Fransgard V3500 Clutch & Operation Questions

Red Horse Farm · November 10, 2015, 01:39:35 AM

I recently rebuilt a disaster of a Fransgard V3500 that was given to me - short version is it was sitting in the woods for over 10 years & prior to that was abused behind a 80hp AGCO tractor. This unit seemed like the perfect match for my JD 4120 CUT with 45hp and around 6000lb operating weight

The rebuild consisted of a complete teardown, replacing all bearings, some welding, straightening freeing stuck parts, new cable, sandblasting all parts, paint, etc. I had been pleased to note that the clutch was in very good condition so it was reused.

Everything seems to work great, however I'm not sure I'm getting the rated pull and the clutch seems hard to operate. Then again, I've never owned or operated one of these winches so I have nothing to compare it to or know what to expect. I did adjust the clutch a couple times as per the manual

I read reports of these winches being capable of standing up or dragging a tractor backward on a hard pull and have seen some of the pretty large pulls they seem capable of. I don't seem to have the same success - while it does work, I'm just not sure how strong it is. To get a decent pull I have to brace against the tractor and pull with everything I have on the clutch rope & even still the clutch will slip occasionally long before the tractor moves

Warming the clutch up after a couple pulls seems to help a little, but not enough to make and real difference. I feel like I should replace the clutch disc after reading some reports of people having issues with chain oil soaked into the friction material, but I just wanted to check here first to make sure I'm not expecting too much out of this thing

Couple pics below clearing a little ash to make way for some fill from the town - not very good shots of the winch overall but it's what I could find

Thanks for any help

thecfarm · November 10, 2015, 06:31:52 AM

A five year old could pull the rope on mine. I have the blade on mine,as long as it will dig into the ground,the tractor is not going anywheres. Something has to slip when you are pulling too much,or come up against something. If not something will break,be it the cable,something easy to fix,or something inside the tractor. I have seen mine uproots small stumps and rocks and dig into the ground and keep pulling. Than sometimes there is nothing there and it won't winch it in. ??? I've winched in ALOT of big pine with mine.

g_man · November 10, 2015, 07:36:08 AM

Looks like you did a nice job on the re-hab.

When you are pulling the rope hard before the clutch slips do you hear the tractor engine starting to work hard or even lug down ?? It should if your clutch is right. If it is adjusted right it sounds like your clutch face is suspect or there is a bind in the engagement mechcanism. Give it some work before you redo the clutch face. It might help clean the face up.

Mine is 6400 lb pull. That is enough to move a decent log.

gg

GAB · November 10, 2015, 08:50:00 AM

On a lot of winches the number is the number of kilograms of pull they are capable of pulling. Since the conversion is 2.2 pounds per kilogram then a V3500 is capable of 7700 pounds of pull, a V4000 is 8800 pounds, etc.
Gerald

Red Horse Farm · November 10, 2015, 09:48:46 AM

Thanks for all the replies! Sounds like I may be getting some decent line pull, but with way too much effort on my part. When I say I have to lean into this clutch, I mean I put gloves on to keep the small winch line from digging into my hands, put my feet on the base of the winch & haul back as hard as I possibly can for the entire duration of the pull - if I didn't do this, I'd get nearly nothing at all but slip except for the easiest pulls. If the log snags on something or digs into the ground, the clutch still may slip and everything may come to a stop or I luck out and it smashes its way through whatever and keeps going.

When I pull this hard, the winch will load the engine at idle enough that I bump it up to 1500rpm or so. The tractor is visibly taking a load at this point & the winch feet do dig in a little. I don't like running this thing any faster as things tend to get a little quick after that!

I definitely agree that the clutch should slip to prevent damage to anything else & I'm sure that's how it's designed, I just can't imagine having to work it this hard to keep the clutch engaged. I think the most popular winch sold in my area with my 4000 series JD now is the Fransgard V4000 so I'm really not that far off in terms of rated pulling power for the size machine I have. I guess I feel like the tractor has plenty of weight and power to handle the winch pulling harder than it does - that's the only gauge I have and what I'm basing all this on. This is all very subjective, I understand.

