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Saw blade set question...

Started by Kbeitz, November 29, 2015, 04:34:22 PM

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Kbeitz

Today I was cutting a large oak tree and broke a blade. It was all my fault. I was pushing the
saw to see how fast I could cut. So I put another junkyard blade on my saw (laughter) and
it was really dull and had almost no set. I was always setting my blades at .012.
Most of the reading I did on this forum everyone seems to be setting there blades at .023.
So this time I was going to do just that. But when I started it just looked like that was to much.
So I went at .020, Boy was I disappointed. I could not run my saw near as fast or it would just bog
down and my boards really looked bad. Lots of stripes. So.... What goes?



 



 



Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Magicman

At least one over set tooth.  Probably several.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Kbeitz

Never had a problem when setting at .012
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Magicman

I was not implying that you over set the teeth, but that it/they were already there.

Another possibility is that the blade is twisted and causing a wobble as it goes around.  Whatever, there are several teeth lower than the rest that are digging in.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

YellowHammer

Quote from: Magicman on November 29, 2015, 05:11:15 PM
At least one over set tooth.  Probably several.
Yup.  Uneven teeth. 


YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Kbeitz

Quote from: Magicman on November 29, 2015, 05:55:06 PM
I was not implying that you over set the teeth, but that it/they were already there.

Another possibility is that the blade is twisted and causing a wobble as it goes around.  Whatever, there are several teeth lower than the rest that are digging in.

Gotta say thanks.
I'm open to any suggestions.
This blade had so little set left in it that it took me awhile to find any set at all. I needed to know which tooth
pointed what way. I think I'm going to try to remove some of the set. I don't know how well that will work.
I guess one of my questions is what is a good set number. Is it .023 ?  Does different blades take different set ?
Some how I will make this work. I don't like to loose and it just a learning curve.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Chuck White

~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

pineywoods

K, most likely what you have there is a blade that has suffered an encounter with some trash metal. When I get one like that, I take the blade to an anvil and hammer ALL the teeth flat, then do a fresh set to 27 thou. That way, you can be sure you don't  have a raker tooth sticking out sideways
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

dgdrls

As others have indicated you have some over-set/bent teeth.
Oak is pretty hard and what I found when I had my WM was
harder wood takes a little less set than softer species.

Is there a perfect set for both,  there may be but I don't think I ever found it.
I would also check the band to be certain its dead flat and not crowned.

Dan

Kbeitz

If it was crowned it would be covexed. I had to flip the blade inside out to get the teeth pointing the right way...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Banjo picker

If you are running a small engine on the mill...the relatively small amount of set is helping with your feed rate, as long as you have at least some set.  When you raised the set to .020 you created a whole lot more work for your engine.  That's whats going on with your feed rate.  But as others have said the set is not the same over the whole blade.  Piney gave you a good suggestion...start from scratch.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

gww

If I remember, your blades didn't have a raker tooth but were left then right.  If you go to the trouble to experment by flattening all and starting over, you might try leaving a raker between your sets.  I am using a piney type setter in a vice and have noticed a few things.  Once I broke a tooth and cut with the blade anyway and it was very jerky and left big grooves.  Another time I got off and set my raker blade which basically gave me two teeth to one facing in the same direction.  It also cut rough like you show.  I used both blades anyway cause for building the things I built, I mostly get most disgusted with wavy board and want to get the most out of my blades. 

One other thing I have noticed only on this last box of blades is that at the weld there will be an odd number of teeth set one way or the other.  If I don't pay attention I can start out on and end up off on the way the blades are already set.  I try to make my bend closer to the gullet vally then high by the hardened part of the blade.  So far I have only had one tooth break off but all the bending back and forth to fix mistakes has to take its toll.

I don't know if the above is helpful or just talk cause I am learning with you and have only set about six blades so far.
Good luck
gww

Magicman

Quote from: gww on November 29, 2015, 09:55:16 PM
If I remember, your blades didn't have a raker tooth but were left then right.
He broke that one, and did not say whether this "new" one had rakers.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

gww

Magic
QuoteHe broke that one, and did not say whether this "new" one had rakers.
I had (maby wrongly) assumed that all 70 blades that he bought at the junkyard were the same.  Either way, I find this thread interesting and have had cuts like he has pictures of with some of my blades.  I am glade he started this thread and thankfull to those who have answered.
Cheers
gww

drobertson

It had to be a fluke, all your other blades and your sharpening has worked this far, I say keep on going, like you've been doing, things happen,, and then again, you could have them done right, and not question..
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Kbeitz

It seem that only one blade in my batch so far had no rakers. But I really did not look at all the blades.
Maybe thats part of my problem. Maybe my saw saws better with none.
Tommorow I will again look at my set. Like GWW problem my blade is also very jerky and grabby.
Next time I will drop back to .012 set.

Thanks again for everyones help. This is a great forum.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Remle

"problem my blade is also very jerky and grabby"  this statement causes me to ask a question? Do you have a difference in the over all height of your teeth? Simply sharpening the front of the teeth by hand may be causing some teeth to be shorter than others, that will affect the cutting characteristic of the blade.
When sharpening blades it is important that the height of each tooth be the same to obtain a uniform set, profile and material removal. I just don't see that being the case when bands are sharpened free hand.




beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Kbeitz

Well today I removed the set... Not the way I wanted to but it got done.
I sawed into the log dogs twice. That can really remove the set.
It also makes the blade really dull. I made my mill so that you could not saw into
the dogs. But I made a modification to the dogs and forgot to adjust the
stop bar that stops the head if the dogs are up to far.
so.... after I sharpened and reset the teeth twice it's now working fine.
I went to .015 and I think thats where I'm going to stay.
I felt so stupid when I hit the dog the second time that I shut the mill down
and modified the stop bar. My blades teeth arnt so tall after today but it's working good.
Thanks for all the info everyone . Some day I will buy a new blade to see what I'm missing.
All my junkyard blade teach me what not to do with out breaking the bank.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Kbeitz

Oh... Yea.... Hitting the log dogs also helps to keep all the teeth the same height.
Any high ones gets knocked right down... Don't believe me just try it...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

beenthere

Quoteafter I sharpened and reset the teeth twice it's not working fine.

"Not" or is now working fine?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Kbeitz

Quote from: beenthere on November 30, 2015, 05:38:33 PM
Quoteafter I sharpened and reset the teeth twice it's not working fine.

"Not" or is now working fine?

Thanks.... I went back and fixed that... Thanks again for pointing that out.
I never was good at spelling or typing.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

gww

K
As far as learning on your junkyard blade before trying new ones.  I wish I had 70 or so of them to practice with.  I went through my first 10 new blades pretty quickly.
gww

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: Kbeitz on November 30, 2015, 05:18:43 PM
Some day I will buy a new blade to see what I'm missing.
All my junkyard blade teach me what not to do with out breaking the bank.

You'll be amazed at how smooth the boards coming off the mill are with new bands. You should try a few. You could always reserve them for those special logs.  ;)

Judging from the photos, that band had a pretty hard metal strike at some point.

I use a Pineywoods type setter, and set to about 23-24 thou running 1 1/4" .045's. Running a WM with 24HP. Bands that have not had metal strikes will mill ALMOST as smooth as new ones.

Kbeitz

Would not setting teeth at 23-24 thou put the cutting tooth out all the way out into the cut ?
Or is this what is needed ? Seems like you would only need enough set to make room for the blade.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

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