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wood mizer sharpener setter

Started by logman 219, January 06, 2016, 08:10:00 AM

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logman 219

is any one useing wood mizer  BMST50 sharpener setter combo machine??? do they work well and ease of set up??the price seams within reach of small operations!!!

Jemclimber

I too am interested in this combo machine.  I hope someone that has it will chime in.
lt15

landscraper

I have been contemplating buying one of these as well.

The only user I could find who seemed to give any constructive feedback was CharlieA in this thread https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,82944.0.html

His complaint was the spillage of the grinding oil through the notch for the handle.
Firewood is energy independence on a personal scale.

FloridaMike

It's been 13 months since a reply to this tread... and I'm looking at buying one of these.  For the $$$ looks like a good deal.  I will only be doing my own 1.5" blades, with fairly low production levels.  Are the BMST50 WM Sharpener & Setters worth the $1,295 (plus the stone)?

Are any of the listed WM grinding wheels the one I need to order (see below):
    4/32 (+$175)
    7/34 (+$175)
    7/39.5 (+$175)
    9/29 (+$175)
    10/30 (+$175)
    13/29 (+$175)

Mike

Nomad

       Mike, you'll need a wheel for each different style blade you decide to use.  So for example, if you decide you want 4 and 10 degree bands, you'll need one wheel for each.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Kbeitz

For someone like me that does not know.... Does the first number
of this stand for the deg. of the blade? And what does the second
number stand for?

    4/32 (+$175)
    7/34 (+$175)
    7/39.5 (+$175)
    9/29 (+$175)
    10/30 (+$175)
    13/29 (+$175)
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

MartyParsons

 Hello,
    Here is a picture and information about the blade profile.  The second number in 4/30 is the degree of the back of tooth and is not lettered on the picture.

Hope this helps.
Marty




 

A. Tooth Spacing - the distance between each tooth from one tip to another. The term "pitch" is also used in reference to tooth spacing as the number of teeth per inch on a bandsaw blade.

    Shorter spacing is used for resaw purposes, while wider spacing is for higher horsepower (25+HP) sawmills

B. Gullet - the area between teeth that captures and removes sawdust while providing strength in the tooth. The tooth height must be tall enough to allow the gullet to carry out all of the sawdust from the cut.

C. Tooth Height - the distance from the lowest point of the gullet to the tip of the tooth.

    Blades designed for cutting softwoods (balsam, aspen, cottonwood, sycamore, pine, and poplar) have taller teeth
    Blades designed for sawing frozen logs or extreme hardwoods (white oak, hard maple, ash, hickory, and kiln dried) have shorter teeth

D. Hook Angle - the number of degrees that the tooth face leans forward of 90 degrees. The hook angle should be chosen based on the type of wood you are sawing.

    4 degree: frozen or extreme hardwoods on all sawmills
    7 degree: frozen, tropical, and extreme hardwoods on higher horsepower (25+HP), wide cut sawmills
    9 degree: seasoned, hardwoods for lower horsepower sawmills making narrow cuts on smaller logs
    10 degree: all purpose for a mix of hard and softwoods on all sawmills
    12 degree: medium to softwoods
    13 degree: softwoods

E. Tooth Set - distance the tooth is bent beyond the body of the blade.

F. Blade Width - distance between the tip and base of the blade.

    Wider blades for higher horsepower (25+HP) sawmills and a faster feed rate
    Narrow blades for lower horsepower sawmills and more difficult sawing

G. Blade Thickness - you guessed it! Thickness of the blade.

    Thicker blades (.045", .050", .055") provide faster feed rates and better cutting performance in difficult sawing conditions such as knotty, frozen, dry or extremely hard material, but requires higher horsepower (25+HP)
    Thinner blades (.035", .038", .042") provide longer flex life with lower horsepower sawmills where production or speed is not a primary factor

H. Kerf - the width of the cut.
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

FloridaMike

Great info!  I understand the degree info (better now), what I am asking is:

A) Is this a good sharpener and setter for a low volume sawyer maintaining approximately 40 bands?

B) Assuming the answer to "A" is yes, is there a better grinding stone (wheel) "of the correct size" available from somewhere else, or is Wood-Mizer the place to buy both the sharpener/setter and the stones?
Mike

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: MartyParsons on February 21, 2017, 07:13:51 AM
Hello,
    Here is a picture and information about the blade profile.  The second number in 4/30 is the degree of the back of tooth and is not lettered on the picture.

