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Author Topic: Tree Maturity?  (Read 11340 times)

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Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2002, 07:23:04 pm »
   Yes, I have em. Got those when I was first thinking of buying, but (at that time) more with an eye to agriculture and garden or grain crops.

  The forestor also referred to them in the PLAN. But then he jumped to what IS growing there, not what the OPTIMUM would be.

  Cedar we ain't got, tho I just brought one down from up north last year. What is the specific species you're talking about, Ron, and what is its preferred zone? I think hemlock hits that niche in part of my area, but not in the specific piece I was thinking about. THAT is an interesting puzzle- both wet, but one has sphagnum, one not. One closer to the crick, one is an area of general 'seep'. The hemlocks do better in the higher- but wet- land. I wonder if it is a temperature thing also.

  I did finally figure out you weren't talking about CHANGING the land, but rather looking at a different piece. (I got my piece, now I got to understand it change it, or adapt to it- or sell and start over.  lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2002, 04:30:45 pm »
Now you're making me hit the books. :P

Have you ever tried any spruce, fir or larch?  Black spruce will grow in bogs, but only gets 6-12".  

Red spruce is found in swamps or bogs with black spruce, tamarack, balsam firs, and red maple, but doesn't grow well.

All of these species should be within your range.  I would look into larch (tamarack) and balsam fir for the swamp areas.  Larch is very intolerant and will not survive with any overstory.  Balsam fir is a very tolerant species, right below hemlock.  

I would shy away from hardwoods in wet areas.  My experience has been that they just don't have the quality as those grown on drier sites.  Usually there are a lot of sucker branches, and those are defects in hardwoods.

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Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2002, 04:43:07 pm »
   I agree by observation on the hardwoods. Hard rock maple gives way to red maple. Apple suckers like crazy, falls over (but doesn't die)- and yields fruit poorly. I will print out your post for a wish list- gonna look at what's there 1st. it's curious. Down along one part of swamp just transitioning to brook there is a SNOOTFUL of balsam. But in the area I was grumbling about there's none. I wonder if I should try to change that? I certainly want more balsam. My distillation efforts on it are likely to turn into an annual thing. I quite like the scene of getting people's Christmas trees and chopping/stilling as I have time. Just need to know about the bug-icide question. I recently was looking for something to scent some shower gel and got the notion to dump in some balsam fir essential oil. I like it a lot! It's been a LONG time since I made bar soap (not BEAR soap, bar soap..) but it might be nice in that too.    lw
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Offline Cedar Eater

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2002, 07:07:57 pm »
Lw, I've got some experience with swamp trees as most of my land falls into that category. I have very small amounts of eastern hemlock, black ash, black spruce and white spruce. I have large amounts of tamarack, northern white cedar, balsam fir and tag alder. The tamaracks are the dominant tree in the wettest marsh area next to the lake. They survived a several year flood (compliments of beavers) about five years before I bought the property. That same flood killed a lot of cedars and now my tamaracks are mostly growing in a bed of sphagnum about 18 inches deep with a fair amount of swampgrass. The cedar skeletons are still standing in much of the area. The cedars don't do as well in the sphagnum, but they do a good job of drying out an area slightly upstream that's seasonally wet and is just barely above the water table. The tag alders and balsam firs try to replace anything I cut down because the deer keep the cedar from regenerating. I wouldn't mind more black ash, spruce or hemlock, but the balsam fir is a weed I need to control. :(
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Offline Ron Scott

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2002, 03:18:06 pm »
It's very hard to grow trees on Hydric soils where the water table is high or near the surface for most of the year.

Mead Paper Company in the U.P. has scalped in some of their wetland areas with a "Kilifer" plow which cuts out a scalp and flips the top bit of soil over. They then planted tamarack on the top of the scalp (dry side up). This was an effort to put some of their wetlands back into timber production.

This is quite expensive and certainly a disturbance to the wetland ecosystem. Might be better to retain your unique wetlands, develop ponds, manage for wildlife etc. Not a good growth timber site.
~Ron

Offline Bud Man

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2002, 11:24:30 pm »
LW Might try growing bog plants and an assortment of water plants, tons of money in them. Unsure of adaptation to Maine's Winter though. Give www.lilypons.com a look see.  I'm going to do some tissue culture on Lilies and Hosta's sounds like they might be plausable and rewarding for your enviorn's ?  
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Offline L. Wakefield

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2002, 05:14:45 am »
   It's an idea..I do have an area that would probably work for that with a little development. The soil is sweeter and there is more light- there is a series of seeps that if they were a little better in quality might be dignified with the name of 'springs'. What I'd like to do in that area is turn them into a series of catchment basins.

