Good idea to use pine logs with bug holes?

[Kelvin]

Hey i'm starting on the foundation to my new timber frame home out back, and i've been collecting trees.  I was just wondering about the pine logs i had that had been dead for awhile.  They have the typical holes that are pretty squiggly, about 1/8" or more in size through out.  Structuraly they seem fine, not rotten, but do these bugs persist like powder post?  Are they usually gone once the tree is dead.  How about using them for timbers in my new home.  The damage is mostly to the jacket lumber, so they make okay beams.  Should i avoid them?  The other question was about this great big soft maple i cut.  I needed a real big beam and was saving this 20' chunk just for it.  It needed to be something on the order of 12x12 for a summer beam.  Well when i sawed it up some stains made it appear as though it were twisted.  The bark didn't look twisted, and the grain appears to not twist, or a least not like these stains.  Should i avoid this beam as well?  Its very critical in the home, i can't see why the stains would twist there way up the log, while the grain would be straight.  Maybe it is as twisted as it looks.  Does this really effect its load bearing capacity?  
Does anyone know where to get simplified beam sizing and spans on the web?  I have real complicated ones that look like a calculus course.  I just want to know what i need to span 16' or 14'.  Thanks
for the help!
Kelvin

[sigidi]

Kelvin,

post a pic of ya beem so we can have alook at what ya workin with.

The other thing might be get a timber grader to have alook at it, folkes here would be able to help out with a name local to you

[BBTom]

Kelvin,
I have seen many maples where the stain twists more or less than the grain.  It shows up real easily in tapped maple.  the tap hole stain does not always follow the grain.  Would not think the stain has anything to do with the structural soundness of the lumber, but I do not know for certain.

[ARKANSAWYER]

If the stain twist to the right it will be ok.  If it twist to the left I would not use the beam.
   As for your beam you need to know your load to determin the size beam that you need.  Also if you post under it can the floor support it?  A 12x12x16' beam should be able to support approx 11,000 lbs.
ARKANSAWYER

[Furby]

Ok, I know I'm asking for it.................
Arky, what does left and right twist have to do with it???

[Jeff]

I was going to ask, but I just knew Furby would step up. ;D

[Furby]

 :D :D :D :D :D
Geeeee..................thanks Jeff!  :-/
 :D :D :D :D :D





I figured I steped into something deep!  ;)

[EZ]

If it twist to the right its headed to the heart, if its to the left, it leads out to your edges causing cracks.
EZ

[Minnesota_boy]

About the pine with holes, those are from a pine beetle and they attack a tree that is dead but not dry.  Once the lumber or beams are dry, the worms that cause th holes are gone or dead.  They cannot survive in a dry piece of wood.

[Kelvin]

So they would be fine as timbers in a timber frame home that relies on their integrity?  They look pretty good.  Thanks
Kelvin

[Furby]

Sorry EZ, I just don't see the difference.  :-/ :

[EZ]

Did you ever see an old house or barn beam that was crack almost in half. If so, this is or was a twist to the left.
EZ

[ARKANSAWYER]

   Sorry it took me so long to get back I have been bailing water here.
  Grand Pa taught me as did his grandpa him that if a tree twist to the left it should be left in the woods or used for fire wood.  Now it has been my observation that if you see a ole hollow tree in the woods most of the time it will be of left hand twist.  This may have been caused by Grand Pa and all the others leaving them in the woods. ???   But as a sawyer I have noticed that most low grade logs will have a left hand twist.   The majority of trees will grow straight to right hand twist.  The is to be a study some where that states this to be true but I have not read it personally.  Also noted on old log cabins if all the logs twist to the right they will all be moving in the same direction since to check they need to open up and must "unwind" some.  A left hand twist log would open up the other way and cause a problem with the cabin.  Same in timbers.  
  Now I am not sure as it needs more study but if you saw a left hand twist log on a waxing moon it may stay ok.  ???  ???  ;D
ARKANSAWER

[MULE_MAN]

OK

Now what's a waxing moon   ??? ???

