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Log size question

Started by starmac, November 25, 2015, 03:23:08 PM

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starmac

Looking at cutting some 3 sided logs, or d logs, if you prefer.
These would be for walls for a house or cabin.
I assume I can just go by the cant calculator to get the log sizes I need, or am I missing something.
In other words I would need 11.3 in minimum tops to make a 8 in 3 sided log.
8.5 in for 6 in logs.
I am assuming this would be with no wane.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

tmarch

Most people would want the top and bottom of each log to be flat so they can stack them easier so you will want to figure that into the diameter you will need.  With perfectly straight logs the 11.3 figure would only allow 3.3 inches of flat for both top and bottom, take the saw kerf out and you'd be looking at .6 for each which isn't enough in my opinion.  Maybe I'm wrong but I would shoot for and extra 2 inches at least.
Retired to the ranch, saw, and sell solar pumps.

starmac

I guess I am missing something.(not that unusual)
According to the log size calculator, to make a 8X8 cant, it takes a 11.3 in top on a, I assume perfectly straight log, where all four sides would be flat.
I have never tried making the 3 sided logs, but wouldn't you basically just make a can't, except leaving the best side natural?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

dgdrls




 


 

perfect log no kerf. 
yes that would work

I would go a little larger on the logs

Dan


starmac

I see what you are getting at,  Looking at that, I suppose the log size/cant calculator is figuring on at least some wane on the  cants.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Banjo picker

I have found the log calculator to work pretty good. Just remember that it doesn't allow for the sawyer to make an error on his entry cut either.  If you are shooting for no wane get some slightly bigger logs than the minimum. Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

Nomad

Quote from: starmac on November 25, 2015, 04:29:23 PM
I guess I am missing something.(not that unusual)
According to the log size calculator, to make a 8X8 cant, it takes a 11.3 in top on a, I assume perfectly straight log, where all four sides would be flat.
I have never tried making the 3 sided logs, but wouldn't you basically just make a cant, except leaving the best side natural?
In a nutshell, yes.  I agree with Banjo too.  Look for a bit extra for that "fudge factor."  On many logs you might need Tmarch's 2" or more.  Perfect logs are few and far between. 
   
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
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woodmills1

I do this all the time.  For a perfect log (does not exist) take the cant size, 4x4 6x6 etc and multiply that size by 1.414.  So, for a 10x10 the absolute minimum is 14.14 inches.  Better get one a bit larger.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

dean herring

My son and I are going the same thing. Are you going to use green pine.If so how are you going to dry it. We are planning to cut them ,let them dry and see if they stay straight.
We are going to try either dovetail or half dovetail,which ever we master. Are you going to stack them flat to flat or tongue and groove.
Failure is not an option  3D Lumber

starmac

The first ones are not for my personal use, if I decide to saw them.  The guy wants to use what he calls poplar, others call it aspen. I am not 100% sure what it is we actually have, as it is not what we had for aspen in NM, Az and Co. He also wansts some out of spruce.
These will just be stacked flat.
There is an out fit not far from here that makes them tongue and groove, what I understand from some of the builders, is that you need to put the walls up pretty quick, or you will wind up cutting the grooves off. lol
I wanting to build a house for us, but I am leaning towards 8 in square logs instead of 3 sided.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

dean herring

Thanks for your reply. We are going to make a trial run tomorrow. Let us know how you are progressing and we will do the same.thanks again.
Failure is not an option  3D Lumber

rjwoelk

For our cabin we made 8x10,  dovetailed with northerndovetailer jig, I had mostly 14 inch tops and bigger, which worked very well. We did use a couple of 12 to 13 inch but ended up with a little wany, but that just put character in the log. The big thing would be on a dovetail is not to have wane in the inside of the joint, need more chinking to fill it.
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

Dave989

Have fun cutting the D logs. The first cut is important. Level the heart of the log on you mill. Use a measuringt tape to find the mid point of the log. If you are cutting 8 inch D logs add 4 inches plus kerf to make your first cut. Flip log 180 degrees make second cut. You will now have your top and bottom cut. Flip log so the D side is face down and make your third cut. Pay attention to how you set up the log. You want the bevel of the D face to run consistently down the center, for consistent easy to match up logs.
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Dave and Hannah

beenthere

Question when cutting and laying up the "D" cut logs... do you strive to get the top and bottom faces nearly the same width, so the wall is flat on the inside and the curved faces line up pretty much on the outside??  This would accommodate different diameter logs and seemingly simplify the sawing. Might not be so great with internal growth stresses, but sawing the "inside" face last may help overcome them.
south central Wisconsin
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starmac

Dean, it will be later in the spring before I will cut any at all. So looking forward to see how your's works out for you.
One question of yours that I didn't answer is, here many houses are built out of green logs, they just accomade the shrinking with they way the house is trimmed out. There are a few built out of dead standing timber.

