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372XP X-Torq Modding

Started by XP_Slinger, December 28, 2015, 08:16:01 AM

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ehp

I would say you got a air leak but there is another thing you need to check on these 365/372 xts, the fuel line is terrible in these saws and they get a hole in the line right where it comes out of the fuel tank , if you have never shorten the fuel line , pull line off carb and pull up easy on it and right where it goes threw the tank look real close for a hole , cut the line off at that place where it goes threw the tank and put end back on carb , the line is long enough in the tank to do this . I have changed every fuel line in my xts and is the only saw I have to do this to , some xt's I donot get 4 months out of it before having to change the fuel line

barton174

Quote from: XP_Slinger on November 24, 2016, 04:37:01 AM
If you weren't able to tune out the lean condition with your jetting adjustments I'd say a pressure test should be the first order of business.  Hopefully you didn't cut a hole in the intake boot while you were removing the strato dividers.  Best of luck

I can actually make it way rich (so much that it loads up at idle) with the adjustments, at least for the first 8-10 seconds at idle, then it leans out and dies. I can get it running right and idling right, as long as I don't just let it sit and idle for more than like 8 seconds between revs.

Quote from: ehp on November 24, 2016, 05:46:51 PM

I would say you got a air leak but there is another thing you need to check on these 365/372 xts, the fuel line is terrible in these saws and they get a hole in the line right where it comes out of the fuel tank , if you have never shorten the fuel line , pull line off carb and pull up easy on it and right where it goes threw the tank look real close for a hole , cut the line off at that place where it goes threw the tank and put end back on carb , the line is long enough in the tank to do this . I have changed every fuel line in my xts and is the only saw I have to do this to , some xt's I donot get 4 months out of it before having to change the fuel line

I will check the fuel lines, as well, thank you. I'll also eventually do a pressure/vac check, but I can only do a vac check with my mighty-vac. I need to figure out some way to do pressure, as well. I also need to figure out what to use to block off the intake and exhaust.

Thanks
Mike
Jonsered 490 - Stock
Echo CS-330MX4 - Mufmod + tuned
Husky 371XP - '99 model, Ported + Mufmod + tuned
Husky 550XP - Stock
Jonsered 2166 - "farmer jones"
Husky 365XT - "farmer Jones"
Husky 555 - Stock for now

ehp

get yourself a can of WD-40 with the straw part on it , set carb so saw will idle the longest you can, take the top covers off saw and have spray can ready , start saw and spray intake boot and around base of cylinder and transfer port doors with it running , if you got a air leak in these areas the saw will quit as soon as the wd-40 finds the hole , its fast way to find air leaks and it does work

weimedog

Dropped in as it looked like there was activity, have my "decked" (with the lathe) Huztl XT cylinder build about ready and assembled with 1184 out of shear defiance...:) The flange/"rib" at the lower transfer port area thickness is really what had me "split" the difference between lathe work & no base gasket to get what I wanted...but defiance sounds better. ( .018 squish, Intake 77 BTDC,  exhaust 100 ATDC, blow down 20 degrees. Gutted filter holder & boot. Muffler mod. left divider in the carb. Worked the "divider" on the intake to favor the case, raised the intake to match the  skirt at TDC, blended the lower transfers, etc. The Huztl AM cylinder has half the x-sectional area in the "X-Torq" channels where it intersects the cylinder wall..curious about how that will effect things. Had to raise the exhaust quite a bit. STILL don't like the transfers where they enter the cylinder, and how much lower they are relative to the top of the piston when they are opened at BDC....so widened them towards the intake side some. ) Cautiously optimistic. Just finished a couple OEM versions that run really well. Had this Huztl for a while. Needed a purpose, so its now a crash test dummy. No pics or vids  until either it grenades and makes a good bang or has lasted long enough to be worthy.

Sounds like this "tuning" issue is well covered by those who know that saw and build inside out! .... ehp's wd40 is a good "leak" detector. I've also used the non flammable brake clean products as they will stop that saw like an on/off switch when you find that spot when the "safer" wd wasn't in the shop. 

I had a saw once that would start on choke "OK" run and cut OK. Would drop right to an idle when the throttle was released after a cut as it should ... then idle nice for a few seconds then quit with a lean condition..rev up a bit then stop. Real Pita. First thought was carb diaphragm,  then compression (Except it STARTED), of course explored the leak concept....Turned out to be a kinked therefore partially blocked pulse line. When choked...got enough fuel to get started...at RPM's there was enough pulse strength often enough through the "kink" to supply fuel at RPM's....and at idle it didn't have enough to keep that carb full, hence the stall. An old Jonsered. It ran a whole lot better once that was set right. Puzzled on it for a while after fixing it, Realized that it would be *DanG near impossible to replicate that!

