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Hit it in a log, whatisit?

Started by Jeff, March 22, 2002, 08:28:00 PM

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Jeff

I thought this was a slug, but it seems too hard. It was several inches within a red maple. Shows no sign of distortion like you would expect with a bullet. It is 1 and 1/4 inch long




Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

psychotic1

Looks like one of them there new-fangled saboted shotgun slugs to me too.  Don't know why it didn't squish though.  weird  Might be tungsten or zinc alloy.  Lead is verbotten don't ya know.

Bruce
Patience, hell.  I'm gonna kill something

Jeff

Its pretty hard and you can see by the saw marks brittle. Lead usually does not bother the saw, this did :(

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

psychotic1

How heavy is it?  I've heard of titanium being used in certain police and military ammo.  Wouldn't think it would be heavy enough to fly very far in a shotgun, but you never know.
Patience, hell.  I'm gonna kill something

Jeff

Its not that hard. I just took my little knife, and I can scratch it quite readily, but not like ammo lead, which you can usually scrape with a fingernail.

Ya know what? could this be the end of a ramrod? Maybe somebody broke it off, or it came loose from a wooden handle, then fired it out? if you look in the hollow in pic and to the left, you willl see a trace of wood.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

My first guess was some sort of fastener.  You know, the kind that you use to hang stuff on a wall when there is no stud.

I just can't visualize this thing being shot from a gun.

The hole in back isn't too deep but it gave me another idea.  It may be the head of a hunting arrow.  One of those blunt shock performing type of arrows used for squirrels and other small game.  The hole is deep enough for a glue joint to the shaft of the arrow.  The lack of weight and  hardness of the material would answer to this resolution as well.  :-/

Bud Man

I vote for the ramrod Idea, you'd know if it were lead  :P  But in the tree ? Maybe a whupping stick that a child hid in the crotch of a tree after getting a good whupping  ::)
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Tillaway

My moneys with Bruce.  It sure looks like a shotgun slug to me. :)
Making Tillamook Bay safe for bait; one salmon at a time.

Bud Man

I thought kabot slugs had a rifling twist grove in them !  Maybe a handle crank for a roll-out casement window ?? Was it in a knot hole, like maybe a squirrel or bird put it in  or was it in solid wood like it penetrated the wood ??
The groves were God's first temples.. " A Forest Hymn"  by.. William Cullen Bryant

Rick-Wi

It is a sabot slug. No rifleing is needed because the plastic that holds the slug grips the rifling on the barrel. when the slug exits the barrel, the plastic splits in half and separates fron the sabot, leaving the sabot to fly on its own. They are usualy a hardend lead alloy so the slug dosn't deform in the barrel, as the powder ignites. If it deforms it will not fly streight.

Rick-WI

Jeff

Rick, that was my first thought, I just could not imagine that it could penetrate a maple and never distort at all. Answering a couple things above, the wood was solid, no stain or anything around this. I had to use a screwdriver to get it out. And it does have weight. Its heavy like lead. And I do agree, that it must be a lead alloy. Its to hard for lead, but to soft to be a ferrus metal.

Rick I still feel your PROBABLY right, but here is the thing now that has me unconvinced. Its the wood fiber in the hollow. It should not be there. If it was a sabot, it should have been the trailing edge so when it hit the log is should not have had any wood in it. Look at the picture below. (Did i ever say how much I love my camera?)  you can see the remnant of wood fiber, and the grain direction. this is absoulutly straight with the object and looks like what would be left of an inserted wooden shaft, at least to me.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

JoeyLowe

 :-/My vote is against the sabot slug.  Most sabot slugs are rounder and will explode on contact with gelatin, much less wood.  I believe it is an arrow head.
--
Joey Lowe

"Working towards perfection has to be a part of anything one does.  You've got to put yourself into it." ... Sam Maloof (chairmaker)

Bibbyman

Could it be some kind of small-game arrow tip?  Is the wood in the base of some other kind?  

