Major issue with my woodmizer sharpener!

MuklukAnnie · January 15, 2016, 02:20:07 AM

So i have been sharpening blades for a local mill for the last 4 years now and I have never had issues like I am right now.

I am grinding any where from 50 - 80 blades a month and now all of a sudden when the grinder is operating it is making this huge snapping sound like it is snapping off teeth even though it isn't. Honestly when it happens it scares the hell out of me and basically I am almost hitting the floor.

So what I have tried to fix this issue is reset all off my settings and start again by gradually lowering the wheel down towards the blade. It seems fine for a few teeth then it is hitting some teeth not hitting other teeth then bam the snapping from hell then really hard grinding on the next teeth right after. I can't really say that I have witnessed what it is doing as I am not going to have the guard up to watch it up close and personal as now I can honestly say I don't trust it.

I am at a loss. My new best friend "Gary" from Wood Mizer has never heard of anything like this either. Even the head office doesn't have a clue.

Any ideas or thoughts would sure be appreciated. also any thought on the Timberking sharpener would be appreciated.

Cheers!
Mukluk Annie

LeeB · January 15, 2016, 05:05:27 AM

Look at the pin in the fork that advances the blade. It may be worn out and have a groove in it or even split through. Which type sharpener do you have? The drag type or the newer CBN type? Try running it without a blade in it so you can watch it with the guard up and see if it is the advance or the grinder itself. watch the advance fork and see if it is drawing back too far and fallin off the end before returning for the push stroke or catching in some other way. If you're worried about the wheel, take it off. Wear safety glasses and if you have one, a face shield. Check the tension blocks that the blade slides through and make sure they aren't totally gunked up and causing the blade to be 'grabby'. Look at the pins the blocks float on too to make sure there isn't a grove cut in one of them. Just a few ideas off the top of my head. I haven't used a WM sharpener in quite a while. They are pretty simple critters though and it shouldn't take too much to find the problem. If you are using a CBN type set up I can't help you because I never used one but a lot of the suggestions would be the same for it too.

Chuck White · January 15, 2016, 06:42:15 AM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, MuklukAnnie.

terrifictimbersllc · January 15, 2016, 06:59:07 AM

Agree, find a way to safely see exactly what is causing the noise. Use a flashlight.

ladylake · January 15, 2016, 07:15:30 AM

Quote from: LeeB on January 15, 2016, 05:05:27 AM
Look at the pin in the fork that advances the blade. It may be worn out and have a groove in it or even split through. Which type sharpener do you have? The drag type or the newer CBN type? Try running it without a blade in it so you can watch it with the guard up and see if it is the advance or the grinder itself. watch the advance fork and see if it is drawing back too far and fallin off the end before returning for the push stroke or catching in some other way. If you're worried about the wheel, take it off. Wear safety glasses and if you have one, a face shield. Check the tension blocks that the blade slides through and make sure they aren't totally gunked up and causing the blade to be 'grabby'. Look at the pins the blocks float on too to make sure there isn't a grove cut in one of them. Just a few ideas off the top of my head. I haven't used a WM sharpener in quite a while. They are pretty simple critters though and it shouldn't take too much to find the problem. If you are using a CBN type set up I can't help you because I never used one but a lot of the suggestions would be the same for it too.

Good advice on the push pin, I've has to replace a couple of them and the worn groove will catch the blade on the way back. Steve

petefrom bearswamp · January 15, 2016, 09:42:59 AM

I agree with the comment by Leeb

pineywoods · January 15, 2016, 10:08:45 AM

Woodmizer makes 3 different sharpeners. It would help if we knew which one you are having problems with.

Percy · January 15, 2016, 10:53:20 AM

Just stabbin in the dark here.....The sensor that the magnet operates to shut the sharpener down can/has made my sharpener go batpoop crazy. Also could be the gear part of the gear motor failing. When that happened to mine, I was scared too. THe thing was almost jumping off the floor....

