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Spring Pole

Started by kiko, December 18, 2015, 06:06:28 PM

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kiko

Saw this on one of the jobs i was on this week. How would this be dealt with without a skiider?

  

  

beenthere

I'd attempt to pull the hung-up tree off the stump with my tractor and slide it out of the tree it is hung up in.
Looks fairly easy to do that.

Without a tractor, then a different plan.. depending on what is available. 

From the looks of the cut at the stump, there wasn't much preparation for that tree to fall anywhere else but where it did.
What is the story behind the faller? or don't know?

What about it suggests it is a spring pole??
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

kiko

Pulling it off with machinery is easy enough.  I don't know all the felling lingo, but that tree the cut one is leaning into sure looks like it is loaded to me.  So why not explain to those of us who have not been everywhere what exactly a spring pole is?

beenthere

Good question... but I think of a spring pole as one that has been pulled down to the ground by felled trees or blown-over trees and has considerable built-up tension/compression that when released will "spring" out of its place.

I guess one could extrapolate that condition to this tree that has one leaning into it. I could go with that explanation, but at first look it didn't occur to me to be a spring pole. ;)  no harm done.

The danger here is being under this pair of trees, and real danger if going in under and trying to cut out the one holding up the other.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

grassfed

That's not a spring pole just a hung tree. The GOL way would be to plunge cut a square hole about 3 feet up and stick a sturdy pole through the hole and use that as a lever to twist the tree toward the least hung side.

The way I would do it is NOT considered safe but I am comfortable doing it myself. I would step it down by bucking logs with the top of the saw under the tree until it was at a point I could push it over the other way.

Or course if you are going to skid it out just winch it down.
Mike

Autocar

A spring pole is a tree thats compleaty bent over from a bigger tree landing on it causing it to bow over from the weight. Your picture is a tree thats bent over a little from another tree laying in it. Spring poles are like a rattle snake there get you in a second. As kids we use to climb smaller trees and ride them down to the ground then the littlest kid would grab hold and then we would bail off and up the tree would fly with the little kid  hanging on for deer life  :D. If you take a small sapling bend it over 90 degrees or more thats a spring pole . Now think about a four to six inch tree bend that way real trouble in a hurry if your not familar what to do next.
Bill

kiko

Don't know much about the feller,  i can tell you  this crew normally uses a rubber tired buncher, but the saw would not come on and that is why i was there.  They were probably trying  to get that side of the creek finished up before the rain set in, which it did that night.  Thanks for the explanation(s) on spring pole.

chester_tree _farmah

The tree looks hollow but who made that cut? The tree it is leaning on gives you a good idea of what a spring pole is. There is a lot of energy ready to be released by that tree.

The safest ways without any kind of machine or pulleys etc would be the pole method discribed by grassfed. A Peavy would do the same. If you can't twist it out a pole can be used as a lever to lift the butt and let it slide away from the other tree. Repeat over and over till tree is down. That said I sometimes buck them down as grassfed describes which can be dangerous. A very dangerous method is to cut the tree the leaner is on which sooner or later will most likely get u killed. I admit I have done it but only with small wood.
254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

WV Sawmiller

   Lacking a tractor or skidder, I'd use a long cable and my ATV or truck from a safe distance away.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

lynde37avery

Pull on it with a machine is the real choice.  or maybe if no tractor then drop a bigger tree on the hung up one.  Never cut a loaded tree or branch. My brother got hurt by one in the face and he's never been the same since. 100s of thousands of dollars in surgery.
Detroit WHAT?

Gearbox

I'm with grassfed I would step it down then push it over by hand . It looks like you could cut off 15 ft. and handle it by hand .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Maine372

lacking mechanical means - I would start with a peavey trying to roll it out of what its hung in. if that failed you could use the stem of a smaller tree to lift the butt some and slide it away from the hangup.

loggerman1959

Try cutting one side of the hinge to see if it will roll off the hangar .

barbender

     Once those big hardwood tops get tangled together like that, I think the only way that is coming down is pulling it by some means or cutting the tree that it is leaning on (which I wouldn't recommend  :o) I'd like to see someone step forward and turn that tree with a peavey or lever, you will have my respect for sure if you can ;D I can see doing that with a straight conifer, but not a hardwood with a large top.
Too many irons in the fire

Neilo

I would look at what they do have, even if it isn't a skidder. Use the buncher, or a chain and a forwarder.

so il logger

Quote from: barbender on December 18, 2015, 11:04:18 PM
     Once those big hardwood tops get tangled together like that, I think the only way that is coming down is pulling it by some means or cutting the tree that it is leaning on (which I wouldn't recommend  :o) I'd like to see someone step forward and turn that tree with a peavey or lever, you will have my respect for sure if you can ;D I can see doing that with a straight conifer, but not a hardwood with a large top.

