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easement:got a bad neighbor?

Started by Buzz-sawyer, October 10, 2004, 10:44:49 AM

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Buzz-sawyer

(maybe instead of sayin BAD in TITLE I should of said un friendly and vindictive)


Well,

First off,
I tell every neighbor I have that if they need my help to call me .Ill be ther if at all possible.....I live in a secluded woods and feel we need to be helpful and count on each other cause police or fire is at least 1/2 hour away...I like being friendly , jawing and occassionally chewin the fat with any neighbor...would like to be friends......
Now the story....

I was wondering , anyone ever tried to get an electrical or other easement from a neighbor, only to find out they were not actually , "Neighborly'? ;) :(
I have some non tenant city people on my south side who refuse to give an easement, even though it will save MANY hundreds trees, and MANY thousands of dollars, only 1-2 poles would be needed and 300' of wire , 1 tree cut,

otherwise HUNDREDS of trees cut and thousands of feet of wire......basically desimating a wood lot...
the son  said ,"I will not ENTERTAIN the idea........" I offered him to name his price into the thousands ..............NO WAY......
Some deal ,huh??? :o :o :D :D
Any body found a solution to this kinda problem....Dont wanna grip or be a cry baby, just need electricity at the new house we built ourselves kinda an emergency of sorts......
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Haytrader

How far is it from his house to the property line?
You might consider a generator with no muffler sittin just yer side of the line.

 ;)
 :D
Haytrader

MemphisLogger

I'd go to the local planning board and/or utility and see about getting them to force the easement by emminent domain. Then your neighbor will be sorry he didn't take yer money.
Scott Banbury, Urban logger since 2002--Custom Woodworker since 1990. Running a Woodmizer LT-30, a flock of Huskies and a herd of Toy 4x4s Midtown Logging and Lumber Company at www.scottbanbury.com

Buzz-sawyer

UL
good suggestion but we have NO planning board, and the utility is the source of our trouble.....the do not require cooperation in installing new services as a pre requsite to getting power so it is every man for himself...they send me to get a easement they drafted sighned and notorized, then I have to cut the trees...........seems crazy, there is no easement for utilities along public roades either :o :o ??? ???
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Buzz-sawyer

Haytrader
Now dont get me going that way :D :D...its takin all my strenght not too  :D :D :D 8)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Tom

The other side of the coin is "I did it"  I was confronted by the Rural Electric company to cross 105' of my property to keep from having to install poles 1000' from the hard road to the new house next door.  That was 15 years ago and my place has been a nightmare since.

Once I said yes, the new "neighbors" ceased to care that they had a neighbor (unless they needed something).  They went bankrupt and the new owners have accepted the right-of-way as something that they are due and I had nothing (charity-wise) to do with giving to them.  The local electric company bought out the Rural Electric area and now I have big trucks tearing up my driveway regularly.  they drive on my newly planted trees, cut trees that are in the way and act as if I'm a rental on THEIR property.   The other service companies that use the poles are even worse.  They answer to no-one and lease the use of the poles.  I wish I had never said "yes".  It doesn't take you long to figure out that you made a mistake when you give up access to your property.  "They" gain and "You" lose.  There is no recourse legally to damage on your property because rural property to urban judges is worthless.  Power companies, cable companies and telephone companies just laugh at you and tell you to put up signs and mow your property so they will know where the "Yard" is located.   Tree Farm?  They have no idea what woods are, much less a plantation. It's all weeds.

I know it's not what you wanted to hear but I won't do it again either.

beenthere

Would you care to describe the property you have that needs electricity for us?  Length, width, location from existing power, etc. ?  You have our interest now.  ???

Tom's experience is very close to mine too. Now the Ice Age trail is being pushed into everyone's lap.  Another land grab that will provide the 'lonely trail in the woods" for the wolf (rapist) to grab "Little Red Riding Hood" (girl jogger) -- when will we ever learn?   ???
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Ironwood

How about offering to go underground instead of overhead?
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Arthur

Reid has the right idea.

when we built our house the only power the locals had was by their own generators.  Lots of noise.

we had four poles put in across open fields and a transformer paid for by us and 5 others.  The electric company comes round every two years and cuts down anything growing under the wires.  Its taken many $K in court to require then to only cut trees that will actually damage the wire.  They where leveling our fruit trees which only grow 3m high and cost many $K to put in..

When we had the house put in they required a 6m wide cutting 700m long through old forest and $25K ($3000 per pole) to wire us up once we had done the clearing.

I ended up paying $2500 for a local bobcat contractor to dig a trench through the woods and lay three phase cable.  total connection and cleanup cost us lessthan $10K and you wouldnt know where the cable was is it wasnt posted.

