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Anyone cutting cross ties on an LT35

Started by WV Sawmiller, November 11, 2015, 05:33:41 PM

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drobertson

It always seems to be how much an hour,, fact is if you do indeed make four face cuts to produce a cant of any size, then this should be 5 minutes a log, for the folks that have not sawn ties well it may be better not to give input. material handling is the same as any sawmill operation, it should facilitate ease on the off bearing, and the stacks should be planed out.  It really is simple, but can redundant.  As stated before there is always will be issues with blades and potential break downs,  so it is what it is, saw milling.  A bird in hand is better than two in the bush,  nuff said,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Kbeitz

It's no problem getting rit of the scrap wood.
I made three 4x4x4' boxes and fill them with the scrap.
I park it along the road and sell it for $30.00 a box.
It goes fast and I dont have to deal with the scrap.



 

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

drobertson

 one might as well talk about grits,, this vet wants to know about sawing ties, not fire wood, but if he does four slabs he will have plenty of it,,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Kbeitz

Quote from: drobertson on November 12, 2015, 06:10:26 PM
one might as well talk about grits,, this vet wants to know about sawing ties, not fire wood, but if he does four slabs he will have plenty of it,,

I was just says what to do with all the waste...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

WV Sawmiller

     Wasted lumber and disposal of by-products is not my problem. Potential lost income from the side lumber or firewood is not my issue. Finding/Providing help and stacking is not my problem. Marketing and the price for ties is not my problem - I don't care if he sells them for $11 or $100 each.

    As I understand at this point the client would be staging piles of logs in landings along the road and I would pull up beside them and saw them. When I was done with a pile I'd hook up and move down the road to the next pile.

    I would just be sawing his logs.  He'd find, provide and pay for the help.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

taylorsmissbeehaven

I don't know nothing! But it sounds like a good gig to me. If you can swing it give it a try with no promises. At least you will have tried and know if its for you or not. If it is, make a few bucks, if it isn't gracefully bow out and look for the next opportunity. Opportunity is missed by most cause it shows up in bib overalls and looks like work (old saying). I would love to hear all about it and how it worked out great. JMTC Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

Kingmt

I don't have any input myself. I'm just reading & going to see how the job ends. Maybe get lucky to see a picture.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Seaman

I agree with the " try it out " club. You do not have to do it again. I would also try to get a couple more dollars per tie just to see what he says.
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

Nomad

     The biggest single issue I see is the "help" he's providing.  With really, really good help you may have a shot at it.  If the help is like what I get sometimes, you might as well be working solo.
Buying a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter
WoodMizer LT50HDD51-WR
Lucas DSM23-19

WH_Conley

I have cut thousands of ties on an LT40. This has the potential to be a good gig. I would look at the setup and point out the help would have to be somebody that would work. What he is offering is about a third of the gross price of the tie. That can vary a little from area to area. If you are moving from pile to pile there is time involved in moving. If at a fixed location you have to move ties, logs and slabs. What about the logs that won't make a tie? Some will make it to the mill that will open up bad or have a little too much sweep or just a little bit too small. Is there a market for cants and what about the shares/fees sawing them. You can cut a tie in 5 minutes. You can not average a tie in five minutes in the run of a day. If you average a tie in 10 minutes in the run of a day for 8 hours that would be about 50 ties a day and there would be cants. Some cants would be from logs that didn't make it as a tie and some would be from side lumber. I sharpen my own blades and allow for sharpening at $10.00 per blade. Very little fuel would be involved in that small amount of cuts. $50.00 should cover blade and fuel. You should come in at about $450.00 a day before wear and tear. Not a bad wage. Bottom line is I would try it for a few days. The variables is the quality of the logs and labor he provides. Give it a week or 2 and see how it works, could be a good gig.
Bill

SawyerBrown

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on November 12, 2015, 07:40:08 PM
Finding/Providing help and stacking is not my problem.
WV, I agree with your other points, but not this one ... in fact, nomad beat me to it.  I've been to a few places where the customer was so well organized and had plenty of help, I could barely keep the mill moving fast enough (@rasman57 ...!!).  But that's the exception rather than the rule.  Often either waiting on the help to catch up (or figuring out where they went  ::) ), or pitching in with moving things around.  If you're going to crank through 50 logs/ties a day for several days, you can't be doing that very much.

I think your job will actually be easier than that of a single helper.  That guy is either going to be a young buck with energy to burn, or he's going to start gasping for air in a few hours.  Just think about off-bearing a single tie -- tough for one guy doing it all day long, along with everything else.

If I were you, I'd insist on 2 helpers, maybe even 3 if they're wanting breaks or to rotate jobs.  That keeps you sawing and not doing other stuff.

