Cheapest way to dispose of 2000 medium growth pine stumps?

[FarmLife2007]

Property owner here.   Got about 4 acres of medium growth (12-16" dia) pines that are being harvested. I'm guessing I have about 2000 stumps, though that may be a little high. Trees are being felled and loaded out by the timber company, leaving me with stumps in the ground and tops. Area will be grubbed with 336, raked, and returned to use as pasture (it was last in service 25 years ago).

Question is what to do with all the stumps and tops. I have a landfill about 30 minutes away, but they charge $40 per ton. Can anyone wager a guess to how much weight is in 2000 average medium size pine stumps? I figure a LOT enough to be cost prohibitive.

Grinding them on site is plan B, but I'd still have chips to dispose of. Grinders are expensive to lease.

That leaves burning. Pit burners are not cheap and we'd get billed whether rain or shine. As wet as the winter is forecast to be that could be more problem than I want to fool with.

I only have the four acres to work with, and am having a hard time picturing 2000 stumps piled up, or how quickly they might burn down given optimal weather conditions.

Am I right in thinking that burning on top fo the ground is the "best" way to dispose of the stumps & tops?   

[4x4American]

I'm guessin you'll have an excavator rippig them out?  About the cheapest way is to dig a deep hole and bury them.  When you dump em in lift em up high as you can so they pack themselves in there.  And every 5-6 stumps just reach down there and pack em in.  Do it somewhere where you dont care about because as they rot the ground will settle.  Also make sure to cut stumps low as you can and when you pick them up drop em from high up a few times to bust off most of the dirt and roots that u can.

[Holmes]

I will say do not bury them.  Quite a few years ago someone buried a lot of pine stumps here in Ma.  The ended up turning to turpentine and polluting a lot of wells in the area they were buried.  If the stumps weigh 75 lbs each it would cost you $3000 to dump them.  They probably weigh more than that.  Buy a stump grinder for your tractor, sell it when done?

[4x4American]

2000 stumps seems like a lot.  But as long as you have the excavator to bury em, might as well rent a 15 ton machine and use it to do the job yourself, just push em over and lay em out then you can buck them and cut the stump off plus it makes getting the stump out much easier/faster.

[4x4American]

If you're burying stumps and you hit water, stop!  Fill in a bit.  But as long as you're not near any wells should be fine.

[Jeff]

I can tell you that burying hardwood stumps anywhere there will be habitation is not a good idea unless you don't have an issue with the ground sinking where they are buried. It takes a few years, but it will happen, In fact, I can get a photo of such an event from my neighbors back yard. I'll do that here in a little bit.

[Jeff]

I tried and tried to get some perspective on how deep this is, but you just can't see it in the photo.  They buried stumps here when they cleared the back yard. Certainly less than 20 stumps, red oak and maple, maybe 12"- 16" trees around 15 years ago.  In the last two years the sink hole has developed. Its 2 to 3 feet deep in the center now and about 15 feet across.   Its dramatic in person. At least a lot of his leaves gather there. There is probably a foot of them in there now ;)



 

[4x4American]

I still contend that it is the cheapest method of getting rid of stumps.  If you do it out in the middle of nowhere it's not gonna bother.  What you can do is when you backfill, heap it up, compact as best you can so you have a bit of a hill.  Then eventually it might be level...what's that Dave Scott talks about in the seminar video, temporarily right or temp. wrong?  lol 


There's some ole boys down the road a piece from here, they have a lot of land, well they bought an old excavator and a payloader.  They dug about a 10 acre hole I'd guess, just huge.  Sold the gravel and they had people from all around bringing them stumps.  They made a killing off of it. 

[LAForestry]

Back in 05 after hurricane Ivan came through I did a lot of debris clean up and I remember doing about a 2 acre job close to what your doing. The trees where either blown over or broke off anywhere from 6 ft off the ground up to the tops. We raked all the loose material up in piles and then got up the stumps or whatever was left sticking up. Then dug a couple of good size holes and pushed in the stuff we knew would have no problem burning. Then we rolled the stumps around a little knocking most of the dirt off, then once we got the debris in the hole burning good we put the stumps on top. Worked pretty well, I mean there were a few that didn't burn up but over all it worked well.