Stephen1 · January 15, 2016, 12:56:26 PM

Does it do it to every blade? I have had bad teeth (from hitting nails) not allowing a good push by the fork, which then allows the grinding wheel to drop, makes a H##l of a noise.

Will_Johnson · January 15, 2016, 01:46:28 PM

Of course I love TimberKing equipment in general and I think highly of our sharpening equipment!

But I would also say that if the Woodmizer sharpener has been serving you well for four years that says a lot about the quality of what they have made. I would suggest you should take the time to work with the good folks at Woodmizer to address your problems and get back up and running!

PineNut · January 15, 2016, 02:16:46 PM

I did have a woodmizer sharpener that would catch on the weld and destroy a tooth. The pin had a grove worn in and the weld was just enough different that the grove in the pin would catch on it. Replacing the pin fixed the problem.

woodmills1 · January 15, 2016, 06:05:02 PM

Check all of the bolts to see if one loosened up. One of my pusher bolts was loose and it was the devil till I saw it and tightened.

Peter Drouin · January 15, 2016, 06:30:24 PM

You have the blade set to far ahead of the cbn when it hits. Adjust the blade holder back a little. And clean out where the blade is clamped. The pitch will build and you will have a loose blade.
Once you find the sweet spot your good. ;D

MuklukAnnie · January 18, 2016, 07:26:46 PM

So I want to thank everyone for your replies!

So on to the story...

(The sharpener that I am using is so old the model number is worn off but it is one of the WM that is on a tripod stand if that helps.)

Well I messed with it and messed with it and finally threw it out the window. On a happy note though because I was so far behind I decide to try using my Dremel and sharpen that way. Low and behold it works like a Darn! I am still able to sharpen and set 5 an hour and no bluing of the teeth. The guys really like them as they seem to last longer too. I have started punch marking them so that I can see how many sharpenings I am getting out of the blades now.

i am still behind but that's ok. I can see light at the end of the tunnel. On a really positive note... No more oil!

Jeff · January 18, 2016, 07:34:40 PM

I'd not get to excited. You are not cleaning up the gullets with that dremel, and I suspect you will soon pay the price of broken bands in your near future rather than a dull blade you could then resharpen.

Kbeitz · January 18, 2016, 07:47:44 PM

I only use a dermel and I sharpen in the gullet.
Works for me...

MuklukAnnie · January 18, 2016, 07:54:52 PM

This is how I am doing mine also Kbeitz. Can I ask which stone you are using and also how many blades you can do with it?

Cutting Edge · January 18, 2016, 08:02:39 PM

Knowing what model it is helps: You have an LTAGA

Quote from: Percy on January 15, 2016, 10:53:20 AM
Also could be the gear part of the gear motor failing.

x2 Sounds like a tooth or maybe three in the gear reduction wore out. Parts are still available and it is a pretty easy repair. Good opportunity to give it all a good once-over and get another 20 yrs. of service out of it.

Quote from: Jeff on January 18, 2016, 07:34:40 PM
I'd not get to excited. You are not cleaning up the gullets with that dremel, and I suspect you will soon pay the price of broken bands in your near future rather than a dull blade you could then resharpen.

Along with numerous cut quality issues due to inconsistent tooth height, hook angle, etc... before premature blade breakage. :-\

Jeff · January 18, 2016, 08:23:35 PM

Kbeitz, I doubt if there is one single handful of other members on here out of several thousand that recommends your methods so, MuklukAnnie, be aware of that. It will mean the short life of your bands or worse when a band breaks because of the method.

KirkD · January 18, 2016, 08:32:59 PM

I got an LTAGA with the 89 LT40 I just bought that I am restoring and Woodmizer was able to get me the manual for it. From what I have seen most all the parts are still available. Call them they will email you the manual or I can if that is ok to do?