Hope this helps.
Marty

Is the second number in 4/30 for the back of the tooth,  degrees from horizontal or vertical?
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

MartyParsons

Hello,
   I think it would be vertical.  smiley_whacko

M
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

gmmills

      I first saw the BMST50 sharpener at a show over 2 1/2 yrs ago. Happened to be there with another fellow sawyer that also maintains his own blades. We looked at the machine and shook our heads in disgust. Both agreed it was a big step backward in CBN blade maintenance. Let me qualify this statement listing the CBN sharpeners I currently own. I have a older model Shop Series CBN Sharpener, Pro Series CBN sharpener, and a just recently acquired BMS 250. All three of these machines have fully automatic blade advance and shut off features. This allows the user to set the machine up and walk away. It will shut down when the blade is finished.

      Now let me elaborate on why I do not like the BMST50 sharpener. Some of you do not realize that a oil cooled CBN sharpener there are always airborne mist of oil and fumes. With the operator having to manually advance the blade and also lower the head they are always in direct proximity of the fume cloud. Not good. The grinding motor is also under powered. It will take two trips around an .045 blade to get it properly sharpened. Thicker blades will need additional cycles to sharpen the blade properly. If you value your respiratory system, save some money and invest in a BMS250. The 250 is more powerful and healthier machine to use.

     The setter is an issue all of its own. It does bend teeth to set, but then again so does a pair of pliers.

     There is another company to buy CBN grinding wheels from.  I have been using wheels manufactured by the Rixsaw company exclusively for over 3 yrs now. Great quality product. If interested, contact fellow member Cutting Edge. He is a direct distributor for Rixsaw CBN wheels.
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

MartyParsons

Hello,
   The BMST50 is designed to sharpen blades for the user who is sharpening blades for a hobby, it is not designed to sharpen 100 blades a week. We tested the BMST50 at our location. It did preform well as designed. I would not want to compare it to the larger 200 or the 250. It is in my opinion it is better than some of the dremel tool designs out there.
You will be operating the machine, you will not be putting the blade on and go do something else. It does sharpen the blade with a CBN wheel and it does set the blade, nothing fancy. It would work best with blade thickness .045 or less. .055 blade should not be used in a hobby setting but it could be done with a few grinds. I do have a customer who is sharpening .055 blades in WV. I have called him a few times checking in and he seems to be happy with it.
  I you had operated a larger CBN sharpening system then purchased a BMST50 you would turn your nose up and not be satisfied. If you had time in the evenings after a sawing session it would do the job and do it well.

Hope this helps.

Marty
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: logman 219 on January 06, 2016, 08:10:00 AM
is any one useing wood mizer  BMST50 sharpener setter combo machine??? do they work well and ease of set up??the price seams within reach of small operations!!!
Logman how many blades do you need to sharpen? 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

logman 219

how do you compare a manual sharpener to a automatic  model??? your breathing sawdust and motor fumes what is the big deal???

terrifictimbersllc

I try to  and recommend anyone else avoid breathing sawdust, motor fumes, and minimizing exposure to CBN grinding oil.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

terrifictimbersllc

Bibbyman made posts here about being sensitive to the Woodmizer grinding oil and evaluated alternatives which worked better for him.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

xlogger

I was thinking about getting a 250 and see they are on a sale now. Is this just a sale price or is it going to stay the same for awhile? Also on wheels, I've got a deal on some 7/8 Simmons blades awhile back but will probably in the future get some 7/8 Kasco blades from Cutting Edge. So would the same stone work on both?   
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

terrifictimbersllc

I see the BMS 250 at $1895, saying "new low price". So I don't think that's a  temporary sale price.

