im in way over my head! new cabin build.

[paddler]

hey folks, im brand new here.

my wife and I (and our 4 yr old daughter) currently live in a house that is slumping its way into a river. So, we are forced with the need to build a new place to live. Unfortunately, all of our usable land is on the other side of a river that runs through our property. So, we are going to be building a place that will be off the grid and very remote. Fortunately, that's fine with us.

So, a buddy and I recently split the purchase of a newer but used Baker 3638D Sawmill. I am planning on using this sawmill to mill the what I need to build a stacked, flat sawn log cabin. I got a good deal on a large stack of white spruce logs from a local logger, and, now that all the mud is frozen, I am planning on hauling the mill to the landing to start sawing.  but, I am in desperate need of learning before I start cutting.

I apologize for the newbie questions. I am trying to figure out my cutting list. What size of rafters and floor joists do I need? how can I calculate that based on my cabin dimensions? What are good woods to use for flooring, both first and second floor? I have access to paper birch, maple, quaking aspen, black ash, spruce, white and red pine and balsam.  I am planning on using the spruce for my walls, but is that a suitable wood for the structural pieces like rafters and joists? I would like to use spruce because it is currently being logged in big quantities very near to me.

thanks for any help, I sure appreciate it!

[beenthere]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. You will like it here, and get some great information.

For starters, and to help with answers, click your forum name, and it will take you to where you can add your location (at least general) to your profile. As you see in other posts, helps interpret the member's post.

Tell us a bit more about your cabin design...

And no apology needed for any question... new or otherwise.  ;D

[starmac]

I will be watching this thread myself, as white spruce is our primaty wood here.
I do know of quite a few places built entirely out of spruce, including the floors.
Like to gear more of your plans, such as 3 sided logs or aquare.

[paddler]

hey thanks for the replies! I am planning on cutting my logs square unless someone can explain to me how 3-sided "D" logs are beneficial.

I am currently debating my footprint dimensions. I am leaning towards 20X24 or 16X24. I would like a second story with 4ft. knee walls. No loft. I have a loft in my current house and I hate the way it holds heat and wastes space. please offer any insight on the pros and cons of different footprints. 

I was planning on starting to mill in the spring but the logger told me yesterday that I either need to haul the wood away or cut it before winter sets in too hard. I guess that was the landowners request. So, I am going to make a run at milling it up yet this year but now im scrambling to come up with a cutting list. I don't have to have the entire plan finished because its not the entirety of the wood I will need so ill be cutting again in the future. basically, I just need to cut it into dimensions that I will use for this project. all the logs are 8,12, or 16 ft legnths.

Thanks for the help!

[starmac]

Do you have the equipment to move it if you cut it into cants? I am new to this game myself, but am thinking that would be the quickest way to deal with it, if for no other reason to get the bark off of it.

[starmac]

What size square logs are you planning to use. 
In this area 3 sided logs are more popular, but I do not see a benefit other than looks. Personally I like the looks of a square log house as well to better, and am leaning that way myself.
The size you are talking, I can't imagine a problem using spruce for the needed dimensional lumber you will need.
Around here, and we sometimes have some severely cold weather, many of the houses use 8 in 3 sided logs, but there are quite a few the size you are planning that use 6 in, without any trouble keeping them warm.
Another question, do you have any restrictions in your area on the use of rough sawn structural lumber, sometimes that plays into what size you must use.

[paddler]

i might cut the logs into cants and then haul them to where I can store them to cut in the spring. that's a good idea. but, it would still be nice to have an idea of what my rafters and joists dimensions will be so I can size the cants for max efficiency.

I am planning on using 8" squared logs. a hermit up the road from me used 6" and his place is always more than warm. but, my wife's one request is that the new place be warm and heat well. she doesn't care about running water or electricity so I cant complain if all she wants is to stay warm! so, that's why im planning on using 8" instead of 6".

no construction codes that will limit me from using my own rough cut. I looked into that.

[Dave Shepard]

Welcome to the Forum!

[starmac]

This is really not any help, but I have seen it mentioned before that somewhere on this forum is a calculater, that will give you the size needed when you put in your spans.
IIRC it even differienciates between wood species.
Some one will be along that can direct you to it.

