Tree Farmer C4 fuel issues

madmari · January 09, 2016, 06:21:44 AM

Working a new to me C4 (1966) with a 254 Ford industrial diesel. Ran good on Wed, started good on Thursday morning, idling away and then sputtered and quit. I pulled the fuel filter, which was full of ice and dirt.
Put in a new filter, primed, bled and it started, but only for a minute. Repeated the procedure three times, same result. The fuel pump is pumping fuel because when I bleed above the pump, there is good pressure.
Any ideas?????

Logger RK · January 09, 2016, 06:58:55 AM

Did u happen 2 bled the injector pump itself? I had a similar motor in a Can Car Harvestor (which was renamed Hahn Havester). I do remember if I ran it out of fuel it was a project 2 get up & running. I snapped a crank on it & repowered with a 353 Deitroit.

madmari · January 09, 2016, 07:04:26 AM

It's a Simms pump. Is there a bleeder on it?

madmari · January 09, 2016, 07:12:57 AM

I cracked open the injectors at the head and cranked until fuel dribbled out and then closed them, one by one. Again, she just runs for a minute and sputters out of fuel.

Logger RK · January 09, 2016, 07:17:59 AM

I forgot 2 add,if it's similar 2 what I had,the injector pump bleeder was on the flat surface facing out. I was ready send the 1st part of this message & c u say it's a Simm's I believe. Not sure what mine was but it was a German Diesel Ford Industrial Motor.

madmari · January 09, 2016, 07:25:22 AM

Thanks RK Logger. I am 90 miles away from home and getting further behind and frustrated with this. Gotta get to work!

Logger RK · January 09, 2016, 07:29:58 AM

If u had a picture of the pump that would b good. I'm new 2 this computer stuff myself & haven't figured that out yet.

madmari · January 09, 2016, 07:38:50 AM

Here's a pic

madmari · January 09, 2016, 07:44:05 AM

Made my icon the pic?

madmari · January 09, 2016, 07:46:09 AM

The pic is in my gallery. I can't get to this page, but you can see it in the gallery.

HiTech · January 09, 2016, 07:47:00 AM

If you had ice in the filter perhaps there is ice in the tank. A piece floating around blocking the fuel momentarily. Maybe some Power Service or K-100 would help.

grassfed · January 09, 2016, 08:19:39 AM

I agree with HiTech it sounds to me like you may have ice but your fuel could be gelling and clogging your fuel filters too.

If it was me I would drain the tank and change the filters again and then fill the tank with kerosene. If that works good then make sure in the future you buy fuel from a dealer that has a good winter mix.

When I have gelled fuel I put it in my house tank for my hot water heater or burn it in a salamander heater in my shop.

OntarioAl · January 09, 2016, 08:21:16 AM

If you found ice and dirt plugging your filter your fuel in the tank is contaminated with the same. Your fuel intake in the tank is could be choked off by floating debris.
You have to blow out the fuel line from the tank to the fuel filter this should remedy the fuel supply problem.
You will have to resign yourself to sooner or later draining and cleaning your fuel tank
Hope this helps
Al

beenthere · January 09, 2016, 09:53:48 AM

Quote from: madmari on January 09, 2016, 07:46:09 AM
The pic is in my gallery. I can't get to this page, but you can see it in the gallery.

Regards your pic problem, there are three uploaded in your gallery.. all alike. So no need to keep loading the same one.
Remove two, and then click the one remaining and it will enlarge. Right below that enlarged pic will be the instruction how to paste it into your post. Shout out if this doesn't work for you.
Don't delete a pic that has been used already in any of your posts.

madmari · January 09, 2016, 12:30:58 PM

I treat my fuel with additive, the filter was on this when I bought it. I should have changed it earlier- coulda, woulda, shoulda. My dumb move.
If I pressurize the tank with air, I guess I could clear the line that way.
Pain in the butt.
Two days down fartin' with this.

grassfed · January 09, 2016, 01:02:51 PM

QuoteI treat my fuel with additive

I have learned the hard way that additive will not change summer fuel into winter fuel. I don't mean to contradict you but I have had additive treated fuel gel on me many times and in many different machines. It helps some but not on the below zero days like we had last week. If it started and ran after you bled the injectors and changed the filter and then died you probably either have ice or gelled fuel.

