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UPDATE WITH PICS!! 036 piston/cylinder swap into 034 or not??

Started by ReggieT, December 24, 2015, 03:13:28 AM

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ReggieT

Got the opportunity to buy a 034 AVEQ  for about $40 with a scored cylinder & damaged piston.
Was wondering about the 036 kit swap as opposed to going back with a 034 piston/cylinder kit.

My concern especially as a novice is the RPM's; the 034 registers 13,500 RPM's with 56.5  cc's, while the 036 comes in @ 10,500 RPM's & 61.5 cc's.
Will the loss in RPM's in the 036 negate power in the cut?
Also the bore is bigger on the 036.

What has been you guys experience with both saws and what are your suggestions...who offers the best deal on rebuild kits?
Just trying to work smart and not hard or stupid!  :P

Thanks
Reg
BTW...MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY!! 8)

Well my Stihl Saw Shop wanted $150 plus tax if they put in new crankshaft seals.
I asked what about IF I buy it AS-IS?
$42.00 Total! BOOM!  8)
I'm going to change out the plug, air filter, fuel line, fuel filter, check the piston & cylinder for issues...other than the crankshaft seals what else would you guys suggest that I check?
This is my first project saw & I'm in NO RUSH.
Thanks for all the advice/suggestions.
Here are some pics...

Reg


  

  

 

ZeroJunk

Not sure where those numbers came from.  But, there is no difference in the working RPM of those saws other than the 036 will pull a little more at whatever that working RPM is. The swap is pretty simple. You will need to find an 036 muffler or put spacers between the muffler and the crankcase behind the bottom two screws. And, you will need to Dremel out a little of the plastic cross braces on the top cover. Not much to it.

ReggieT

Mike Acres Website - http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf/GasbyManufacturer?OpenView


   
Model: 034 AVEQ

MANUFACTURED BY:
   STIHL ANDREAS MASCHINENFABRIK
      STUTTGART, GERMANY
SERIES OR ASSEMBLY NUMBER:
   1125
YEAR INTRODUCED:
   1984
YEAR DISCONTINUED:
   
ENGINE DISPLACEMENT:
   56.5 ccm (3.45 cu. in.)
NUMBER OF CYLINDERS:
   1
CYLINDER BORE:
   46 mm (1.81 in.)
PISTON STROKE:
   34 mm (1.34 in.)
CYLINDER TYPE:
   Aluminum with chrome plated bore
INTAKE METHOD:
   Piston ported
MANUFACTURER ADVERTISED H.P.:
   
WEIGHT:
   11.6 lbs.
OPERATOR CONFIGURATION:
   One Man operation
HANDLEBAR SYSTEM:
   Anti-vibration
CHAIN BRAKE:
   Optional on Q model
CLUTCH:
   Centrifugal
DRIVE TYPE:
   Direct
CONSTRUCTION:
   Injection molded polymer, die cast magnesium
MAGNETO TYPE:
   Electronic
CARBURETOR:
   Tillotson HK-43A, B series
ZAMA C3A-S19, S31-E, S38-B series
MAJOR REPAIR KIT:
   RK-33HK for HK-43A, B
RB-31 for Zama
MINOR REPAIR KIT:
   DG-1HK for HK-43A, B
GND-21 for Zama
AIR FILTER SYSTEM:
   Nylon mesh cartridge
STARTER TYPE:
   Automatic rewind
OIL PUMP:
   Automatic, gear driven, adjustable
MAXIMUM ENGINE RPM:
   13,500
IDLE RPM:
   2,700
IGNITION TIMING:
   Fixed
BREAKER POINT SETTING:
   none
FLYWHEEL/COIL AIR GAP:
   0.2 to 0.3 mm (0.008 to 0.012 in.)
SPARK PLUG TYPE:
   Bosch WSRF, NGK BPMR7A, Champion RCJ7Y
SPARK PLUG GAP:
   0.51 mm (0.020 in.)
CRANKSHAFT MAIN BEARINGS:
   Ball
FUEL TANK CAPACITY:
   
FUEL OIL RATIO:
   50:1 with Stihl oil
RECOMMENDED FUEL OCTANE:
   Regular grade
MIX OIL SPECIFICATION:
   Stihl two-cycle chain saw mix oil
CHAIN PITCH:
   3/8 in.
CHAIN TYPE:
   Stihl



Model: 036 AVSEQ

MANUFACTURED BY:
   STIHL ANDREAS MASCHINENFABRIK
      STUTTGART, GERMANY
SERIES OR ASSEMBLY NUMBER:
   1125
YEAR INTRODUCED:
   1993
YEAR DISCONTINUED:
   
ENGINE DISPLACEMENT:
   61.5 ccm (3.75 cu. in.)
NUMBER OF CYLINDERS:
   1
CYLINDER BORE:
   48 mm (1.89 in.)
PISTON STROKE:
   34 mm (1.34 in.)
CYLINDER TYPE:
   Aluminum with chrome plated bore
INTAKE METHOD:
   Piston ported
MANUFACTURER ADVERTISED H.P.:
   4.5 B.H.P.
WEIGHT:
   
