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Coffee Anyone?

Started by YellowHammer, January 10, 2016, 09:44:54 PM

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YellowHammer

I was at a log yard this Friday and I noticed a small pile of eye catching logs with some very deep root beer color and tight growth rings.  I asked the logger what they were, and he said he wasn't sure, but his loader operator identified them as Coffee tree logs, and they were the first he'd seen in 40 years of logging.  So with me not knowing anything about them either, naturally, I bought them ;D

I brought them home, did a little Googling, and figure they are Kentucky Coffee Tree logs, otherwise known as American Mahogany, among other names. If someone else has a better ID I'd be glad to hear it.  Maybe @WDH can make a ruling.  I sawed them up today, in the snow flurries, so I could see what they looked like inside.  Here is a picture of the logs (with a little pile of cherry sticks in the background) and of the end grain and lumber, which looks real nice.  I did notice the side wood was pretty clear, but as I got deeper in the log, defects started showing up.  I'm not sure how its going to dry, it seemed pretty well behaved coming off the mill.  The tract of land they are logging supposedly has a couple more of these trees, which I'll try to get.
       




YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Cazzhrdwd

I sawed and dried some years ago when I was doing custom work. They have a nice shine to them when planed. I can't remember it doing anything weird. I remember it being quite hard when sawing and molding.

I still can't believe the cherry you get, very nice. What's that going for now in the log?
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Dan_Shade

My grandparents had 4 of the trees on their farm.   I have always found them fascinating.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Ocklawahaboy

Neat logs and lumber.  They and the cherry are indeed impressive.

WH_Conley

I lean toward Coffee Tree, don't see much here in Kentucky. If that is in fact what they are they should behave nicely.
Bill

mesquite buckeye

I have a few of them at my place. They do have a tendency to get hollow centers. Sure are pretty though. The bark is pretty beat up to tell what they looked like standing, but the wood looks right. Get one of the pods and you can be sure. Big stubby fat and thick. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

SwampDonkey

You sure they aren't sassafras? It (lumber) looks a lot like ash, like I'm seeing there.  ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

SwampDonkey

Looking at my keys here coffeetree is close as well to ash.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I don't know the behavior but the grain you sawed looks nice.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

WDH

Yellowhammer saws a lot of sassafras, so I suspect that he would know it if it was sassafras.  The wood sure looks like Kentucky Coffeetree to me. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

dustyhat

Never got ahold of any coffee tree ,so i cant say , but it sure has a strong resemblance to sassafras.

chickenchaser

Could always do a scratch-and-sniff to eliminate the sassafras.  ;)

A few years ago, my dad and I were pondering a fenceline in need of maintenance. After years of walking by a group of trees, I realized they were sassafras. I was dumbfounded, as they were (are) at least 15"DBH.
I asked him - to confirm my wintertime tree I.D. He said they were indeed sassafras. I asked why I had never seen any that size around...always scraggly ones up to 6"-8"?
His reply - "We cut the rest for fence braces."  ::)

CC
WoodMizer LT35HD

JD 3720 w/loader. 1983 Chevrolet C30 dump. 1973 Ford F600 w/stickloader. 35,000 chickens.

YellowHammer

I saw and sell a lot of sassafras.

The bark on these logs is flat and flaky, almost like cherry, not "fluffy" and raised like sass. It also has a much redder, deeper grain and no real discernible odor when we were sawing, unlike sassafras where it takes days to get the root beer smell off of me.  ;D
The grain does have some of the distinctive markings of sassafras and I'm wondering if it will have the same chatoyance.  I'd like to get some seed pods but all I got was the logs.

Is Kentucky Coffee Tree as rare as people around here think or are we just on the edge of its range?I'm wondering about selling price...