Syphon some fuel out and check; if it is at all cloudy it is gelled and can clog the filter. If you have ice it can get into the fuel line and also plug up mechanical lift pumps. I had this happen last week on a tractor and I had to take off the nylon fuel line and warm the lift pump with a heat gun.

I cannot see from the picture where the bleed fitting(s) are but they should be near the top of the injection pump because that is where the air will collect.

madmari · January 09, 2016, 01:07:45 PM

There is a large brass screw on top. Maybe thats it. I hate to go turning things I know nothing about. Need to educate myself on this motor.

gump · January 09, 2016, 01:20:49 PM

there are two bolts below the four fuel lines, 7/16 or 1/2" if I remember correctly thats where I bled it from. Not the two in the picture below the throttle lever, just above that. There is also a what I call a cold weather start on that pump, not sure if you are aware of it..I think it just dumps more fuel in the injectors, but not sure all I know is it comes in handy!

gump · January 09, 2016, 01:23:45 PM

That "cold weather" boost is that little lever in front and slightly above the throttle lever. Just push that lever ahead and depress the button on the lever and it is engaged. you will here a click when it is engaged. HTH.

Logger RK · January 09, 2016, 01:33:47 PM

U could take the line from filter 2 injector off & c if u have good fuel flow going 2 injector pump. Mine had lever on the pick up pump that u can pump with ur thumb. From ur pic I can't tell if ur's does. But if no lever just spin motor over. Nice 2 have somebody spin motor while u c if it's a good stream. If u have good flow there it probably not a tank issue. Also did u change the gasket on filter housing when u changed filter? If u did,did u take the old one out first? I had a guy change fuel filters 4 me years ago on a Dietze (or how ever they spell that brand)air cooled motor. He left the old gasket in & I come out 2 landing & he was starting 2 take injector pump out. It would idle but run no faster. I pulled filter off & dug old gasket out & we were up & running. If ur high tech u probably could google that injector 2 c which or if there's a bleeder. If u unscrew that brass one a little with out taking it all the way out u should b able 2 tell if it's a bleeder. It's been about 10 years since I had that motor in so not 4 sure.

gump · January 09, 2016, 01:40:07 PM

From the photo it looks like the little hand pump is there. it is the silver unit on the lower back end of the block.
it looks like(hard to tell from pic)that the thumb lever is intact as well. Your right RK, if you are alone pump it up with that thumb pump and bleed from the screws I mention before. If you have a helper just turn the motor over to bleed.

OntarioAl · January 09, 2016, 01:50:08 PM

To clear the fuel line from the tank to the lift pump you blow air towards the tank. Pressurizing the tank will only force tank borne crud into the fuel line.
like other posters have mentioned you are going to have to get the old fuel out of your tank and replace it with new clean fuel.
Al

C5C Tree Farmer · January 09, 2016, 02:23:01 PM

Is there a second fuel filter assembly somewhere on the machine? On a machine of this age primary and secondary fuel filters are the rule of the day.
When I got caught with the tanks full of #2 diesel during a severe temperature drop I blended 1/2 qt of saw gas per every 5 gal of #2 diesel that was in the tanks. Worked quite a bit better than Powerservice etc. Of course this was done on older mechanical injection equipment. Learned this from an old trucker.

madmari · January 09, 2016, 07:32:12 PM

Ok, I found the diagram showing the bleeder screws. My fuel pump does have a lever, which I have become intimate with over the past days

The brass screw on top is an oil filler port ( had no idea this pump needed to have the oil changed). I'm hoping when I get back to the machine on Monday I get this resolved. I just filled the tank with clean fuel the day before the issue started, and the filter ice may have been water from long ago.

I do appreciate all the help. Learning is coming at a high cost on this machine.

HiTech · January 10, 2016, 11:31:43 PM

That doesn't really look like the 254 cu. in. Dorsett diesel I have. That injector pump may be getting oil directly from the engine. On my 254 the fuel pump is connected right to the injector pump. Also the injector pump is connected to a shaft coming out of the engine with a large love joy type connector. In that pump you have to change and ad oil separately. My fuel pump runs off the lobes on the injector pump shaft. This is a short shaft fuel pump. Yours maybe a long shaft pump seeing it is run off the crank. On the on/off fuel lever we both have the cold weather starting button. Push the button in and move the lever till you hear it click. My pump is backwards to yours. Take your pump and turn it around and you have mine. My pump can be driven at either end. Mine is a Simms.