Buzz-sawyer

Tom I hear what you are saying, however if everone took that position NO ONE would have power here.........since 1939 ALL power in our county has been granted by neighbors to neighbors..........it is not a right to drive or trespass ..power only thats it. No egress.
Reid
He is unwilling to go under ground or allow me to cross a 50 foot lane either.
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

jgoodhart

Neighbors across the way had the same problem, solution, 1 large and real loud generator parked as close as possble to you nighbors house. He will never talk to you again but you will have power.

beav

   this may or may not help. It would cost as much to run thousands of feet of utility line as it would to buy and install a solar electric system. Then no bills, no meter-readers, or neighbors hooking onto your line.
  I did it and it works. I have a diesel Generator for no-sun periods and large loads. A half hour a day on the generator charges the batteries during protracted cloudiness in the winter.
   Seven years and counting on my system. Of course a good southern exposure is essential. If you're interested I can point you in the right direction and expound further... ;)

Corley5

I denied my neighbor access to my power.  If I had he would have saved enough money on the electric to build a longer driveway and build behind me >:(  He and his Dad speculated that I'd let them tap into my line for nothing when I'd paid to have it run 2/3s of the way across my forty.  The power company also wanted to tap into it to run underground to his new house which wasn't built where he had planned.  They told me that I'd be reimbursed half of what I paid if it was built less than 5 years before.  Never shoulda told me that.  It was almost seven ;)  He ended up running underground quite aways ;D  There's more to this story than just the power issue.  We got off on the wrong foot from the beginning when he and his Dad TOLD me I was going to let them have power and it's been down hill ever since.  He finally caught on that I don't want to be his friend and his house is for sale 8) 8) 8)  I hope he sells it but his asking price is way oughta line  :(
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Buzz-sawyer

So Corley
What is the moral of the story for my situation??? :)
I respect thier right to say NO WAY NO HOW........
I have waited and prayed about this for some time not wanting to be rude or put them in a bind.........
If I was in thier position I would NOT want to be pressured or bulied, I have not done that. I simply asked as a neighbor.........
Most all my other neighbors are decent and I WOULD try to help em.........
I would also NOT cooperate if I felt they were trying to threaten me  or be pushy ....just goes against my nature..... ;)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Corley5

I don't know ;)  If my neighbor would have approached me differently I may have reacted differently but I also knew that he wanted to build behind me so that was a strike against him before I was told that I was going to grant them power.  I try to be neighborly too and there are few people in this area that I would say no too.  This guy next door would always recieve a NO.  After I sent him a copy of Michigan's Right to Farm Act with the part high lighted about running up to 750 hogs with no special permits required he changed his tune.  Maybe your neighbors would like some hogs  ???;) :D ;D  You could set up a methane system to run your generator ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

GHRoberts

It is poor form to call people poor neighbors because they act like you would act in a similar situation.

I don't know who owned their property first but ...

You know you had a costly electric access problem either when you bought your property or when their property was for sale (when they bought it rather than you buying it).

You chose to do nothing until you needed to impose on them for the easement.

Buzz-sawyer

Corley dont even joke about it.....I love experimenting with alternative power, .... 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

BUT have decided that I have to be a bit practical about this, it takes a fair amount of work to keep the alternative systems up....I just dont have the time to give to that..

But HOGS are good eatin....maybe just a few hogs and my diesel generator with a mega phone welded on where the muffler goes ;) ;D ;D
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Buzz-sawyer

GHrobert ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
You are incorrect in your assumptions pertaining to the particulars of my land aquisition and subsequent related details......


Around these here parts, folks just seem to get along by helpin out.......... :) :) and there is a STANDARD of friendliness, based on sharin and doin to others as you would have them do to you ..........
it is centered in the Judeo Christian roots of a community where people once depended on each other to survive....
Bad form is a tree class ;) :) :) :)

Welcome to the forum please feel free to jump on in...
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

etat

A few  years back I  sold less than a 1/4 mile right of way to a gas company for a 'lots' a money.  Pretty much as much as I I paid for the whole 16 acres two years before. ;D  

First guy that come up and made a piddlin, insulting offer made me mad and I run him off.  Heck, he said he couldn't negotiate anyways and kept telling me that land weren't no account fer nuthin but a pasture anyways and I'd still be able to use it after they buried their line.

One day in the 'hot' summertime I come home and a couple a guys in white shirts wanted to talk to me.

I kept em out in the sun long as I could before I'd even talk to em about that there right of way.  Kept talking and changing the subject the whole time. Them guys was a sweating up a storm and a wanting to get back to that air conditioned car they was in.

I finally let em  ask just what it was I wanted fer that right of way.  Wouldn't a been but just a little ways on over to the fence line, told em they oughta run it there, it'd cost em less.