[4x4American]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdV6ZnnRY6o


Go to 1:45 and watch, get a fire like that going and you should be allright just try to get most of the dirt off.

[Jeff]

Thats what I would do, burn em if allowable.

[nhlogga]

Are there any companies around that have a grinder and make bark mulch? I know a guy that brings in an excavator or 2 and will grind and haul off the grindings for mulch.

[Jeff]

That's a good idea too.

[mad murdock]

You could fence off the area and run hogs in it for a time, In about a year or so most of the stumps would be uprooted enough to pick up and burn.  Aside from that method, burning is what I would do, if'n it was a job I was going to do.  I would dig the hole, knock the stumps around as much as possible, then put some good specimens in there, get a fire going nice and hot, and pile the rest on.  After burning was over, I would cover the rest over with top fill. 

[beenthere]

Farmlife2007
Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

I'd consider the cost of removing compared to cost of the few years of letting them rot in place. Likely the feeder roots will rot in a year or two and at least make rolling out the stump that much easier and carry less dirt with it. Another few years after, the land can be tilled and put back into pasture.
Being in a hurry, will be costly as well. You have a choice, money or time.

Click on your forum name and you will get to your profile for putting in your location. Will help answer your questions for us to know that. ;)

[Rocky_Ranger]

Commercial stump grinder.  The amount of chips won't be that great and because much more surface area is exposed they will disintegrate in a hurry.

[Maine372]

don't some of the forestry mowers have the ability to go sub-grade? just mulch the tops, stumps and everything in with the topsoil.

[Puffergas]

Sell them as fatwood.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwood

[Oliver05262]

  You could just roll them out, knock off all the dirt you can with the excavator, and use them for a fence on your pasture.
http://northernwoodlands.org/knots_and_bolts/out-by-the-roots.
For a long time, there used to be an old stump fence next to Route 7 in New Haven, VT, where Rt 17 goes west.
Oliver

[tmbrcruiser]

One thing I know for sure, you need to check with the Department of Natural Resource before you bury any stumps. In Delaware the fine would not be worth the risk. Tub grinder should be cheaper than hauling and paying a tipping fee. Many folks with grinders will remove the fiber as part of the agreement. Usually this is does not add cost to the job because the operator is paid for the fiber that can be made into mulch. If this seems to expensive another thought would be to wind row the stumps for 5 or 6 years. After that amount of time the stumps should rot away and the piles should be good top soil. I piled the stumps in a wind row from my house lot after five or six years I spread the pile and now have the best grass in that area.

[SineWave]

I would just pile them up, set them on fire and if need be, let them smolder all winter. Shouldn't bother the neighbors too much, since their windows should be closed in winter.

Might need to re-kindle them a few times.

[coxy]

it is against the law to burn stumps in ny  DEC says they are toxic while burning  and you need a permit to remove them from one property to another I learnt the hard way  ;D

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, FarmLife2007.  Much depends upon where the property is and any restrictions/regulations.  Especially since you also have the tops to dispose of, burning would be the most economical if allowed.

[4x4American]

it is against the law to burn stumps in ny  DEC says they are toxic while burning  and you need a permit to remove them from one property to another I learnt the hard way  ;D

NYS is awful!!  I was just over to VT, getting a truck oil bath undercoated for the winter (another illegal business to have in NY) and they have a gun shop while you wait.  The lady said don't drool too much cause half the stuff we have here is illegal in NYS...Just rub it in why don't ya!! Lol

[BEEMERS]

I hate burying stumps and try t talk property owners out of it. it takes a huge hole and makes a huge pile  ( of sand here.) and when you grade it back off you have a huge ever sinking sand pit.
Ive cleared acreage and the land owner wanted it in berms with access points into the field to channel deer for hunting.That worked really well with a big dozer.
Ive hauled it all away..Who can afford that????
Id advice an excavator with a thumb...get a good hot pile with dry wood..better yet.two or three and start feeding the cleanest smallest stumps as the fire grows and if it works the fire will consume stumps very well.
Put a few fires located so the excavator isn't tracking far and keep feeding them..if you get one overloade go to the next one.
I haul semi loads and dump truck loads of stumps and brush onto my property throughout the year and having all the possible options..I make a small fire and start feeding it..come back every few hours and pile more on..in a few days youd be amazed at what dissappears