[starmac]

Looks like I was wrong, I found the calculators by clicking on extras at the top of the page, but found nothing for standard joists and rafters, only beams.

I know what I would personally use, but it is not from any engineers standpoint. I tend to over build.

[sandsawmill14]

welcome paddler  jim or some of the others should be along that can answer your questions.when i saw pine for my on use but dont have a specific use for it i will saw the cants 12 3/4 by 12 3/4 that way i can resaw and get 2x4,2x6,2x8,2x10, or 2x12 with very little waste. you can also saw 4x4,6x6, or 8x8 with very little waste.just be sure to leave 3x4 " or so for kerf and drying

[Jim_Rogers]

how can I calculate that based on my cabin dimensions?

One thing you need to nail down is the cabin size. Make up your mind and start with that. Then run the floor joist the short dimension.
In order to figure the size you're going to need to know what type of wood you're going to use. You have listed many available. Pick one of the strongest ones and use that to begin with.
Next figure at least 60 lbs floor load per sqft for the first floor and 40 lbs per sqft for the second floor unless it's low sleeping loft, then use 20 lbs.

In this story:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,50714.0.html

I look at his design and figure the way an engineer would figure it. Read that story as a basis for figuring it out.

Good luck with your project and keep asking questions.

Jim Rogers

[CJennings]

My preference given the species list would be the spruce or red pine for structural items (rafters, joists, etc.). I'd use the white pine for finish work (flooring, etc.). The balsam fir will need more drying time and balsam fir tends to have more defect (rotten, hollow stem, for example) but it could be cut into dimensional lumber too. The stud mills I saw in Maine cut both spruce and fir into 2x4's and such, but spruce is always preferred over fir.

[paddler]

wow! I just learned a whole lot! thanks fellas I appreciate the access to information.

so, I used DonP beam calculator and figured out some dimensions for floor joists. i assumed 60lbs/sq.ft for a 20ft wide building.  with joists 16" oc, each one will need to support 1600 lbs. For spruce, I would need a section modulus of 53.3 inches for floor joists. a white spruce 4X10 passes.

but, if I supported the floor joists mid-span underneath the house, would this change my span from (for example) 20 ft down to 10 ft.? would this cut the span in half and allow a smaller timber? also, for my floor joists supporting the second story, if I supported them with an interior post or wall would that reduce my span when I use the magic DonP calculator?

I used Jim's suggestion of 60lbs/sq. ft to determine the load carried by my floor joists. Does this number reflect the total load? both the live and dead load together?

im still confused about how to determine rafter sizing. Is the span of the beam the length of the rafter from ridgepole to the toplate of the wall or is the span the horizontal span that it covers?

[Jim_Rogers]

but, if I supported the floor joists mid-span underneath the house, would this change my span from (for example) 20 ft down to 10 ft.?

Yes

would this cut the span in half and allow a smaller timber?

Yes

also, for my floor joists supporting the second story, if I supported them with an interior post or wall would that reduce my span when I use the magic DonP calculator?

Yes

Does this number reflect the total load? both the live and dead load together?

Live load only add at least 10 lbs or so for dead loads.

I'm still confused about how to determine rafter sizing. Is the span of the beam the length of the rafter from ridgepole to the top plate of the wall or is the span the horizontal span that it covers?

horizontal run of the rafter for live load, rafter length for dead load; add the two together to get the combined load.

Jim Rogers

[paddler]

Jim, on the link that you posted, you use 10 lbs/sqft as the dead load on a roof unless the roof is something unusual. I am trying to determine what the live load of my roof should be. what is a good estimate for snow load in an extreme northern climate along the shore of lake superior?

[beenthere]

paddler
https://www.dli.mn.gov/CCLD/PDF/bc_map_snowload.pdf

You may even be able to pull some additional information out of the site. Don't know...

[edkemper]

Do you have building codes where you plan on building? If so, that is where you need to get what is required.

I will be building my log home soon. Will be using raw logs (Butt & Pass) that have been debarked and stacked. No lumber for the walls. Just uncut logs with chinking.

Good luck and have fun.