Your camera sure did a good job on the close-up.  I've got a new Canon Pro-shot 20A and am very please except when it come to a close up shot.  Maybe if I read the manual?
 :P
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Rick-Wi

There is no Question it is a Sabot. They make Sabots for everything from Black Powder rifles to shot guns. I use them for deer hunting and have seen them crunch Bone and not deform. As for how the wood got in the hollow end it could be that as the slug was penitrating the tree, it forms a vacume behind it (Balistics laws). The fibers of wood would follow the vacume till the slug stoped. and fill the cavity of the slug with the fiber. It isn't a arrow head because a arrow head that shape and size wouldnd do nothing but bounce off the tree. I have pulled sawn Miniballs from the cival war out of wood and they were not deformed. And That was in SYP.

Rick-Wi

Jeff

The fiber in the base does look different then the maple it was in, but it is in contact with metal, and exposed to the air, so I don't know if that would explain color diff.

Here are two more views. You can see that it appears that the hollow end must have been filled with wood at one time, lots of residue. It was not full of woodwhen I dug it out of the log.

BiB, does your camera have a macro setting for focus? thats what I am using here. Actually These are reduces to 40% you should see the un-edited ones!





Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

I am side steppin for one moment here so I can show Bibbyman the capabilities of this Sony. Here is a link to a picture of the corner of my eye. I put the lense right against my face. I did not use the zoom, though I could. I have optical zoom that would continue to stay clear. It would not degrade till I would use digital zoom.

I used a link to the picture, because I left it unoptimized to leave detail.

https://forestryforum.com/images/cornerofeye.jpg
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Bibbyman

Yuck!  That's too close – back up a little please.  ;D

Yea,  I suspect with everything else the 20A camera can do,  it will also do close-ups.  I've got to go unload a load of logs so I ain't got time now to check it out.  (Logger called at 6:30 – wanting to deliver today because bad weather is moving in.) :'(
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Jeff

Yuck is right! But the camera has allowed me to discover an unknown phenomenon. The uglier the corner of your eye appears the better looking you are. The corner of say, Tom Selek's, or Brad Pitt's eyes must be hideous.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Kevin

GROSS!

Jeff, can you mic that object for the outside diameter?

Jeff

I don't have a micrometer here but I do have ruler and it is just a hair shy of 1/2 inch in diameter.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Kevin

Seems too large for an arrow, might be a ram rod tip for .50 cal. which is common.
You`ll want to have the wood fibers carbon dated now.
It`s most likely a mixture of lead and tin with a little more tin content to make it harder than the ball but not too hard so it doesn`t  harm the bore.

Jeff

Kevin, that is what I am thinking. Kinda wonder what the scenario is that it ended up in the tree. You would think that if it was an assident tha it broke off in the bore of the gun, that it would have been during the loading of the rifle and there would have been a slug or ball there to. I guess the ball could have missed the tree.  

This is kinda like when I found the crosscut saw blade (bowsaw) in a tree. It was running verticle. Someone must have hung it to have it grown in lengthwise. Now that was hard! But I knew what it was after looking at it.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Texas Ranger

I believe it is a saboted slug called a "Block Buster" used to break engine blocks by police agencies.  Some one decided to use one on a tree, or a deer, with the results you see.  They are harder than lead being alloyed with zinc, or other metals to give a better impact.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

WV_hillbilly

Hi  Jeff,

  This is a sabotslug out of a 12 ga. shotgun. They were sold by Winchster. The reason there are no rifling marks is this slug is encased in a 2 piece sabot that seperates after exiting the muzzle of the shotgun.I have a few of these too but without the saw marks. I found them in the backstop of our rifle range.The little wooden plug at the rear is from the factory as all the ones I have also have them. It must have to do with the balance of the slug.


Hope this helps you in identifying your find,
                                                                WV hillbilly

Hillbilly

Bibbyman

This was a real showstopper.  Good thing we'd already put about 700 bf on the new blade.  Hate to have hit it on the first cut. ;D




Porcelain insulator in large walnut log.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

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