Actually I've fixed a few really erratic running X-torq's where the plug wire was arcing to the cylinder at the top couple of fins. Presents in all kind of ways to just confuse every one, and often not the same way from saw to saw. If After all the other more reasonable diagnostic approaches still produce frustration...look there. A solution is to cut a 1/4 inch or so off the corners (Just the corners!) of those  fins and make certain there is a clear 1/4 inch or more between the wire and the cylinder fins. That spot on the top cover holds that wire usually but especially on the older ones with a ton of hours they seem to lose the grip and let that wire wonder towards frustration.   Saw four or five of that from the 2012 era saws this last year or so.

Also rebuilt a few where the clutch side crank case bearings ate their nylon cages then chucked their balls into the motors.. now THAT presents first as an air leak at idle when the  cages fail and the crank wobbles a tiny bit being hammered by that taller / heavier than OE piston therefore more intense vibration. If not dealt with then; catastrophic failure. By the time that particular "leak" event effects normal running....start looking for metal. I've gotten to the point where if you have an older 372X-Torq with some time that has those bearings. Change them. And I don't care what the experts say. Just seen too many go through the shop....the MOST common repair I've seen other than crash damage from the loggers I support.

What that looks like:



Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Back to X-Torq. So now that the X-Torq channels are going to be full of mix....do we really care if the piston's channel gets exposed to the crank case if it's not going to bleed pressure into a bad place? Does that give latitude to work on that cylinder skirt? How about the intake port ... as the piston channel travels around half way down  the intake port, the other end passes the transfers & is closed....can we just widen that lower part of the intake port? Even though it now exposes the channel? Just asking... might just kill a Huztl cylinder or three to quantify the gain same or loss...Also considering the concept of simply plugging the X-torq passages from the intake port side.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

barton174

OK, so I looked and the pulse line isn't kinked. The fuel line was OK (though rubbing thin in one area, where it pivots inside the tank), but I did notice that the fuel tank holds pressure. I went to check the vent line, and the vent was unplugged at the tank, for who knows how long. I supposed I should replace this vent, being that seems like it's plugged. Probably not my main issue with the idling, but still should be changed, I suspect.



I'm also going to just replace all the fuel/vent lines while I've got it opened up. I know I can get them from Husq, but are there better lines to run? Also getting a new fuel filter, just because.

Thanks,
Mike
Jonsered 490 - Stock
Echo CS-330MX4 - Mufmod + tuned
Husky 371XP - '99 model, Ported + Mufmod + tuned
Husky 550XP - Stock
Jonsered 2166 - "farmer jones"
Husky 365XT - "farmer Jones"
Husky 555 - Stock for now

weimedog

Tank vent being restricted actually could present similar, but also would make things lean when cutting as well. But that's easy to check, get it fired up, put the chain brake on. lay it on its side & open the gas cap.....if it idles happily ever after with that open you found your boggle. Did you try to squirt some WD or Brake clean in the clutch cover to see if it shuts the saw right down at low RPMs (Chain Brake ON!) ? If you get an ambiguous result....pull that cover and B&C right off and then try again. If it does show a response, be thankful you found that now! And if it doesn't be thankful about the hassle you don't have to deal with! A "win win" situation. And if spray around under the clutch cover does nothng then try right around the intake boot and the base of the cylinder .. and don't be afraid to pull your cover when hunting for leaks with a spray can. Just do that wen you found a general area with the covers on...then can pull the cover for more access. Obviously you don't want that saw running long without it and therefore less air flow for cooling...just to hone in on suspected area.

Spray can diagnostics doesn't work well on the flywheel side with the covers on...that "turbo" Jonsered inspired feature sends it right to the air box...then the carb....and you get a false impression

But please over analyze that clutch side bearing / seal and if there are symptoms don't just replace the seal, get that bearing out too. Rather you be *pithed at me having you chase a ghost than have a bearing failure wreck a saw.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

barton174

Quote from: weimedog on November 27, 2016, 12:28:01 PM
Tank vent being restricted actually could present similar, but also would make things lean when cutting as well. But that's easy to check, get it fired up, put the chain brake on. lay it on its side & open the gas cap.....if it idles happily ever after with that open you found your boggle. Did you try to squirt some WD or Brake clean in the clutch cover to see if it shuts the saw right down at low RPMs (Chain Brake ON!) ? If it does, be thankful you found that now!And if spray around under the clutch cover does nothng then try right around the intake boot and the base of the cylinder .. and don't be afraid to pull your cover when hunting for leaks with a spray can. Just do that wen you found a general area with the covers on...then can pull the cover for more access. Obviously you don't want that saw running long without it and therefore less air flow...just to hone in on suspected area.

I haven't done the WD / brake clean thing yet. I was messing around with fuel/pulse/vent lines and found the unplugged vent line and started chasing that. I also have a vac/pressure tester on order, just to have. I also need to figure out what to use to block the intake and exhaust? Some 1/8" rubber material or something?