OPERATOR CONFIGURATION:
   One Man operation
HANDLEBAR SYSTEM:
   Anti-vibration
CHAIN BRAKE:
   Yes
CLUTCH:
   Centrifugal
DRIVE TYPE:
   Direct
CONSTRUCTION:
   Injection molded polymer, die cast magnesium
MAGNETO TYPE:
   Electronic
CARBURETOR:
   ZAMA C3A-S39-B series
MAJOR REPAIR KIT:
   RB-31
MINOR REPAIR KIT:
   GND-21
AIR FILTER SYSTEM:
   Nylon mesh cartridge
STARTER TYPE:
   Automatic rewind
OIL PUMP:
   Automatic, gear driven, adjustable
MAXIMUM ENGINE RPM:
   10,500
IDLE RPM:
   2,800
IGNITION TIMING:
   Fixed
BREAKER POINT SETTING:
   none
FLYWHEEL/COIL AIR GAP:
   0.2 to 0.3 mm (0.008 to 0.012 in.)
SPARK PLUG TYPE:
   Bosch WSR6F, NGK BPMR7A, Champion RCJ7Y
SPARK PLUG GAP:
   0.51 mm (0.020 in.)
CRANKSHAFT MAIN BEARINGS:
   Ball
FUEL TANK CAPACITY:
   
FUEL OIL RATIO:
   50:1 with Stihl oil
RECOMMENDED FUEL OCTANE:
   Regular grade
MIX OIL SPECIFICATION:
   Stihl two-cycle chain saw mix oil
CHAIN PITCH:
   3/8 in.
CHAIN TYPE:
   Stihl


   

ReggieT


Al_Smith

It's pretty much straight forward but with some alterations .

Using the 036 cylinder/ piston the top cover needs to be altered and spacers under the muffler are needed .Other than that you've in essence turned an 034 into an 036 or 034 super which is the same .

A little tip ,pay no attention to suggested  RPM's .They run what ever they run . An 036 by the way is a nice size firewooder .

simonmeridew

I put an aftermarket piston/cylinder combos in a couple of my 034's . These were the larger bore units, 48 mm diameter piston. Each on bolted in without modification or grinding. Not sure why, but covers and muffler fit without modification. Stihl may have made some 034 production with the 036 cover and just put the proper decal label on.
simonmeridew
Kubota L4400, Farmi 351

kantuckid

That's how I rebuilt mine with the Italian jug set. Jug sets-it's OE, Italian or Asian when I redid my saw.The aftermarket jug sets force you to make that choice to more cc's, otherwise your up against a big parts OE jug/piston price and illogical to rebuild the saw, even when doing your own work.
Mine is so much more powerful -it's hard to know, of course if the wear over time factor's at play or just a hot rod saw now. Like any egine they lose some with lots of use. I don't remember doing anything different to muffler as for spacers? The orange plastic alteration is easy peasy and very minor on mine.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

ZeroJunk

I think if you would tighten the cylinder screws holding the muffler you would find that the bottom of the muffler sits off the crankcase a quarter inch or so. You could likely pull it down with no spacers if that is what you wanted to do.

Al_Smith

The first 034/036 I ever saw was done by Dean.  AKA "klick" from Washington hotsaws that had made it's way to Ohio via Pa.The saw was moded,evidently long ported because it exhibited an unusual amount of torque for 61 cc.

I did one using a donor 036 used cylinder and an aftermarket piston .I probabley only ran it less than half an hour but it seemed to do okay .It got traded for a McCulloch 805 .

On my bench as I type is an 034 super,essentualy an 036 that will get a rebuild and a little soup when I find the time '

I think you find so many rebuilds using the larger cylinders is due to the fact OEM sizes are seldom sold because I've seen very few .

ReggieT

Wow guys...super information...this helps me to make some wise & informed decisions! 8)
Kinda inclined now to find an 034 super kit and slam that on.



Here are some of the ones I'm looking at:
I really like the 1st two...what do you guys recommend?
BTW...kit with decompression port or not??? ???

http://www.amazon.com/Meteor-Piston-Cylinder-Assembly-Chainsaws/dp/B004WSA8Z8

(Ebay ads removed by Admin, refer to forum rules)













Al_Smith

I've had good luck with Meteor products .


For 61 cc stock compression you really don't need a decomp .


kantuckid

As I stated above my jug set was Tecomec- Italian made. Honestly, too long ago to remember how the muffler fit up. At the time I looked I had a choice of Asian for a few dollars less (eBay sellers, Bailey's,etc.) or OE. OE jug price made the saw into a parts saw. My jug came from Northwoods Saw as below.
One things for certain, the saw now has power to spare! 