Dave, thanks for the instructions. I had planned to get with the original owner of my mill, as he made a living cutting 3 sided logs with it.

Beenthere. We are very lucky with our white spruce, as most of it has very little stress, at least that has been my experience so far.
Also lucky that straight logs are plentiful.
I am also lucky in the fact that I haul logs all winter and can buy any load I want to, so can kind of pick and choose, to a point. I just have to come up with a way to unload them safely.
My friend wants to make a bunch of 3 sided 6 in logs out of aspen/popular. I havent cut any, so that may be a whole different animal.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

valley ranch

Well, I'm gona have to read this thread again, with a large brandy, to see if I can get just a little more out of it.

Dave989

Beenthere, yes you want to keep the top and bottom roughly the same size. I have cut approximately 40,000 board feet of 10 inch D logs. I aimed to have 8-9 inches on the stacking surface, (top and bottom) and to have 12 to 13 inches of thickness from the D surface to the inside of the wall. If you are cutting 8 inch D logs I would aim for 7 inches on the stacking surface and around 10 inches front to back. Hope this helps. Keep in mind the size of log will influence your stacking side dimension and overall thickness as a larger log will have a flatter curve to the D surface. I found that a large log was not my friend and best cut up into timbers or lumber.
Check out our Facebook page Timber Beast Sawmilling.
Dave and Hannah

starmac

Dave, when you are setting up for the last cut, with the curved, or natural side on the bunks, where would you measure from for your cut?
In other words, say for an 8 in log, would you judt make your cut 10 inches and stack with the inside flat, or am I missing something?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Dave989

Yes, in general cut at 10 inches. Sometimes you may need to cut higher or lower to keep your stacking side around 7 inches. What I mean by this is a smaller log just big enough to get your D log out of it will have more curve to the D face. You may have to cut higher then 10 inches maybe 10.5 or 11. For a larger log you will have a flatter D face then you may want to cut slightly less the 10 inches. You want to keep the inside wall flat. And you want to keep the stacking sides fairly close to the same dimension. The rest of the D face does not matter if it is all the same. Think of it this way. The inside of the wall can be your finnished wall for the house, only needing some staining. On the outside when you are stacking your logs if you stack a log with 6 inches on the stacking side on top of a log 8 inches on the stacking side this will cause an area that water can sit and rot your log. So try to average everything out.
Check out our Facebook page Timber Beast Sawmilling.
Dave and Hannah

starmac

Thinks, that is pretty much how I had it worked in my mind, but it isn't always reliable. lol
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Dave989

No problem. Happy milling.
Check out our Facebook page Timber Beast Sawmilling.
Dave and Hannah

drobertson

I've done a few of these,  what dimension are you shooting for in the wall thickness and rise?  And whatever size you decide on, there are many ways to go about it.  The logs I had were big enough to yield two D-logs most of the time, so I ended up with some very usable outside lumber as well.  Whatever you size you decide on, if possible,  you may want to make the opposite side of the bark heavy leaving a dog board, but this will ensure a parallel face to the bark when you make the sizing cut, keeping the bark side on the bed rails.  I found out to speed up the process to take heavy wedge cuts off moving these off to the side while making the rise dimension, then splitting heavy, moving this one off, then paralleling to the bark to the desired size, then the other, then the wedges, which yielded a few 2x4's and 2x6"s . After a few logs you will figure out how you want to approach it for what you want to yield. It's kinda hard to describe in a short post.  Hope this helps, pm if you'd like, I will add, its not that bad, just a feel thing you will get after a few under the belt.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

dean herring

If I am planning on 6x8 logs is it best to use trees that are just big enough to get one log out of. This would mean that  they would all have the heart of the tree in every log. Is this a bad thing?
How close to the bark can you go and still have good wood? I have a lot of questions and I thank everyone for their i put.
Starmac  I will let you know how the first log turns out tomorrow.
Failure is not an option  3D Lumber

Banjo picker

Here is a small cabin that I sawed the logs for .... not D logs, but you can see from the end grain that the customer got all the "logs" he could get out of each log.   

  

  It turned out pretty nice.  He did a good job.
Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

dean herring

For some reason I didn't get the pics , just the post
Failure is not an option  3D Lumber

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