353 Detroit in a barko 160

TheDirt · December 08, 2015, 05:13:51 PM

Too wet to work the log job this week. Two days off and I've already spent a ton of money as is usually the case when Im not working.
I bought 2 barko 160's one is an 99 160A with a 6bt cummins and the other I have to assume is late 70's with a 353.
My question is: the 353 will run but blows an insane amount of smoke (and oil) out the exhaust. I mean a ton.
Couple guys have said it could be the blower seals, but it seems just as likely that a ring or piston is shot. Anyone deal with this? Is there a way to tell if the oil is getting pulled through the blower and into the intake vs. past a piston or ring?

coxy · December 08, 2015, 05:36:19 PM

sounds like the blower does it have a turbo if it does may be that

TheDirt · December 08, 2015, 05:38:59 PM

No turbo

bushmechanic · December 08, 2015, 06:02:27 PM

Take the cover off the blower and if the rotors are coated in oil then likely the seals are shot or the shafts are excessively worn.

cuznguido · December 08, 2015, 06:07:06 PM

Could also be an injector with the tip broken/burned off. If it is running rough would especially indicate injector. One way to check the blower seals is to remove the air intake from atop the blower and start the engine up after dark. Shine a flashlight down in the blower and you will see the oil flying around if it is very bad.

TheDirt · December 08, 2015, 06:11:16 PM

I will try that, I have to assume it's not an injector, it's not running terribly rough and that wouldn't explain the oil puking out the exhaust

350 cummins · December 08, 2015, 06:53:46 PM

i would think it is the blower seals, have seen it happen when the emergency shut off is pulled when engine is at high rpm and after resetting the shut off the blower pulls oil past the damaged seals, good luck with it

CP1991 · December 08, 2015, 09:04:20 PM

Hi y'all I'm new here I'm having similar problems with a 353 Detroit but runs fine a lot of oil out of tailpipe always thought it was injector. 350 Cummins I c u have a 662 Clark I thought I had the only one made. If u don't mind me asking is 1st gear in the middle of selection like mine is.

350 cummins · December 08, 2015, 09:28:01 PM

no mine shifts 1-2-3, there are quite a few of them here in central/northern saskatchewan

CP1991 · December 08, 2015, 09:49:25 PM

Thanks I always thought it should b 1-2-3. Mine takes off in second better than 1st probably tranny bout to go. If you don't mind me asking how much will a wore out 662 bring up their.

Gearbox · December 09, 2015, 08:00:21 PM

Check to see if the air box and blower drains are open . Gearbox

Ed_K · December 09, 2015, 08:24:19 PM

My 4-53 smoked real bad but ran ok was hard to start, found that 2 rods were bent when I bought it.

TheDirt · March 31, 2016, 08:44:49 AM

Finally had some time to drag that loader to where I could work on it and pull the blower off.
The blower Impellers are not suprisingly coated in oil as is everything I can see in the air box. I've not worked on a Detroit much before, once you look inside its amazing how simple it is, actually it's amazing to me that these things run at all. The loader had sat untouched all winter and before moving it I had to put the feet up and turn the tower around. It was about 35-40f and it popped off without a jump or ether, and idled perfectly, couldn't belive it. It was blowing a ton of oil out the exhaust but it ran perfectly and had good power. I'm pretty sure it has to be the blower seals now, it seems like it would run way rougher if a ring was gone enough for oil to be coming up through, but I could be wrong. I Can't visually tell if the oil seals are gone so I think I'm just going to get a rebuild or track down another blower to try.

millcreek40 · March 31, 2016, 04:54:59 PM

I wanted to go look at that loader. Just couldn't get there. Did you get the grapple with it?? He told me that he could get one for $2500

treeslayer2003 · March 31, 2016, 07:35:51 PM

depends on what alot of oil/smoke is to you. they can have the top rings wore pretty bad and still run very well. if its not missing or banging, run her.

Gearbox · March 31, 2016, 07:47:11 PM

You may find that when you get it warmed up the smoke and oil will stop . run it and check the oil useage .