[Dixon700]

I have a small part of my property probably a little more than a half acre that's thick pine. Biggest one is probably about 16"  most are around 10". I'm returning all of them to nature. They aren't big enough to sell, I don't have a wood stove at all anymore, my grandfather has an indoor and won't burn pine, and I'm tired of looking at them.... so I'm spreading them out as fill about 10' tall as fill down by my power line then will cover them up with dirt. So im really hoping the township cleans up our road this year. I really need the fill. Lol

[Brandon1986]

I deal with between 100 and 200 acres of stumps a year doing the excavation side of our business (this will be year 18 for us so we have a little experience).  Where I am located there is some real nice gravel which we usually need for the site we are working on, so we bury them.  Depending on the material in your neck of the woods you can bury them not have a massive sink hole later, and have a nice product to show for it (I.E. clean gravel). When I built my personal house nearly 10 years ago I buried about an acre of stumps and debris, and now I have a sink hole of MAYBE 6" (I could fill it back with a pickup) This saved me most likely thousands of dollars in gravel import.  The way to accomplish this is not just dig a hole and shove the stumps in there that's how you wind up with 3' sink holes.  First and foremost when you pop the stumps do your best to shake all the dirt out of and off of them (an energetic hoe with a thumb is a great way to go preferably in the EX200 size). Once you have a pile of clean stumps and wood (no duff or sod) dig your hole all the while sorting sod from soil from gravel (this will be important for a nice finish). Once your hole is dug put about 4' of stumps in it flatten it off and trickle some gravel in the voids between stumps until it is full or mostly full then take a bucket full of gravel and spend about 5 min (this depends on the size of your hole) and bucket pack that lift.  (If you don't fill the bucket it terrorizes pins and bushings and if you don't shake out the dirt out of the stumps you wont have voids for the load bearing material to fall into) repeat this process until you are about 6' from ground level put your duff in until its about a foot low, bucket pack, then your save soil bucket pack grade off and rake out.  In 10 years you MIGHT have to put half a yard to a yard of material back into that sink hole.  There are a lot of contingencies on this depending on where you are at soils type water table ect, but it will dispose of your waste and bring to the surface a possible usable product for other projects.  There's my $.02 for what its worth
Brandon

[BEEMERS]

The material sifting in to the voids is just the first faze.As the stumps start to rot down those holes will sink..by several feet. Ive got some subdivisions around here where everything was buried in the front yards and the are still sinking..50 years later. Weve been at it for 51 years and no we didn't bury those stumps.
Sometimes I get a call after a propane truck went to its axles in the shallow hole,,,Ive been filling them in all my life.and it doesn't really seem to be slowing down.
If you've got a valuable product coming out of the ground that's a different story..as long as it is valuable enough to offset all the work filling tamping etc. Im sure a nice gravel would make it worth it but don't think the volume of the stumps wont decrease by 80 or so percent..it may take a 50 or more years.Id think the volume of ash after burning would be roughly the volume of soil theyd become after they aren't woodmass anymore.

[Magicman]

Stumps that were ground off and backfilled 25+ years ago continue to rot in my yard and regularly need backfilling. 

[Jeff]

In the sub division next to us, they routinely buried the stumps cleared from the building sites under where they would put the driveways.  I'm guessing these are some of the ones of which Beemers speaks.  many of these driveways were black topped or paved, and they failed. The only way to fix them right was either to move the driveways or dig them out and fill them back in.

Oh, and we live ON a gravel pit basically here, so its not the ground settling the 3 feet, its the stumps rotting down leaving the voids.

[chet]

Back in the early 70's a new roadway was built around the south end of the lake I live near. The logs were salvaged but all slash and stumps were buried under the new roadway.  : Now every one wonders why new sinkholes keep swallowing up the blacktop.