It's a grinding wheel is particular to the exact profile of each blade. You will need a separate wheel for each profile. Seven eights inch describes the spacing between each tooth, not the tooth profile.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

xlogger

Yes I know that, should of said both are 7/8. Just wondering if the same profile would work.
Timberking 2000, Turbo slabber Mill, 584 Case, Bobcat 773, solar kiln, Nyle L-53 DH kiln

Ga Mtn Man

From what I've read, if the profiles are close it will work but you may wear the grinding wheel unevenly doing it.  Ask Cutting Edge.
"If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy." - Red Green


2012 LT40HDG29 with "Superized" hydraulics,  2 LogRite cant hooks, home-built log arch.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: xlogger on February 24, 2017, 06:35:12 AM
Yes I know that, should of said both are 7/8. Just wondering if the same profile would work.
Not sure if I was communicating effectively.   The shape of a CBN wheel is the shape it is going to grind. And each time it goes up and down it grinds the whole profile at once, so in setting each blade up one makes minor adjustments so the whole profile is ground evenly.  I would't know whether a Simmons 7 degree is same as Kasco 7 degree (I just picked 7 as an example), but I'd be surprised if so.  If they were exactly the same then the wheel for one would suit the other.  If they were similar but not the same then the wheel would slowly change the profile till it became constant but like mentioned above there would be more wear on the wheel at points where more was being ground.  I wouldn't consider grinding different profiles with the same CBN wheel.  Just as one would have different cams for a drag type grinder, to suit each gullet/tooth profile, so one needs different CBN wheels for each.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

FloridaMike

Lot's of good info!  I can live with the new price of the BMS250 sharpener, but the combo with the BMT250 setter is more than I want to spend.  With that said, what is best deal around for a manual dual tooth setter?  Is a Wood-Mizer BMT 150 a good choice or Cooks #123-038.  Both are about the same price. 

Mike
Mike

terrifictimbersllc

Did you consider the BMT200 Setter?I could not recommend getting one without gauges from my experience.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

FloridaMike

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on February 24, 2017, 03:03:07 PM
Did you consider the BMT200 Setter?I could not recommend getting one without gauges from my experience.

I did, but a BMS250 & BMT200 is $3,790.  The BMS250/BMT250 combo is $4,390 ($600 more).  A BMS250 & BMT150 is $3,090 ($700 less). 

To tell the truth, I have not ruled out getting the BMST50 and using a respirator while sharpening... taking the time to do all of the sharpening and tooth setting manually.
Mike

bandmiller2

A fella has to figure how much milling he's going to do $3000/4000 would buy scads of new bands that could be treated like disposables. It is entirely plausible to use a new band until it won't cut and then just throw it out. Bands can be ground on a modified bench grinder and usually can be sharpened a couple of times without setting. If your a hobby miller it may not pay to sharpen. What I consider the cut off is if you mill for hire often, sharpen, if strictly a hobby dispose or find someone to sharpen your bands. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

jimbarry

I bought both the bmt250 setter and the bms250 cbn sharpener this past week. I probably won't be milling enough to pay for it on my own so I'll be offering sharpening services once I figure out what I'm doing. :)

starmac

I could probably do a little bit of sharpening bands for individuals, and can see it offsetting the cost of the equipment, But I have to wonder if it would justify the time it takes? It seems like it could easily cost a person to sharpen someone elses bands for what a guy could realistically charge to get their business.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Percy

Quote from: FloridaMike on February 24, 2017, 06:14:49 PM
Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on February 24, 2017, 03:03:07 PM
Did you consider the BMT200 Setter?I could not recommend getting one without gauges from my experience.

I did, but a BMS250 & BMT200 is $3,790.  The BMS250/BMT250 combo is $4,390 ($600 more).  A BMS250 & BMT150 is $3,090 ($700 less). 

To tell the truth, I have not ruled out getting the BMST50 and using a respirator while sharpening... taking the time to do all of the sharpening and tooth setting manually.
Im not a fan of that expensive oil that is used/recommended for the CBN sharpeners. I discovered a guy could use hydraulic oil insteadn when I ran out of the smelly stuff and a new pail was days away. I use  the lighter hydraulic oil(32) exclusivly now in my BMS250. You dont even have to put the hood down if you dont want. There is a bit of misting but you cant smell it even. CBN wheels seem to last as well as with the smelly expensive stuff ...Just my opinion....
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

jimbarry

Bit the bullet and finally bought both the automatic sharpener and setter a couple weeks back. Good info in this thread. Has anyone looked into small filter systems for dealing with the airborne mist?

  

 

jimbarry



Learned overnight that putting in a little more than 2 inches of oil in the sharpener's pan is not the best idea for a mobile stand. Apparently it spilled out the back when I bumped into it on my way out of the shop. So I will be reducing the height of the dam, which by the way, is working nicely as catching debris.

Peter Drouin

A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

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