just use polyurethane on the area's that are not seen.     

Great looking countertop by the way, do you have some more photo's of other things you've used the epoxy on?   

The expoxy think is all new to me. I was a varnish man. That was the second time I've used it.
I use satin polyurethane  varnish on the bottom.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Sparty

I really really really wish people knew how to treat wood furniture... But it is a lost cause.  As much as I wish I could use oil finishes on most projects... I can't.  Put a traditional oil finish on your dining table and you will become the table nazi.  Everyone that comes over for dinner will get a lecture on not leaving a cold drink on the table.  Your kids and grandkids will get a lecture every day.  You will wake up in the middle of the night with cold sweats and the gnawing thought that your wife left a glass of ice water on the table...again.

OffGrid973

Hi folks,

I made the mistake of using a spreader with the ridges, and was told a flat edge piece of plastic works better.  First epoxy coat I had no issue the spreader shown above, but 2nd and 3rd I would stay smooth edge.

Definite first 1 or 2 coats of poly, this will also reduce air bubbles in the epoxy coats from what I saw.


Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

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