Also, any ideas on replacement fuel lines? OEM or others better?

Thanks,
Mike
Jonsered 490 - Stock
Echo CS-330MX4 - Mufmod + tuned
Husky 371XP - '99 model, Ported + Mufmod + tuned
Husky 550XP - Stock
Jonsered 2166 - "farmer jones"
Husky 365XT - "farmer Jones"
Husky 555 - Stock for now

weimedog

On all things rubber, when in doubt go OEM. Actually on all things if in doubt go Manufactures recommendation!

Did you try the "gas cap" deal??

For vac testing Husqvarna actually sells the "plugs" for exhaust and intake. I used a piece of "tractor supply" flat stock and a cut up tire tube for the exhaust. I have the intake side plugs so didn't have to innovate but yet again a plate between the carb and  intake is a possibility with your skills.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Just all that is going thru a LOT of effort when you really can get a sense with a spray can and other simple things. I use the vac test more to check my builds than in analysis actually be cause with a little history on those saws and some simple tests like we discussed you can find most of what ails them.

Add to what ehp said about fuel lines, my "history" with them when the problems were tough to find usually ended up with the spark plug wire too close to the cylinder, bad carb, or bad clutch side bearing to the point if I see a 2012 era 372 I go to the plug wire first and that bearing second JUST to eliminate them up front so I don't have to WORRY about them..:)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

barton174

I haven't done any other "running" tests because the saw is apart and I don't have any wood to cut for a couple months at least, and if I do, it's not like I don't have other saws I can use. I'll put fuel lines on it (order them) and the vac/pressure test tool will be here, as well. I've got OEM bearings/seals for my 1999 371xp that it didn't end up needing, so I'll need to check and see if those cross over. It's a 2015 2166, but I'm pretty sure it was used in production or something, because while it looks good, the piston has the machine marks worn smooth, and the rim sprocket has a pretty decent amount of wear on it. If there's any leak around the crank seals, I'll just tear it down and do bearings so I don't grenade the thing.

Mike
Jonsered 490 - Stock
Echo CS-330MX4 - Mufmod + tuned
Husky 371XP - '99 model, Ported + Mufmod + tuned
Husky 550XP - Stock
Jonsered 2166 - "farmer jones"
Husky 365XT - "farmer Jones"
Husky 555 - Stock for now

weimedog

2015 era should be ok but I just get paranoid with those saws and check anyway, and if there is an issue those 371 Bearings & Seals should work. Just need "metal" caged 6202 c3's

Husqvarna plugs:



Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Had to rob parts from my pile of junk 385's, one of them sacrificed the chain brake internals. Another 372 sacrificed its handle. Took an old 385 muffler that had a vibration crack all across the from then down under the was in the scrap pile. Brazed it up an plugged its original outlet and made another.. Took a carb that was known to be a little goofy from a box full of carbs in the back of the shop...they were headed to the scrap pile. I put new rubber in in and slapped it on this Huztl X-Torq. Put a Chinese ignition....tank handle, pull start, side cover, at first I thought it had an air leak. JUST before tearing into that I realized the cheap throttle cable was so stiff it wouldn't let the throttle close. So when I pushed it closed it sat and idled. Had to turn the carb adjustment screws way out. Two turns on idle and to keep it around 14k 1.75 on high. It did respond to those adjusters.. And would drop right to idle when I pushed the throttle closed. Longer it ran the smoother it got and then began to require me to take 1/8 turn in to stay idling and stay at 14k. It sounds kinda of funny. Jumps right to top rpm, just instant throttle response because I doesn't have a load yet.

Wondering if maybe it makes sense to blend a WJ 118 or one of those old 385 carbs to this saw. I have ten or so old 385 carbs. Not sure of their future...maybe this saw might be salvation from the scrap pile for one.

Where I set the high...a little more than 1.5 turns out & just a little "4 stroking" rap.


Where idle ended up at 1.75 turns out
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Some pics of yet another "ugly" saw build made from primarily Chinese and scrap parts. The bottom end is solid, "Nachi" brand bearings and OEM seals. But everything else is junk...:) But it runs. AND it holds vacuum BTW. Even though it has 1184 as a gasket...the question is for how long.. :D

It's on the left....a few details.....needs the plug wire shortened, top cover, really needs a fresh carburetor!
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Kind of like an old dog rolling in cow crap, walking into the nice clean house and shaking it off, isn't it! But it has that initial feel to be a strong build.....we will see. Think I'm going to compare it to the Huztl 52mm build I did, then go back in and gut that intake and cut those skirts. :)

I might have a bit more than $200 into that saw. The only things I paid for was the original 2166, $80 bucks. The bearings & seals. And the Huztl plastic & $60 dollar top end
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

XP_Slinger

Glad to see you're experimenting with the XT again bud.  Anxious to see how your "dog covered in cow crap" runs... :D. I bet it will be impressive.
346XP/NE
357XP...ported by MeDremel
372XP/XT...ported by A. Burr
Homelite (Solo) 340

I'd rather be in the woods than on this computer.

weimedog

Not sure how impressive! But its been an adventure. But so was Cyclops, the Huztl 52mm saw this will replace...that other is in retirement.