Other than that, I'm with the others ... go for it!!
Pete Brown, Saw It There LLC.  Wood-mizer LT35HDG25, Farmall 'M', 16' trailer.  Custom sawing only (at this time).  Long-time woodworker ... short-time sawyer!

Ohio_Bill

A few years ago a company that I have sold Ties to did a pamphlet to show the advantages of sawing ties over low grade lumber. One of there points was revenue per saw line. . I am going to exclude kerf in this example.
If you cut the 12inch log into 1 inch boards you would have 10 saw lines per log and if you charged .25 per bf your revenue per saw line would be $1.05
If you are sawing that same log into a 7 by 9 tie with the arrangement you have there will be 4 saw lines with a revenue of $ 2.50 per saw line.
So every time you make a trip down the log you make $2.50  instead of $1.05 .
That would make me smile all day . 8)
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

gww

Ohio bill

QuoteSo every time you make a trip down the log you make $2.50  instead of $1.05 .

I don't cut for money and have a manual mill, however when adding cost, my turning the log could be worth more then the cut line after the turn.

I am wondering if I am looking at this wrong as I am unexperianced and not being critical of what you are saying.  Just wondering.
Thanks
gww

Ps  I know in this situation what you say is gold but if it was differrent and the guy cutting also got the boards, it would surly be worth getting the extra .25 per board foot that is around the tie.

Ps Ps  I wish I hadn't posted this cause it is a stupid point as the job in question is what it is. Note to self, Think before engaging fingers.

Ohio_Bill

gww       
This was there example to try to show the advantage of sawing ties. I understand your point but the log has to be turned 4 times at least no mater what you saw and your right I was addressing his situation. I don't mean to highjack the thread but one of the advantages of producing something like a ties or a timber is lack of cuts. Every time the blade makes a cut you loose a percentage of your product in sawdust.

Thanks
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

WV Sawmiller

   Thx to all for your input. Good history, background and points to ponder.

WH_C,

    Good point about logs cut that don't make the grade. I will include that in discussion - might suggest he provides the logs. I cut them and get paid whether he can sell it or not.

    I don't understand the comment about the cants. All I'd be cutting would be the ties. Everything else is client owned scrap as far as I am concerned.

Sawyer,

   Thanks for the points. I will be sure to keep the "help" high on the list. Maybe the help is getting paid by the piece also. Provides more incentive but he may not need much and be happy with less then me.

   My grandfather once set up a tie cutting business back when this was a manual operation with only 2 sides squared. He paid about 3 times the going rate and could still make a decent profit but his crew would only work 1-2 days. He cut pay and they'd work 4 days. Finally cut to going rate and they'd work all week and beg of overtime on weekends. I think the cutters normally got a nickel a tie and Grandpa started out paying 15 cents and selling for a quarter.  Dropped to a dime then to a nickel was only way to keep a crew cutting full time.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WH_Conley

Pallet Cants. In my area the standard is 3 1/2" by 6". If a log is below grade for a tie you can still get a couple of cants out of it.
Bill

WV Sawmiller

Bill,

   I could suggest several salvage options for poor wood including making pallet cants but these are not my logs and not sure if the guy has or wants to deal with a contract with any pallet makers.

   If this were my wood I'd try to figure some way to sell everything but I can't stress enough - It is not my logs. I'd just be sawing to the customer specs and all he has indicated he wants is 7"X9"X8' ties. He has been crystal clear I'd only be making 4 cuts per log and no indication he wants anything else.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WH_Conley

As long as he understands that leaving 100 logs doesn't guarantee 100 ties you should be good to go. Not all logs are created equal. A log that looks good from the loader seat might open up with a knot hole that cull's it or have too much sweep. Good luck with the venture.
Bill

beenthere

And you should get paid on the logs you saw, not on the ties that meet the tie grade from the logs you saw.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

brandonward6

I would charge him a little more because you will still be lifting an heaving around on heavy ties. I can tell you he is probably going to take them to Sutton just below the dam to the treatment plant and in the summer they were paying somewhere around $32 bucks a cant for standard size..it would be worth it for him and you to split it down the middle after trucking cost. he supply the logs and helper and you have the mill.

WV Sawmiller

Beenthere,

   I agree and will discuss that. Costs me just as much to saw a reject tie as a Grade A #1 gold spike bearing tie.

Brandon,

    Why? If he pays me what we agree on I don't care how much he makes on them. I'm not interested in a partnership. What if he only gets $18 a tie? Do we cut my price? He's taking the risk and I'm keeping my life simple enjoying what I like to do. If I'd wanted complicated I'd get a job selling ladies shoes.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

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