New Question is:
I just looked on www.northwoodssaw.com and the jug set description states there is no compression release port on the part. I found the release valve for sale as #MS460 or Stihl part $ 11280209400 @ $18.25 www.Treestuff.com-I sent them a msg asking if they know the fitup on Tecomec jugs?  Also @ www.forestershop.com for $12.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

ZeroJunk

I like the Meteor as well, but you are likely looking at $150 or better. The cheap ones will probably work OK, just check your ports and clean up any plating splatter or whatever that looks like it could come loose.

Kantckid, PM me your mailing address and I will mail you one.

kantuckid

Quote from: ZeroJunk on December 30, 2015, 01:05:39 PM
I like the Meteor as well, but you are likely looking at $150 or better. The cheap ones will probably work OK, just check your ports and clean up any plating splatter or whatever that looks like it could come loose.

Kantckid, PM me your mailing address and I will mail you one.

I'm wanting to see the top of the Stihl 036 OE jug so I can confirm the location of the valve hole. A picture will tell me to go for it or not...

RE the OP's post:
in looking on the web for the picture I wanted, I did see that there are a bunch of jug kit sellers out there, more than I thought. Just google "Stihl 036 cylinder set" for more than you need to know. Prices I saw ranged from way less than I paid to way more.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

SawTroll

Quote from: ReggieT on December 24, 2015, 04:24:04 AM
Yet...I now find this contradicting info!!

There are lots of mistakes/misprint on that site. The 036 is one of the "victims".
Information collector.

SawTroll

Quote from: ReggieT on December 30, 2015, 12:26:51 AM
Wow guys...super information...this helps me to make some wise & informed decisions! 8)
Kinda inclined now to find an 034 super kit and slam that on.



Here are some of the ones I'm looking at:
I really like the 1st two...what do you guys recommend?
BTW...kit with decompression port or not??? ???

http://www.amazon.com/Meteor-Piston-Cylinder-Assembly-Chainsaws/dp/B004WSA8Z8

(Ebay ads removed by Admin, refer to forum rules)

By all means go with Meteor if you go aftermarket. There are lots of crappy aftermarket kits out there...
Information collector.

ReggieT

Quote from: SawTroll on January 01, 2016, 03:52:16 PM
Quote from: ReggieT on December 30, 2015, 12:26:51 AM
Wow guys...super information...this helps me to make some wise & informed decisions! 8)
Kinda inclined now to find an 034 super kit and slam that on.



Here are some of the ones I'm looking at:
I really like the 1st two...what do you guys recommend?
BTW...kit with decompression port or not??? ???

http://www.amazon.com/Meteor-Piston-Cylinder-Assembly-Chainsaws/dp/B004WSA8Z8

(Ebay ads removed by Admin, refer to forum rules)

By all means go with Meteor if you go aftermarket. There are lots of crappy aftermarket kits out there...
Happy New Year Saw Troll!
Appreciate the feedback!
Now outta nowhere a Husky 288XP that needs oiler, fuel lines, and carb kit has come into play...HMMM!! ;) ::)

ReggieT

Here are pics from my 034...as I go through it with my neanderthal skills...this is arduous to say the least, BUT...it is quite intriguing!  :P ::)
This is my first time digging this deep into a saw.
From my limited experience...the piston looks ok.
The sparkplug was not burnt up up either...
All this saw is "suppose" to need is crankshaft seals... ???
Here are the pics:
Any thoughts???


  

  

  

  

  

 

Al_Smith

From the pics it doesn't look bad at all .Might not even need seals .Fire it up and see how it runs .If it ain't broke don't fix it .

ZeroJunk

Looks like they were wrong about the scoring. Like Al says, could be  wrong about the seals as well. If the saw will sit an idle indefinitely in the general vicinity of 1 turn out on the low needle adjustment it probably has a lot of use left in it.

ReggieT

That's what I've been hearing...how would I discern the need or not for crankshaft seals.
How idles or not...anything else?

Thanks

ZeroJunk

Ideally you do a pressure vacuum test on the crankcase. But, if it is much of a leak you are going to be chasing it with your carb settings trying to offset the extra air getting in there. I.E. it will be idling too fast or starving for fuel at normal setting and two stroking lean at wide open throttle at the normal settings. They are usually within 1/8 turn of what is recommended. Of course you can have carb issues instead that throws all that out the window.

deerslayer

The main problem with the 036 cylinder going on the 034 is that the cylinders with the decomp had bigger fins to compensate for the loss of fin area where the decomp needs a flat surface. This makes the cylinder fins protrude farther out and interfere with the 034 plastics. Either the fins or plastics need to be modified to get clearance.
Too many chainsaws, not enough wood.
Stihl, Husky, Craftsman, Mac, Homelite, Poulan. Some live here, some just passing through.

ReggieT

This piston looks to be in great shape...I'm sticking with it and...not attempt the 036 upgrade.
Going to pressure/vacuum test it sometime this week.

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