TheDirt · April 01, 2016, 08:12:05 AM

Not missing or banging. but just looking into the airbox and at the impellers on the blower there is definitely a substantial source of oil. Upper rings wouldn't be a factor here.
It seems like one or more of three possibilities:
Airbox drain was plugged (it wasn't really dripping considering how much oil was in the airbox)
Blower seals are shot
Lower rings, (below airbox) are shot and letting oil up.
One thing I noticed was that there was oil part way up the air intake that bolts on the blower, it seems like it would be hard for oil to reach that point if it's source was coming from the Block side of the blower (given that it's creating positive pressure in that direction, and negative pressure on the intake side)
If the issue was just smoke I might be more apt to just run it, but it's blowing a mist of oil out the exhaust. I also have a little time to work on it during sugaring, I pulled it down to my sap house so I can work on it and keep an eye on the vacuum pump.
Millcreek, I'm actually the guy who had it for sale, I ended up pulling the ad and decided to fix it (if time allows) and either keep it or put it back up on CL

tantoy · April 01, 2016, 10:22:25 AM

My 353 is drooling out the exhaust and running down the manifold and engine (wet stacking?). I did not rebuild the injectors when I went thru the engine. Is this what your engine is doing? I don't have excessive smoke though.

TheDirt · April 01, 2016, 11:45:46 AM

Tantoy, yes. That is exactly what it looks like. Is much oil leaking through the airbox vent? (The little pipe coming off the block behind your starter)

teakwood · April 01, 2016, 12:15:39 PM

what a mess! I would hate to have a rebuilt, new painted engine looking like that. Is that leak hard to fix?

Corley5 · April 01, 2016, 12:32:57 PM

The 353 in my new old Franklin 132 forwarder was wet stacking bad when I got it. It was all blowing out the stack and spraying out into the snow or running down the cab corner. The previous owner had just had the blower resealed hoping to fix it and it was still doing it. I took a chance after reading that all it really might need is a good running. He'd been lightly using it around his personal firewood yard and woodlot and it hadn't been to the woods for real use in three years or so. It's pretty well cleared up now as long as it's being run like a Detroit is meant to run. It does use some oil. Now that the weather is warming up I'm going to put straight 40 Rotella in it like it's supposed to have. That'll help too

I'd have changed it already but it had just had fresh 15-40 and filters when I got it.
Maybe a good running and some new oil will help yours ??? :-\

bushmechanic · April 01, 2016, 06:16:05 PM

If the blower seals are leaking it can be seen with a light shone into the blower with it running. Also another culprit is the air filter plugged up, then the blower draws air that much that it sucks oil in from around the blower seals. I have seen this happen from machines used in mill yards feeding log decks, sawdust plugs the air filter then the blower sucks wicked and the engine is usually black with excessive oil running down over it and it really don't get up to temperature like it should. Tantoy did you do the blower seals when you rebuilt the engine? Also when you rebuilt the engine did you have the proper ring compressor?

dgdrls · April 02, 2016, 08:07:08 AM

Quote from: Corley5 on April 01, 2016, 12:32:57 PM
The 353 in my new old Franklin 132 forwarder was wet stacking bad when I got it. It was all blowing out the stack and spraying out into the snow or running down the cab corner. The previous owner had just had the blower resealed hoping to fix it and it was still doing it. I took a chance after reading that all it really might need is a good running. He'd been lightly using it around his personal firewood yard and woodlot and it hadn't been to the woods for real use in three years or so. It's pretty well cleared up now as long as it's being run like a Detroit is meant to run. It does use some oil. Now that the weather is warming up I'm going to put straight 40 Rotella in it like it's supposed to have. That'll help too I'd have changed it already but it had just had fresh 15-40 and filters when I got it.
Maybe a good running and some new oil will help yours ??? :-\

this page http://www.tejascoach.com/ddcoil.html references the Detroit Diesel oil spec Detroit Diesel® 2-Cycle Engines
DDC publication 6SA314 8901

also https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,77128.msg1170707.html#msg1170707