[Timber_Framer]

So do the good logs in NZ and the land of OZ twist to the left?
You know like the bathtub drain ;D

[stumpy]

If you read the "Log Building Standards" as developed by the International Log Builders Association, The have very specific requirements for the use of Right hand vs Left hand twist logs. I don't completely understand all of the issues, but I believe the restrictions are based on log strength

[beenthere]

Interesting things found when searching "Spiral grain left tree" and one of the sites had this to say:

"The reasons for inclined grain have been debated for at least fifty years. Two commopn theories related it to the phyllotactic spiral of primordia in shoot aspices while the other attributed it to the angle of pseudo-transverse division in cambial cells. Others have considered the distribution of photosynthates and auxins to be involved while an alternative is the reaction to growth stresses as the tree enlarges. The angle of the grain changes throughout the life of a tree, often from 5 degrees left of the main axis to 10 degrees right in conifers; in some hardwoods interlocked grain implies a total change of direction from left to right every year or two. Whatever the cause, the net result is a decrease in the strength properties of solid wood when sawn with most properties declining proportionally to the angle of the grain at the edge of the cut surface.

Dr J Burley, Director , Oxford Forestry Institute ""

That said, if the tree starts out with left spiral, then it later turns to right spiral, then a timber with right spiral may be somewhat "balanced" when used for building. And as Arkansawyer was informed, if the tree has left spiral, it may mean that there is going to be trouble when the timber from this tree dries and twists badly because there is no right spiral to balance it. Just a thought.  But the quote above indicates no one apparently has the answer as to why a tree spirals as it grows.  

Strength of a timber is reduced anytime the grain angles sharply to the surface, edge, or corner of the piece, as I understand it.

[Murf]

Now this brings up an interesting thought.

Do they make Ardox spiral nails in left & right handed spiral so that you can use the right one depending on what kind of wood you have?  :D :D :D :D

On a serious note, I built a pergola over the patio beside the pool for "She who must be obeyed" last year, I used up all the 'holey' 2x8's I had on hand on for the cross-members, it gives it a really neat look.  ;D

[Furby]

Ok, ya got me looking at my logs now............................... :

[pappy]

MULE_MAN

It's a phase of the moon cycle. Waxing is when it's going from new to full and waning is from full back to new.


Here's a good link.
http://www.astro.umd.edu/education/astro/moon/phases.html

pappy

[SwampDonkey]

I'm with termite with the waxing and waning moon. Heard it all my life from the folks.


Furby. Be careful where ya step in the cow pasture. Not only could you be stepping into something deep, but it could be smelly and stick to yer boots. ;)

:D :D

[ARKANSAWYER]

  If'n you follow the moon you will know when to cut brush, kill hogs and plant crops.  It also applys to deer hunting and fishing.  Waxing moon means it is getting brighter or fuller to it is full.  Then it starts waining till it is gone.  You also need to know when it is over head and under foot.
  I am going deer hunting in the morning and I will get some photos of left and right trees and make a new post.
ARKANSAWYER

[EZ]

Hope your luck is a little better than mine with the deer hunting. Mist a 10 point yesterday, arrow hit a limb. :( : Thought I had all them limbs clear away, gonna have to get some new glasses I guess or something. ;D
EZ

[TN_man]

Yes, good luck with the deer hunting. My last two times out I have been arriving at my stand about the same time the deer have. No shots to talk about yet. I am looking forward to the pics and may be one will be of a buck! 8)

[MULE_MAN]

ARKY


Now let me get this straight , Your trying to tell me if I cut a Left Hand Twist log on
on waxing Moon ,It may be OK  .  ???

I don't know what you people down South are drinking, But could you send me
some. It might be a bad winter . :D :D :D :D ;D

Well I'm just kidding, But I don't see the logic in it   :