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Valmet 646 crane won't float

Started by supertrucker, December 19, 2015, 09:02:20 AM

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supertrucker

hey every one, I have a '97 Valmet 646 forwarder, the crane float stopped working and cant seam to figure it out. Ive tested the wires and it gets power to the magnetic coil, coil wont magnetize so I changed the coil and still dosent work. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks a lot.
2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

kiko

Does the coil have two wires, if so did you make sure the other one is grounded?

supertrucker

yep the coil does have 2 wires, one is the power coming from the switch and the other goes from the coil to what looks like an oil preshure sender on the engine, I tried grounding that wire but didn't seem to make a difference.
2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

kiko

With power and ground, the next thing to do is remove the stem the coil slides onto and activated the coil and see if the valve is moving inside.

supertrucker

I did try a different stem but didn't try it out of the valve to see if it moves I will try that next.
2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

snowstorm

i have a 646. had trouble with the coil to the gear box replaced the coil and all was good. where are you in maine?

kiko

Just throwing out some ideas here,  if the nut that holds the coil on is over tightened it can keep the spool from moving.  Should bet five to seven foot pounds.

supertrucker

2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

snowstorm

i have the wirring diagram parts book and what they called a tec manual if you want to look at it. your 15 or so miles away

snowstorm

what coil did you change?? the float valve is not on the rear next to the crane. take the side panel off on the right behind the front tire. its a ft wide 5' long 4 bolts. towards the motor is a valve bank that controls the diff lock gear box and the float its number 4. its not easy but it can be done. i replaced the gear box coil on mine

supertrucker

yea I changed the coil on the aluminum block under the cab for the float circuit, I have the parts book but not the tech manual, Id realy like to take a look at it, ware are you located?
2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

Pulpwood mafia

I took the wires off the oil pressure switch and taped them together on mine

supertrucker

what is the perpose of the oil sender wired to the crane float circuit?
2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

snowstorm

i have the wiring blue print. i only thing i see as far as a oil switch is a low level alarm. looking at this valve bank on the left side next to the tire. the coils are ft diff lock rear diff  loader float  2 sp gear box  fail safe brake . loader float shows 3 wires grn blk to one connector and lite green and grn blu going to another connector . did you replace the coil with a new one?

supertrucker

yep I replaced the coil with a new one and tried a steam out of the difflock witch I know works and no change. yesterday I talked to Flint and he told me to check the preashure at the block behind the tire, he said if the preashure is below 750 psi that the crane float wont work, I found some gauges and I'm gonna give that a try tomorrow morning and see what happends. I still think its an electrical problem but might as well rool out a preashure problem first.
2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

Pulpwood mafia

The oil pressure switch is for if the motor stops running the boom doesn't come crashing down.
I have also replaced the charge pump or pilot pump because it didn't maintain enough pressure to make the float work

snowstorm

Quote from: supertrucker on December 20, 2015, 01:10:21 PM
yep I replaced the coil with a new one and tried a steam out of the difflock witch I know works and no change. yesterday I talked to Flint and he told me to check the preashure at the block behind the tire, he said if the preashure is below 750 psi that the crane float wont work, I found some gauges and I'm gonna give that a try tomorrow morning and see what happends. I still think its an electrical problem but might as well rool out a preashure problem first.
my tec manual says 600to 650psi at the pressure reducing valve with the oil at 150degrees at 1500rpm. have you taken the shuttle valves out to make sure the orings are there? bolth primary and secondary when they go missing it will cause some weird problems

snowstorm

the engine oil pressure switch for the loader float has a grn blk wirefrom the engine harness

snowstorm

Quote from: supertrucker on December 19, 2015, 09:02:20 AM
hey every one, I have a '97 Valmet 646 forwarder, the crane float stopped working and cant seam to figure it out. Ive tested the wires and it gets power to the magnetic coil, coil wont magnetize so I changed the coil and still dosent work. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks a lot.
did you use a voltmeter? should be 13.7 while running. if it will not magnetize the new coil maybe you dont have the voltage it requires. the relays are under the panel where the tach is. watch the voltmeter when you flip the float switch it will move it takes a lot of juice to run it. dose the tach work? it works off the alternator no charge no tach

supertrucker

snowstorm I think you might have something with the lack of enough volts, I checked a the preashures and they are fine, the solenoid gets power with a test light like it should but won't magnetize, haven't checked it with a volt meater yet, but what I did do is check the alternator and that works fine, and I took the solenoid and wire off the transfer case hi-low stem and put it on the float stem and the float works with the transfer case switch, so its defenetly a problem in the float wiring, probly bad ground somewhere. 
2006 westernstar, 1989 LTL 9000, 3406B 425, 8LL, 1994 Stoughton chip wagon, 2011 John Deere 1510E, 2011 pmi trailer, 2003 serco 7000.

Smithjenee49

Anyway anyone can upload any of the diagrams? Float won't shut off...

snowstorm

Are you saying it will not go into float ....?

bushmechanic

Supertrucker you have power with a test light but that may not be good power, test the power with an old headlight, if it will light the headlight then the power is good if not then you have a power issue. One strand of wire will give you voltage but won't carry amperage needed to power stuff.  I'm thinking also that if the power comes through the engine pressure switch it could be bad too. 

mike_belben

i have an old KC offroader with alligator clips for this.  great load tester. 
Praise The Lord

snowstorm

the crane switch has to be on for the motor to start

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