[BEEMERS]

I was referring more to cranberry lake subdivisions Jeff. Every cabin has a sinkhole in front yard but im sure your  area has them too...also On the North west of Arnold lake..Woodshaw estates...they buried the stumps on the sides of the right of way for the road..but not far enough..that was like 40 or more years ago? every few years the edge of road and a bit of the road in several spot falls a few inches..They call a paving company to biuild the asphalt back up and I come in and gravel the edges here and there to build back up to the new asphalt..and a few years later the do some new spots and do the old ones over again because the sunk again..and it seems to be increasing if anything..
BUT...for the advocates of burying..if the material displaced is valuable..and if the area sinks..its an area that will never matter..then why not? Im sure that's the case for a lot of bury situations..AND..there may be burning restrictions in some places..
AND..if you put all those scenarios together and theres no place to take them..and NO allowance for anyone to pay to have them hauled away...Im with ya.

[Clark]

FYI - On four acres I would estimate 500-800 stumps, based on the size you give.

If you're cutting the trees and turning it into pasture I'm trying to figure out why you need the stumps out at all? I've never heard livestock complain about stumps in the ground but I'm no farmer.

Clark

[Brandon1986]

Once again I would say that depends on location. Where I am at the ground temp is 37 deg. in the middle of summer.  Not much rot happens at that temp. I have dug up stump holes from the mid 70's and evidenced no rot from 40 years ago.  90% of settlement occurs from voids filling and no compaction. I bet the rotting would be increased as the ground temp comes up tho.

[beenthere]

Maybe the OP will come back on the Forum and help us help him out.

[BargeMonkey]

 We are fighting the stumps on this last 4 acre clearcut, probably 7-800 total. They don't go thru a grinder to well unless they are clean and split. Buying a few isn't bad but NYS will come after you for running a "stump dump" if you add enough of them. I would clean them off, pile them up root ball up and burn them in a yr. A grinder big enough to eat stumps has been costing 3k a day, not counting 2 excavators and the loader, not cheap.

[petefrom bearswamp]

If you are just making pasture. dispose of the tops seed the rest and let momma nature do the stump removal.
regarding burning here in NY it is a problem.
I have an edging pile about 15 ft high x 25 wide and 25 long which may spontaneously combust this december

[SuzannaDWilcox]

Disposing pine stumps with the help of blacktop seems to be risky instead you can dig the stumps.You can take help from various DIY blogs regarding disposing of pine stumps.Otherwise taking help from some professional is also a good idea.After removing the stump fill in the hole and cover it with driveway paving. You can also take help from driveway paving in Nassau County, Queens or any other places contractors near you.

[danbuendgen]

I do a bit of land clearing with a buddy. We always burn it. As you stump it, make piles of brush and stumps with a excavator. The brush helps the stumps burn. Stumps don't burn well alone. Wait for a rain day or snow and burn it all. Use a hay bale soaked in diesel or waste oil to help get it going. Trucking stumps and paying disposal fees would be a ton of money and very time consuming. Just my .02

[BEEMERS]

I like the diesel soaked hay bale idea..but most of us here have a couple ( at least ) old tires that could disappear........of course,I would never suggest this because its bad...I guess...but hypothetically ...it would really get a big fire going very very well..and big truck tires....in theory would work even better..
If this was to be done ,..which it shouldn't be...do it on an overcast day where the black smoke blends with the fog,clouds and after the fire is ( in theory) raging the smoke clears up and away you go!
This is not a suggestion ,just something I thought up just now..oh well,nevermind its not a good idea..

[WildlandFirefighter912]

Hercules buys fat lighter stumps down here. $$$

http://www.pinovasolutions.com

[Ox]

Beemer - why, whatever do you mean, burning tires?  ;D  But you're absolutely right - it's the best darn thing to get something to burn.  Sometimes it's best to wait until dark thirty to set off a tire for the whole smoke thing.  Hypothetically speaking, of course.  I wouldn't know anything about this.  :D

[BEEMERS]

yes,hypothetically of course. ;) ;)

[teakwood]

Dont feel bad guys. Here a lot of people still burn they trash. Sometimes whole landfilsl of trash burn out. Every dryseason lots of farmers burn they fincas, which is illegal,  to get rid of bad weed and make room for pasture.

[Claybraker]

Hercules buys fat lighter stumps down here. $$$

http://www.pinovasolutions.com

I think it's just slash and longleaf. I've seen a few trailer loads of stumps on the highway that I assume were headed that way. Glad to see somebody (folks out of Canada) bought that plant and upgraded it with a new product mix, spending money on R&d, etc. As a reloader, I sorta wish they still made gunpowder, but I don't see that happening.