Have a bug or two to work out. The carb's throttle return spring can't overcome the cheap AM throttle cable so it doesn't shut all the way unless I go and push it shut....and when it does, it will sit and idle nice and steady at around 2600. Also I feel as if I'm at the limit of what that carb can do. I maybe wrong but it feels like It could use a little more fuel up in that high rpm under load. I set it around 14,200 as that's when it begins to "four stroke" rap a bit. Then set it to 13,700 and its past 1.75 turns out. Also I don't have much faith in that AM ignition...:) but I think its ready for some wood to see where it sits in the stack. Investigating if a WJ 118 might be a good move.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

XP_Slinger

Quote from: weimedog on November 27, 2016, 09:16:45 PM
Not sure how impressive! But its been an adventure. But so was Cyclops, the Huztl 52mm saw this will replace...that other is in retirement.

Have a bug or two to work out. The carb's throttle return spring can't overcome the cheap AM throttle cable so it doesn't shut all the way unless I go and push it shut....and when it does, it will sit and idle nice and steady at around 2600. Also I feel as if I'm at the limit of what that carb can do. I maybe wrong but it feels like It could use a little more fuel up in that high rpm under load. I set it around 14,200 as that's when it begins to "four stroke" rap a bit. Then set it to 13,700 and its past 1.75 turns out. Also I don't have much faith in that AM ignition...:) but I think its ready for some wood to see where it sits in the stack. Investigating if a WJ 118 might be a good move.

Did you advance the timing at all?  If not, that may help with your top end power.
346XP/NE
357XP...ported by MeDremel
372XP/XT...ported by A. Burr
Homelite (Solo) 340

I'd rather be in the woods than on this computer.

weimedog

No haven't messed with timing yet, just wanted to get it running and "debug" both the chassis and motor to where I have a solid test bed to work with. Its ok right now. I think its a fast bakery (cookies) but I'm not certain it has the grunt I like. Won't know until I run it for a few tanks to tweak and break in.

This saw literally built from scrapes around the shop, some 372, some AM, some 385. All were headed out to the trash as I won't use the stuff on saws that count. :) And I need to clear some stuff out...we are ripping the roof and trusses off right to the walls and building a new structure to more "formalize" the shop.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

barton174

Jonsered 490 - Stock
Echo CS-330MX4 - Mufmod + tuned
Husky 371XP - '99 model, Ported + Mufmod + tuned
Husky 550XP - Stock
Jonsered 2166 - "farmer jones"
Husky 365XT - "farmer Jones"
Husky 555 - Stock for now

weimedog

Yup and they are a rather significant upgrade I might add...
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

barton174

Quote from: weimedog on November 27, 2016, 11:49:31 PM
Yup and they are a rather significant upgrade I might add...

Yeah, I saw there was a 14krpm model and a 26krpm model, and they're about the same price, so makes sense to get the 26krpm ones.

Thanks,
Mike
Jonsered 490 - Stock
Echo CS-330MX4 - Mufmod + tuned
Husky 371XP - '99 model, Ported + Mufmod + tuned
Husky 550XP - Stock
Jonsered 2166 - "farmer jones"
Husky 365XT - "farmer Jones"
Husky 555 - Stock for now

weimedog

Quote from: XP_Slinger on November 27, 2016, 07:43:29 PM
Glad to see you're experimenting with the XT again bud.  Anxious to see how your "dog covered in cow crap" runs... :D. I bet it will be impressive.

Actually it will be impressive if it compares favorably with those "OEM" saws....why?? Lets review:

Huztl AM Cylinder & Piston.
"No Name" AM ignition
Smashed 385 Muffler
AM plastic, rubber parts like fuel lines, carb kits, and air filter.
OK crank from a blown up saw.
NO gaskets, just goo to seal up the top end

SO using "conventional" logic this *DanG saw shouldn't run! And if it does, not for very long. SO my goal was to split the "performance" difference between "work build" saws done with good parts and a stock saw... If we do as well as a "OEM Work Build", AND it lasts long enough to make it to my saw retirement home and not the trash; that's going to be on the border line of impressive.  :)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

weimedog

Cheap ignition lasted 1/2 hour and died, why it was in the junk pile because that's been a predictable thing with those cheap things. Put an "OEM" black one in. No idea what it came out of. Spliced a longer plug wire...and the saw runs better....everywhere.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

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