@Dan_Shade, what made them so interesting?  I'd like to know more.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

SwampDonkey

Yep, well you probably have it (coffee tree) then.  :) Those three species however all look to have similar grain in lumber photos.  ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

dustyhat

It must be pretty rare here in ky. because i aint never got to see one .and  i log for a living :D

Larry

When I lived in north Missouri I sawed quite a bit of it.  No demand for the lumber so the logs sold for pallet log prices.  I could discount it a little from red oak and move it.

I'm not sure if it was the area or not but shake was in a lot of the logs.  Had to watch careful as to what I bought.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Dodgy Loner

Awesome find. I would concur with the KY Coffetree identification.  :)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Solomon

Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 11, 2016, 06:38:37 AM
You sure they aren't sassafras? It (lumber) looks a lot like ash, like I'm seeing there.  ;)

Sassafrass would be my opinion as well.   I concure with Swampdonkey.
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

The Path to Salvation is narrow, and the path to damnnation is wide.

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Solomon on January 11, 2016, 10:41:38 AM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on January 11, 2016, 06:38:37 AM
You sure they aren't sassafras? It (lumber) looks a lot like ash, like I'm seeing there.  ;)

Sassafrass would be my opinion as well.   I concure with Swampdonkey.

So you don't think YellowHammer knows how to identify sassafras? ??? He says he does, I believe him.

FWIW, coffeetree looks a lot like sassafras, but doesn't smell anything like it. They are very simple to tell apart if you're sawing them. Not to mention the bark doesn't look anything like sassafras.
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

cbla


SwampDonkey

I would be inclined to trust someone that deals with a lot of sassafras. He's probably seen lots of variation to. However initial comments are often made with little knowledge of what someone else saws or knows about species. As far as bark on that one log, it may or may not be easy to see the characteristics for a determination. Be that as it may, all three species of lumber looks close when you don't have access to other gross features: smell, end grain, buds....etc.  Not all ash is "white" like on baseball bats. We have a lot with medium or darker brown heartwood with a greyish cast once it's been exposed for awhile. Certainly not choc brown like walnut unless it's rotten. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Dodgy Loner

Of course, SwampDonkey. Your suggestion of sassafras was very reasonable given the color and grain patterns in YellowHammer's pictures. I was just wondering why people were still suggesting sassafras after YellowHammer confirmed that it was not sassafras:

Quote from: YellowHammer on January 11, 2016, 08:33:06 AM
I saw and sell a lot of sassafras.

The bark on these logs is flat and flaky, almost like cherry, not "fluffy" and raised like sass. It also has a much redder, deeper grain and no real discernible odor when we were sawing, unlike sassafras where it takes days to get the root beer smell off of me.  ;D
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

mesquite buckeye

The coffeetrees on my place are scattered and the trees only seem happy in fencerows, forest edges and if on the top of the canopy. I'm thinking they are not super fast growing if not open grown, and very high light requiring. That would cause them lots of problems with ever being very common. I bet with the large, (apparently) edible pods that this tree falls into the megafauna dispersed group of trees of which would have at one time made up much of the American temperate savanna. This group would at the minimum have been comprised of Kentucky cofffeetree, Osage orange, Honey locust and I'm sure many others I can't think of at the moment that have lost much of their original ranges with the extinction of giant ground sloths, mastodons and mammoths.
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

kantuckid

I'm in E KY and see one now and then mostly on roadside, never as a woods tree. Sort of like cherry in location. That's not sasafrass! it would have the smell as stated. The board pics also show like red elm -grain & color wise. I'm a woodworker too and have used some sass. and it is greenish/gray when dry. I have a tree that i'm gonna drop, it's gonna saw maybe 1x8-not as big as they get further south. I worked with a guy said they had one when he grew up big enough to crawl into on a rainy day-was in NE KY.
I've seen a couple of coffee boards and even had some I got mixed in a pile off an old house I tore down. It's not really that hard  and works good in cabinet work. I would rave about it as a wood but has special interest at that.
AZ has coffee trees, hmmm...
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Kbeitz

As a kid I drank many a gallon of sassafras tea.
Now thay say it's not good for you.
But I still like it.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

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