  The 'problem area' I was visualizing back about 8 posts in this thread- the area I'd like to improve but think it's a tough go- has several vernal pools, and one has an old 'canal' dug from it to the brook. I don't know about the history here; if it wasn't really a vernal pool but really an ice pond or something and they had the canal so it could be blocked as desired. There is some sphagnum, lots of the more common green moss surrounding the area, lots of dead leaves from red (swamp) maple, and the water is always very black, I think from tannin. One would think your water plant idea could go directly to that vernal pool, but looking at the quality of the light, air, and water, I am not sure what plants would like it.

  That does remind me, tho, of what the local vet-cum-nurseryman was telling me about how he and his brother manage their nursery (he had spotted THE HAT when I took the dogs in to be checked, and we got to talkin..) He takes trees that he is planning to sell (seedlings) in pots and kinda sets them at the verge of a swampy area like that and they grow like crazy- self-watering more or less. I can't remember if it was cedar or what.

  When I did soil tests I hadn't gone this far into the lower lying tree farm areas. I'll get round tuit on that, as several have suggested. I did try cranberry in there, and basket willow, and they just haven't liked it. I was totally miffed at the willows' rejection of my plan ('hey, you're WILLOWS, it's wet here, what more do you WANT, anyway?' They weren't listening..)   lw
L. Wakefield, owner and operator of the beastly truck Heretik, that refuses to stay between the lines when parking

Offline YeeterSkeeter09

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2017, 11:47:16 pm »
Thank you for talking about the maturity of trees.  It really helped me.  I have my own company that surveys land, and it is called Natural Space.  Don't try to look it up because it is still in development.  We are also trying to get a website up, but we are having some technical difficulties.  Anyway, because we are surveying land, we need to have some background knowledge and this really helped.  Well off to deliver my report to the professor. 

Offline Cedar Eater

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2017, 12:21:27 am »
Wow, you just woke up a fifteen year old thread.  :D I was almost a complete noob back then.
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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2017, 08:49:57 am »
Welcome, Yeeter, fill out you information so we know a little about you, then pull up a stump and join in the conversation.
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2017, 10:08:23 pm »
I enjoyed that myself.  Glad it got pulled up from the depths.  And welcome.  Banjo
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Offline killamplanes

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2017, 10:27:30 pm »
Lots of good info. Here most consider 16 inch mature across the species. Of course rule of thumb.
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Offline larry1

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2017, 09:41:15 am »
Well here is my take on this . I am no forester but have observed many different cutting methods and philosophies over the years. So , I have a 40 acre, 99% maple stand of tress that are all about  14 -16 inches . My lot was clear cut in the 1940's to make charcoal for the steel mill. Some of the hard maple is veneer  but there is lots of soft and it's pulp/firewood . I had a very creditable forester cruise it and he tells me there is 800 bush cords . So, I'm 61 do I let it grow and pass it onto my kids .

I bought a 230 and planned on thinning it myself but the trees are so close together that I'm afraid to ruin the good ones, so I never cut a stick . I 'd sell everything if someone made me a good offer . The lot is accessible spring to fall unless you want to plow 1.5 miles of road.

The forester suggested that I clear cut it again and go back in 100 years for another cut . I really need to decide or do nothing and let it grow. My kids want to make a sugar bush and tap the bad hard maples and that's okay to but then you burn down the bush for heating the evaporator.

Up in this part of the country , maple should be harvested up to 20" because they get big hearts especially if they are growing on the north side of the hills. Oak are all usually pretty good up to any size . Yellow birch after 20" get hollow and white are don't usually get that big without dying from the top down . As for softwood , not any big stands where I am , but the white spruce mixed in where the hardwoods grows is always tall and sound.


Offline coxy

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Re: Tree Maturity?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2017, 05:12:41 pm »
larry1    I'm not trying to be a smart      but how do you know you have veneer  with out cutting them down first   and what is the benefit of clear cutting it if you have a good selection of wood    this fall I cut a 35a piece of land for the 4th time my dad cut it 2 times before that  and if things go right I should get 2-3 more cuttings before I'm gone  every time it gets cut I cut it to 14in  this last time it was mostly soft maple the next cuttings will be 90%cherry