Thanks very much for the replies - I guess I'll keep using it for a while & see if it gets a little better. Overall this sure beats the hell out of any other method I've ever used. Love being able to just leave the tractor in one place safely up at the landing and winch the logs right to me, or snake selective cuts out of a tight spot.

beenthere · November 10, 2015, 10:02:55 AM

The rig looks good but for the need to pull so hard to get the clutch to engage and hold.

Maybe look real close at the mechanical advantage you have with your rope and the clutch engagement. Sounds like you maybe are losing ground there... linkage not quite right. Try to gain mechanical advantage some way, such as adding a couple more rope pulley's or a change to the lever arm at the clutch.
But your suspicion that the clutch needs a tear-down might also be correct.

Either way, should not have to pull that hard to engage and keep the clutch engaged.

Red Horse Farm · November 10, 2015, 10:29:12 AM

Quote from: beenthere on November 10, 2015, 10:02:55 AM
The rig looks good but for the need to pull so hard to get the clutch to engage and hold.

Maybe look real close at the mechanical advantage you have with your rope and the clutch engagement. Sounds like you maybe are losing ground there... linkage not quite right. Try to gain mechanical advantage some way, such as adding a couple more rope pulley's or a change to the lever arm at the clutch.
But your suspicion that the clutch needs a tear-down might also be correct.

Either way, should not have to pull that hard to engage and keep the clutch engaged.

I thought about this - it appears that this is the factory lead for the rope, but being so old and with somewhat poor parts diagrams I may not have it quite right. This is also how it was when I got the winch, but that means absolutely nothing based on its previous condition and "modifications" that were made.

I thought about sliding a short pipe over the clutch lever and moving it directly to see if it's really a leverage problem. The engagement mechanism works nice and smooth & I had it all apart, blasted, painted & greased so I doubt that's the problem.

Mostly trying to come up with a reason not to take the drum out again, but it may come to that

Red Horse Farm · November 10, 2015, 10:45:36 AM

Got me thinking - searched around a bit and found this picture. Looks like I don't have the rope led anywhere close to factory. Most importantly I'm giving up significant advantage by not having the additional pulley lead. \

not sure how much this would really help, but it certainly is a factor. The handle is a good idea, too. Not sure I like how you have to pull up in this example, but a little messing around and I'm sure I could change the leads and still maintain a 3:1 advantage like this.

Old Forester · November 10, 2015, 11:01:12 AM

I have what looks to be the same winch. I welded about a 12" to 18' bar on the handle. (what appears to be part number 533 on the preceding diagram) Seemed to help a lot.

Red Horse Farm · November 10, 2015, 12:13:06 PM

Quote from: Old Forester on November 10, 2015, 11:01:12 AM
I have what looks to be the same winch. I welded about a 12" to 18' bar on the handle. (what appears to be part number 533 on the preceding diagram) Seemed to help a lot.

I think I'm going to try this route first except I'll just slip a pipe over the lever handle as an experiment. If it's the result I'm looking for, I'll make more permanent changes

Thanks to everyone for the help! Should be back in the woods this weekend so I'll try er out and report back

beenthere · November 10, 2015, 01:23:17 PM

Looks like you are on the right track for a solution... hope it works out for you and you don't have to go into the clutch again.

Red Horse Farm · November 26, 2015, 02:13:41 AM

Wanted to close out the thread with my solution in case anyone else searches for a similar problem -

Made a 18" clutch handle extension bar out of 3/16" rectangular tubing & it's a night and day difference. I can stall the tractor at idle and drag it backwards at 1500rpm now so basically the winch is now able to work up to the tractor's capacity.

Not sure if this is really the correct solution, but it sure works!

Thanks to all for the suggestions

John Mc · November 29, 2015, 02:52:53 PM

My winch is not the same brand, but there are several pulleys involved to give a mechanical advantage. It's more comfortable to pull with gloves, but I can certainly do it bare-handed if needed. I would add the pulleys as shown in the diagram. You don't necessarily need to pull UP on it, as long as you have a clear path to pull without fouling.