Well, they kept insisting I come up with a number to take back.

I made em walk over there with me and I  spent another 20 minutes bragging on that piece of ground and finally gave em my price. Tole em not to come back without a check.

I 'FIGURED' they'd make a counter offer and we'd wind up meeting in the middle somewheres.

Danged if they didn't call a couple of weeks later and tole me they had me a check, fer my asking price!

Heck, it'd a just crossed my land over on the other end a ways, 'and' it really weren't much good except for pasture.

So, I took their money!



 ;D Fore they ever run any of their cross country gas line they went 'belly up' , broke, kaput and must a lost their funding or something cause they ain't a gonna be running no natural gas line.

Shore would like to get that right of way back so's I could sell it again one a these days!!!!!!!!! 8) 8) 8)

If it'd a been a neighbor though instead of a smart alecky gas company I'd a might a looked at it different.

Buzz, I do hope ya get it worked out fer the best.

 


Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Cedarman

When your neighbor said no, did you ever find the real concerns they had about giving you the right of way? My approach would be to hear their "no" and then say " I hear your , no , and would like to understand your reasons and feelings for it. They have their reasons, emotionally or logically for their actions. If you can gain that understanding, you may be able to negotiate, at any rate you will have a better understanding of your neighbors.  As you demonstrate a willingness to get along, they may relent. Forcing them would be a last act in my book.
In negotiating, your neighbors must come away with something that is useful to them. It seems that money is not their motivating factor.
Just some thoughts on my part.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Buzz-sawyer

Thanks CK ...(I think???) :o :o :o I though your message was gonna be, "Stand in the sun a lot and pay the guy a lot more thousands than I had originally offered :D :D :D :D :D

Cedarman
THANKS, now that is some good wisdom!  8) 8) 8) 8)
I had a 3 step plan, and it matched what you said to the letter,
first simply ask ,
second try to find out why not, and see if I could fix the problem (GO underground, give them money, jugle 3 chainsaws etc.)
Third use other means available.....legal, other routes whatever....
Some sound advice from you Cedarman..... :)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Larry

Buzz, you and Cedarman have the best plan.

I did a fair amount of right of way acquisition for a utility company.  I got no answers for the following reasons.
Landowner is a nut (very very small percentage).
Landowner had previous bad experience with a utility.
Landowner is scared an easement will hurt the future value or resale of their property.
Landowner is scared easement will prevent future building.
Landowner is afraid the utilities ugly poles will hurt the esthetics of their property.
Landowner wants every penney they can get.

I could normally work around one way or another with all of them except for the nuts.

Utility companies like to write easements that are cheap and what I consider dirty.  They are called a blanket easement which gives the utility unrestricted access to all of the landowners property.  A good easement with a few restrictions can be written just about as easily.  An example would be "strip of land 30' wide adjacent and contiguous with southern most property line".  Confines the utility to that 30' strip of land.  I have written easements with some really off the wall restrictions at times.

You might also see if the power company has a right of way agent that could assist you.

In your case 300' easement is less than one typical power span so shouldn't be any poles on the neighbors property unless it is something unusual.
                                                                  
Good luck.  Sometimes it would take numerous meetings with the landowner to alleviate there fears and get an easement so make sure you don't burn any bridges when you meet with your neighbor.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Buzz-sawyer

Good info Larry
I havent been able to find out yet the REAL problem...the actual owners of the property have no problem with us...thier son who is part of a land trust these folks created is the one who is unwilling.
He was very rude to me on the phone when he called to tell me to get the OTHER neighbors to do it, "Why should he?"
I held my piece and said, I knew he was in his right and that I understood my needs or problems were not his concern......His parents are nice people but will cow to this Bully type person.

As far as utility help. The staking engineer has worked against me 2 times. When the owner called him as I suggested, the power guy said he changed his mind how the lines should run and that , he wanted it to go down the road, trouble is the power company policy is , "EVERY man for himself" each person is responsible to get easement and cut trees for himself.....
So it might be preferable to go down the road, but 7 other people have to co operate and sign easement  and 100s of trees get cut.....Utility wants nothing to do with the process of getting the easements done....who will do it ....ME.....as a last , last resort.that is...
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Cedarman

Buzz-sawyer, thank you.
What kind of utility serves you? Is it an REMC or a Public Service type?  My REMC is as good as gold. They make good money off me selling electricity to my mill, so that may be their incentive.  It might be that a friendly chat with a few government officials might make the utility more friendly. Since they have a  monopoly they are subject to certain laws that may help you.  Just another thought.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Buzz-sawyer

Cedarman
We have a membership co-op here and its a small one only serving 3-4 counties..............
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

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