Good luck with it,

Dan

Corley5 · April 02, 2016, 09:01:33 AM

My local Car Quest stocks Rotella T1 straight 40w. Rotella 30, 40 and 50 all meet specs for two stroke Detroits. http://rotella.shell.com/products/t1.html I put a block heater on it last winter and was going to change the oil at that time but if we put 50 hours on it since then that's a lot. Now that the weather is warming up, its 25 right now :

:(, I need to get the oil switched out for sure

tantoy · April 02, 2016, 10:14:07 AM

Quote from: TheDirt on April 01, 2016, 11:45:46 AM
Tantoy, yes. That is exactly what it looks like. Is much oil leaking through the airbox vent? (The little pipe coming off the block behind your starter)

no hardly any out of the tube. The tube is open cause I can feel air blowing out of it.

tantoy · April 02, 2016, 10:18:39 AM

Quote from: bushmechanic on April 01, 2016, 06:16:05 PM
If the blower seals are leaking it can be seen with a light shone into the blower with it running. Also another culprit is the air filter plugged up, then the blower draws air that much that it sucks oil in from around the blower seals. I have seen this happen from machines used in mill yards feeding log decks, sawdust plugs the air filter then the blower sucks wicked and the engine is usually black with excessive oil running down over it and it really don't get up to temperature like it should. Tantoy did you do the blower seals when you rebuilt the engine? Also when you rebuilt the engine did you have the proper ring compressor?

Bush, I did put new blower seals and the included speedy sleeves on the blower rotor shafts. Also has a new air filter. Yes the ring installer was the detroit tapered sleeve type. New 180 degree thermostat and engine comes up to 180 in about 5 minutes and stays there when operating.
Are you not thinking injectors?

Corley5 · April 02, 2016, 01:42:30 PM

Tantoy, is it running good otherwise?

bushmechanic · April 02, 2016, 08:31:45 PM

No tantoy I don't think the injectors are the problem. If you pull the cover on the blower and look at the rotors you shouldn't see any oil on them, if you do then there is a seal broken. Why I say this is because those seals are really hard to install without breaking them. I have developed my own method of installing them, I use hot water to soften them and gently install a collar into the seal so it don't break, then pull the collar out just before installing the rotor. It would be unlikely for the injectors to all be gone, you pull the exhaust manifold and see if there is one port wet... if all are wet I would suspect blower issues.

tantoy · April 03, 2016, 11:15:57 AM

Quote from: Corley5 on April 02, 2016, 01:42:30 PM
Tantoy, is it running good otherwise?

Runs , starts good no excess smoke.

tantoy · April 03, 2016, 11:17:00 AM

Quote from: bushmechanic on April 02, 2016, 08:31:45 PM
No tantoy I don't think the injectors are the problem. If you pull the cover on the blower and look at the rotors you shouldn't see any oil on them, if you do then there is a seal broken. Why I say this is because those seals are really hard to install without breaking them. I have developed my own method of installing them, I use hot water to soften them and gently install a collar into the seal so it don't break, then pull the collar out just before installing the rotor. It would be unlikely for the injectors to all be gone, you pull the exhaust manifold and see if there is one port wet... if all are wet I would suspect blower issues.

Thanks bush , that's any easy place to start, I will check it out.

John Woodworth · April 06, 2016, 07:03:01 AM

Have you checked the air box drain that it's not plugged? It's a fitting with a piece of tubing behind the starter. If it's plugged you would be sucking oil from the air box.

crazy4saws · October 18, 2016, 09:37:42 PM

Hey tantoy, how did you make out on your 3-53? Was it the seals in the blower? Ju lst curious.

tantoy · October 21, 2016, 09:59:17 AM

Quote from: crazy4saws on October 18, 2016, 09:37:42 PM
Hey tantoy, how did you make out on your 3-53? Was it the seals in the blower? Ju lst curious.

OK, I haven't done anything yet but its driving me nuts looking at it. I will try to take the blower cover off like bushmechanic suggested over the weekend. Hoping its just injectors.