Kbeitz · January 18, 2016, 08:37:26 PM

I buy the stones on E-bay real cheap. I use the 5/16th size.
I can sharpen blades about 5 times per stone. Then i save the stone for something else.
I cant see why useing a dremal would be different from any other grinder.
A turning grind stone is a turning grind stone on a machine or in a dremel.
I own a machine shop and I sharpen all my tools.
Planner blades, drill bits . mill bits. lathe bit etc. so I'm not a beginner at sharping things.
I have not had a problem with blade brakage.
I dont get anything hot and I sharpen very lightly.
But to each his own . It might not work for everybody.

MuklukAnnie · January 18, 2016, 08:53:11 PM

Quote from: Jeff on January 18, 2016, 07:34:40 PM
I'd not get to excited. You are not cleaning up the gullets with that dremel, and I suspect you will soon pay the price of broken bands in your near future rather than a dull blade you could then resharpen.

I will definitely take note of that Jeff. All I need right now is just to get something going till I figure out which way I am going to go. (I have 40 blades sitting out in my shop to get done asap.)

I really like the Cat Claw sharpener but with the exchange right now it's going to take some saving before I can purchase it.

As for blade breakage the guys out at the mill are really hard on blades. I was only able to sharpen a blade 3 time maybe 4 before they were snapping.

pineywoods · January 18, 2016, 08:56:15 PM

That ole ltaga sharpener is a fairly simple device, but it has a couple of gotcha's that will drive you to drink.
1 the push fork has a small pin across it that actually contacts the tooth. A slot will wear on the bottom side where you can't see it. That slot will sometimes hang on the tip of a tooth during the back stroke and pull the blade backwards right where the rock will descend right on top of a tooth.
punch the pin out and replace it with a new roll pin. 15 cent item at any auto parts store..

2. the two metal blocks that form the blade clamp will build up crud between them and fail to hold the blade stationary during the grinding phase. Try this..Mount a blade and tighten the springs on the clamp. Grab the blade with your fingers and try to pull it in either direction. If you can move the blade, the clamp is not doing it's job. Pull the clamp apart and clean off the crud between them...

MuklukAnnie · January 18, 2016, 08:59:03 PM

Quote from: KirkD on January 18, 2016, 08:32:59 PM
I got an LTAGA with the 89 LT40 I just bought that I am restoring and Woodmizer was able to get me the manual for it. From what I have seen most all the parts are still available. Call them they will email you the manual or I can if that is ok to do?

I really appreciate the offer but honestly I am just done with the oil grinder. I know you can used water but since I am in my shop and only have wood heat, the water would just freeze overnight.

schmism · January 18, 2016, 09:22:42 PM

Quote from: Kbeitz on January 18, 2016, 08:37:26 PM
I only use a dermel and I sharpen in the gullet.

I cant see why useing a dremal would be different from any other grinder.
A turning grind stone is a turning grind stone on a machine or in a dremel.

This is the sort of typical statement i would expect of someone who knows nothing of how a "real" blade sharpeing system performs.

you have 2 basic types of "full profile" sharpeners.

1) uses a thin disk that follows a cam profile of movement. the entire profile is thus reground each shapening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmvL011DTpA
(i vaguely remember the owner of that vid being a forum member)

2) the other uses a diamond coated steel wheel that is ground to the correct shape of the full gullet and backside of tooth. This single profile grinder is dropped down in one "vertical" motion to grind the entire profile at once.

in action
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXdkY1dj6Q

either method grinds the entire "profile" of the "tooth".

Technically speaking the gullet of the blade does no cutting. It simply provides physical space for sawdust chips to accumulate while the blade is still in the cut.

The tip is that does the cutting. This is why inconsistent tip height and tooth set will make for very poor blade performance (having nothing to do with the gullet) (also why carbide inserts are only brased on the tip and have nothing to do with the gullet)

If you dont like my expliation, here is a great vid telling you everything you need to know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bmws4hDGgg