X2.......... There was no need in the tree getting hung up in the pic. Although it is a bad practice around here allot of guy's cut the supporting tree. That tree could have been swung one way or the other

mills

Maybe it shouldn't have happened in this case, but we all hang trees on occasion. First thing is to determine how stable it is. There's a good possibility that tree will take off like a rocket when the butt breaks loose from the stump taking anything you're holding in your hand with it. Same thing could happen while you're try to wrap a cable around it. Push it off the stump if there are any doubts.

timberlinetree

For me and like others mention ( done a lot of them on storm duty plus hung quite a few myself) make sure it is cut from the stump ( sometimes they roll right off). Then under cut every 4-6' until it stands straight and flops over. I kinda like cutting hangers. You know what your up against. Spring poles that you don't see while chopping while the mind is on something else and fling up and almost rearrange my face scares me! Work safe!
Sorry to here about your brother.
I've met Vets who have lived but still lost their lives... Thank a Vet

Family man and loving it :)

47sawdust

Picture 2 shows a large piece of equipment.I think that is the safest solution.
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

chester_tree _farmah

Looks like no hinge on the cut so no direction control.

I don't think anyone is suggesting literally rolling a tree like that right over and out with a lever. There is a chance rocking it with lever may dislodge it enough to improve the situation. That tree isn't that big where you couldn't move it with a good lever. If the tree is stuck to the stump you can make an angeled cut in the stump below the hinge so it will slide off the stump to one side and be free to move. Dangerous but it works.

Anyway - thank goodness for winches. :)
254xp
C4B Can-Car Tree Farmer
Ford 1720 4wd loader hoe

kiko

This hang up was not actually a problem as there was a couple of grapple skidders to deal with the hung up tree.  I was just curious how it would have been handled in the old days so to speak.  Thanks for all the replies.

Maine372

i didn't say it would be easy. comes down to determination and creativity. doing what you can, with what you have, where you are.

with enough lever you could move that butt a little at a time. if you moved the butt in an arc around the tree its hung in it should break loose. same thing if you were pulling with a horse or even man power and a block and tackle. that will pull easier to the side with a roll hitch than to pull in a straight line either hung on the stump or digging into the ground.

CCC4

W/O being there to see exactly how bad the top of the hanger was lodged makes it a little difficult.

Personally if I thought it would spin to the left, I would reface about 3' up with a slanted Humbolt placed at 45* of what its Hung in. I would start at the far corner and purposely miss my near corner with an elevated back cut and coming out 2inches high above the near corner. It should swing out by therory.

CCC4

Actually, that may not work, it could close up on yer bar pretty quick. I would still try it but be watching my kerf really close and have a back up plan of finishing the cut from the face and straight out the back.

John Mc

Quote from: barbender on December 18, 2015, 11:04:18 PM
     Once those big hardwood tops get tangled together like that, I think the only way that is coming down is pulling it by some means or cutting the tree that it is leaning on (which I wouldn't recommend  :o) I'd like to see someone step forward and turn that tree with a peavey or lever, you will have my respect for sure if you can ;D I can see doing that with a straight conifer, but not a hardwood with a large top.

I do it all the time, but instead of a peavey, I just bore a hole in the tree and slide a pole in the hole for leverage, then cut through most of the hinge, leaving one end to hold it to the stump, but still let it twist. Sometimes it takes a bit of rocking back and forth, but if it's not completely entangled or caught in a crotch, it works well. If the tree is hung dead center and tangled in the other tree, it may not work. However, usually the tree falling is caught on one edge or the other of the standing tree (which is what you'd expect - generally the faller is not aiming for the center of another tree) In that case, you can often get the tree to roll out of the hung tree. We spent a day intentionally hanging up trees and rolling them out like this during a Game of Logging Level 4 class (and tried a whole lot of other techniques for freeing a hung tree).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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