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How to bring awareness to sawmill/lumber option?

Started by SawyerBrown, November 19, 2015, 11:23:28 AM

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SawyerBrown

In an interview with a researcher earlier this week, the question was asked. "What is the biggest challenge you face in your day-to-day business?"  Some things came to mind, like making sure the customer site and logs are really ready for the sawmill, helping them understand the charges/fees, scheduling, and the like.  I considered the ability to find my business, but I'm convinced that if someone is looking for a sawmill service, they're probably going to start with an internet search, and I pop up pretty close to the top of the list ... so finding me is not a big issue.  But as I thought more about it, with my main objective of re-purposing urban hardwood trees, I came to the conclusion that there isn't enough awareness by homeowners/land owners that there is even an option to have nice logs sawed into lumber, either for their own use, or to sell, in many cases to help cover the costs of taking the tree down.  They simply pay for the tree service to take down ... and remove ... the entire tree(s).  I've tried to get the tree service guys to give me a call when they find something worth sawing, and that is starting to work, but I don't really want to be in the lumber business either.  With all the ash trees coming down due to EAB, there's more than enough opportunity to put that wood to better use (most cities are simply grinding them into chips ...).

Any ideas on how to raise public awareness of the option to hire a portable sawmill to make lumber?

Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

BradMarks

First thought is create a simple domain/website that redirects to your "Saw it There, LLC".  Something catchy like your existing site.  Then expand on the opportunities on your existing site. Jeff can help you on that. Just an idea.

4x4American

I think that is a great idea you had about having the tree service let the customer know about you, but, they get paid to haul the logs/brush off, they might not want to lose more potential money by recommending a sawyer.  Just a thought, could be dead wrong.  I have been wanting to do some sort of a radio ad or something.
Boy, back in my day..

kelLOGg

What about a top-down approach such as contacting the city council or county commissioners and ask for the arborist to contact you when a marketable tree is to be removed. It would save the city hauling costs and we sawyers would have a source of logs.
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: SawyerBrown on November 19, 2015, 11:23:28 AM
In an interview with a researcher earlier this week, the question was asked. "What is the biggest challenge you face in your day-to-day business?"  Some things came to mind, like making sure the customer site and logs are really ready for the sawmill, helping them understand the charges/fees, scheduling, and the like.  I considered the ability to find my business, but I'm convinced that if someone is looking for a sawmill service, they're probably going to start with an internet search, and I pop up pretty close to the top of the list ... so finding me is not a big issue.  But as I thought more about it, with my main objective of re-purposing urban hardwood trees, I came to the conclusion that there isn't enough awareness by homeowners/land owners that there is even an option to have nice logs sawed into lumber, either for their own use, or to sell, in many cases to help cover the costs of taking the tree down.  They simply pay for the tree service to take down ... and remove ... the entire tree(s).  I've tried to get the tree service guys to give me a call when they find something worth sawing, and that is starting to work, but I don't really want to be in the lumber business either.  With all the ash trees coming down due to EAB, there's more than enough opportunity to put that wood to better use (most cities are simply grinding them into chips ...).

Any ideas on how to raise public awareness of the option to hire a portable sawmill to make lumber?
I spent an interesting hour on the phone with this gentleman too.   :) :) :)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Nomad

Quote from: kelLOGg on November 19, 2015, 12:43:59 PM
What about a top-down approach such as contacting the city council or county commissioners and ask for the arborist to contact you when a marketable tree is to be removed. It would save the city hauling costs and we sawyers would have a source of logs.
Bob

     I tried that here in Jacksonville, Florida.  I contacted the county urban forester.  He told me in no uncertain terms he wasn't even interested in discussing it.  I thought that was pretty short-sighted, myself.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

beenthere

I think the Urban Forester must have a job where he/she is recommending or advising when trees must be removed. Be it from a disease, or becoming a danger to the public, or in the way of an improvement. Those are some of the reasons that must be given to homeowners or the public for taking out "their" favorite trees.

If one of those reasons happens to be "there is useful wood that can be sawn from these trees", then the Urban Forester may be accused of having ulterior motives for tree removal and maybe a conflict of interest. I can see where the Urban Forester wants to stay aloof from turning beautiful trees into useful wood products. 
After all, it has been the motives of the enviro's for decades to resist harvesting timber for wood products.     
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

WIwoodworker

I turn more trees away than I take from local property owners. The key is offering to buy good trees. Once people know you pay they will find you.
Peterson 9" WPF

Nomad

Quote from: beenthere on November 19, 2015, 06:48:21 PM
I think the Urban Forester must have a job where he/she is recommending or advising when trees must be removed. Be it from a disease, or becoming a danger to the public, or in the way of an improvement. Those are some of the reasons that must be given to homeowners or the public for taking out "their" favorite trees.

If one of those reasons happens to be "there is useful wood that can be sawn from these trees", then the Urban Forester may be accused of having ulterior motives for tree removal and maybe a conflict of interest. I can see where the Urban Forester wants to stay aloof from turning beautiful trees into useful wood products. 
After all, it has been the motives of the enviro's for decades to resist harvesting timber for wood products.   

     You are quite correct.  And I understand that; but he wasn't even interested in using logs cut for legitimate reasons.  He said they just paid to dispose of the wood.  Period.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Tom the Sawyer

I was contacted by the same guy, looking to develop a software program for sawmills. 

Awareness is a constant battle.  Visibility on the internet is a big advantage.  Even if you don't have website (if not, why not?), get listed in the on-line search sites... not which one? - all you can find.

If you had a tree(s) down, who would you ask?  Tree services could be a great source of referrals.  I have provided cards and brochures to quite a few but, it seems, when I get referrals through tree services, it is ones where I have milled for them personally or bought logs from them.  It is a hard market to break in to.  Some of them have their own mills or stockpile logs and have their own sales. 

Also consider your county extension agents.  My two local county agents have an acrylic display in their offices with my cards and brochures.  Farm or feed stores have community bulletin boards.  Have an interesting urban lumber job coming up? Tip off the local paper or cable news.  They may not think it is that interesting but, if they do show up, you'll reach a lot of people.   

Don't miss a chance to meet, and get to know your local/regional state forester.  They are constantly in contact with property owners who plant, grow, and remove trees.  Attend, or participate in, field days whenever you can - offer a mill demonstration.

Cities and counties deal with urban trees and their needs are growing quickly.  I have worked for at least 7 local cities and counties so far, more on the horizon.  Salvaging urban trees is a win-win if the story is told properly. 

When you work in urban or suburban areas (or visible from rural roadways), make sure anyone walking or driving by can see your business name.  I have had clients report that more than a year after they had something milled, someone knocked on their door looking for my contact information. 

Last weekend I milled on the SW side of Topeka, Kansas (about 45 miles away).  On the way home I couldn't pass up the significantly cheaper gas prices (my F350 get 7.5 mpg).  Stopping took half an hour, three different guys walked up and asked questions (2 were property owners with logs on the ground).  They had no idea there were any portable mills in the area... answered questions, passed out cards and brochures.

Individual property owners and woodworkers need to discover that they can hire their own sawmill, and at a reasonable cost.  The concept of portable sawmills, and salvaging urban timber, is an ecologically sound idea, a meme, that needs to be spread.  Tell someone about what you do today, don't just sit back and wait for them to find us.

07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Magicman

Apparently Steve Larosiliere did his homework here on the FF looking for sawyers to contact.  :P
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

thecfarm

Put a sign out by the road. Make it big so someone can see it at whatever speed they drive by. I dislike a sign that I cannot see doing the speed limit.
Most have no idea what a sawmill look like. I even had one guy think that my 3pt winch was a log splitter.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

justallan1

I just did a craigslist search in your area and there are a couple adds for sawing logs.
Where I'm at folks put their ads in several sections of CL with bunches of pics. People love pics!
Also most towns have a yard sale site or so and it sure seems that these sites are also the local news and gossip hub. Folks will "tag" their friends and family, pointing them to your add, plus most that I have seen will let you add a link to your website.

SawyerBrown

Quote from: Magicman on November 19, 2015, 09:24:10 PM
Apparently Steve Larosiliere did his homework here on the FF looking for sawyers to contact.  :P

Yup, that's the guy!  I don't think I generated many ideas for him linking the "sawmill business" with software, but, hey, maybe he'll come up with something!  Don't want to squash new ideas.

@Tom the Sawyer, great ideas, thanks, especially about contacting city/county planners, and local/state foresters.  It IS a great story!  How did you go about presenting to those folks, if you don't mind me asking?

Again, the issue is not about finding me/us, especially if we have a website and can be found with most search engines.  Step #2 in the process is finding a local sawyer;  step #1 in the process is deciding to mill logs/trees you have into usable/sellable lumber instead of just disposing of them.  How do we get people to Step #1?
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

warren46

Check out  http://treecycleamerica.com for an individual that is trying this in North Carolina.  He has an interesting idea.  I have picked up logs from him and have sold lumber through his organization.
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

terrifictimbersllc

Looks like this plan makes the tree service the point people, to drop the logs off at a certified sawmill.  Nothing wrong with that but a lot of my customers call me before they choose a tree service, and I'm not a sawmill that logs can be brought to (100% portable).  How to get more people to automatically think of using the wood and looking up a portable mill service, not just the ones who know where wood comes from.  :D ::) :D ::) ;) ;) ;)
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Cedarman

Just a wild idea.  If the Sierra Club has a chapter within your area, visit a meeting and explain that you are in the business of making something useful out of trees they may have to remove from their property.  Most do not like the idea of cutting down a tree, but   those that own property may be faced sooner or later with a tree removal problem.  By letting them know that you can keep the logs from going to a landfill or chipper,  they may be willing to work with you.  Like I said a wild idea.  Would make for an interesting evening anyway.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

outpost22

Coming from the landscape industry, I might suggest that you also contact local landscape trade organizations.  Landscape contractors, maintenance people and architects come across many trees that need thinning or removal, mostly due to "construction kill" or competition  among trees for space and need thinning.  Most are cut for firewood. I'm sure many contractors would prefer the wood is repurposed and could in turn let the owners know of this option.  The same goes for builders organizations. Contact their board or do a brief presentation at a local meeting. This may provide a good business source.
My experience with urban foresters has been 50/50. Many of them can't be seen as biased toward your business or create liability to the municipality.
Creating one more project one at a time.
Burg Bandsaw Mill
Stihl 010
Stihl 210
Stihl 251
Stihl 461
Husky 350
Kubota L3800

ScottInCabot

As a fella with a 'full-time' job, I do the hobby-sawyer thing on the three days a week that I'm not working....  That said, the hardest part of it for me is having to indicate to customers that I'm backed up until next year with timber.

Maybe that means there really isn't a 'problem'?
Being seen on the weekend milling gives me more then enough business....



Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

starmac

I may be wrong, but I think it is going to be hard to talk most homeowners that are just having a tree or two removed to have it milled. It sure wouldn't hurt to get the awareness of the option out though, as some that are into woodworkig or would like something built out of their favorite tree would surely go for it.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

drobertson

 I've read a few posts, and will say this, most folks that take trees down know the value, whether sentimental or intrinsic in value.  Those that will use the wood will do so and  for the most part understand the drill, for the most part.
as to education to them, as a whole good luck with this,  it seems there are too many irons in the fire for most folks to worry about it, they just want the trees down for whatever reason.  Most likely due to storm threats.   I say set your cost, sell what you can, wherever you can and move on.   
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Nomad

     My experience has been that most homeowners having trees removed are not woodworkers.  Therefore, they couldn't care less what happens to the log as long as it's removed and doesn't cost extra, take more time, or leave a mess behind.  It's unwanted trash and treated accordingly.  If you can't be "Johnny on the spot" and haul the log away free they're not interested.
     On the other hand, the rest of 'em are people we can deal with.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

Magicman

Many of my customers are landowners that have an outbreak of Pine Beetles or a lightening killed tree.  They gather up enough to saw and most times, it is framing lumber.  Oh and they generally just happen to have a few ERC logs.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Tom the Sawyer

SawyerBrown,

in re: contacting governmental employees about salvaging tree removals.  I worked for a municipality (as a police supervisor) and developed contacts within the parks department.  Whenever they were taking a tree down, they would call to see if I wanted it - I didn't have a mill at that time - I was hiring portable mills, when I could find them.

When I retired and bought my mill, I expanded my contacts to other agencies.  I sent a cover letter with brochure and card to every municipal forester within 50 miles, or to the park supervisor if they didn't have a forester.  The city I had worked for realized the value of salvaging their logs so they save them and periodically have me come in and mill them.  The lumber is used for many city/park projects.  They even gave a presentation to other park supervisors, told them what they were doing and the word spread, but slowly. 

Two years ago I signed up as a vendor for the Kansas Arborist Association conference.  I was the only mill, mixed in with people selling safety equipment, rigging and every kind of chainsaw you could imagine.  I set up the mill and milled the host's logs while handing out cards and answering questions.  As a vendor I was also given a chance to give a brief introduction to those attending, about 250 people.  Many city and county foresters were in attendance.  Most of the new, governmental jobs I have landed came out of this conference.   ;)

For agencies, and tree services, not only is converting logs to lumber a viable option, it is usually cost effective.  In many cases, there are disposal fees (grinding or dump fees) associated with that 'debris'.  For agencies, the yield from milling can save them from going out to buy lumber for projects, and usually allow them to get better quality lumber than they would have had using low bid processes. 

The 'green' aspect of salvaging urban timber should be highlighted.  City administrators, staff and representatives are sensitive to the public's opinion.  Just suggest reducing the population of deer, or feral cats, in an urban park and see what happens.  Encourage them to post an article in the city newsletter (positive PR is always welcome).  If you can get mentioned in a newspaper, cable news, or magazine, that is a real plus.  Those links are easily passed around in emails.  [Check out Dave Boyt's article on Tom The Sawyer in the August/September 2015 issue of Independent Sawmill and Woodlot Magazine.] 

To naysayers, I agree that it is not an easy path.  That doesn't mean that it doesn't need to be done - it is certainly not for everybody.  About a year ago I heard about new standards proposed by the Tree Care Industry Association.  They were developing an ANSI A300 standard - Section 11 Urban Forest Products - related to what happens to the woody 'waste' after tree removals. 

The proposed standard would have required (those that comply with their standards) to consider the highest and best use of the pending removal.  If it contained decent saw logs, then they weren't supposed to be able to chop them up.  Obviously, that would require implementation over several years because 'that isn't how we do it now", "who's gonna pay for that?", etc., but it definitely was a step in the right direction.  After the public comment period, they pulled the proposed standard to prepare it for final approval.  Unfortunately, I didn't think to download the .pdf file and the final version has not yet been published.  :'(

Again, it is getting the meme out there, getting people talking.  Some will fight it, others will try it (us) out, and hopefully be pleased with the results.   ;)
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

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