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Worried I may Have found a niche

Started by taylorsmissbeehaven, November 05, 2015, 12:54:57 PM

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taylorsmissbeehaven

An old friend of mine carried me over to his neighbors house a few weeks ago to scale some cedar logs. I did and gave him a price. He agreed and wanted to bring them to me because there was no hurry. They show up a week later with a trailer full of cedar. Way more than I scaled and 50% were 6" in between the bark. My friend was really giving him a hard time about these "toothpicks" and he was a bit embarrassed. I gave him a price and he agreed. while cutting these, one of his buddies pulls up with a couple of small logs. Hey man I understand your willing to cut small stuff. Gave him a price, he was good so I cut them. Now my neighbor gets wind of this and dropped of an 10" x 8' cherry to cut.
Does anyone else do this? I still have my LT 15 so I have been cutting on it. You don't need support equipment or even a cant hook which is nice but it is a lot of work for a few boards! Long story long... If your good with the price, I'm happy to slice is becoming my new motto :D :D :D  Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

Tom the Sawyer

Brian,

I do it all the time.  <10" diameter, and/or <6' long = $1.25 p/min ($75 p/hr).
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Magicman

I saw what the customer has and wants to have sawed.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Kingmt

I don't have any customers. Maybe I'm pricing to high. I've had two people ask. One wanted Popular sawed that I offered if he brought it to me I'd do it for half of what we cut since he only wanted a few boards. The other guy wanted 4000bf of Oak cut 1" x6" 8' & 16' that I priced 25 cents a bf.

I'd cut anything if they brought it to me.

I'm I over pricing?
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

bates

No.  I paid $0.26 bf a few years ago.

Kingmt

Quote from: bates on November 05, 2015, 06:50:05 PM
No.  I paid $0.26 bf a few years ago.
Thanks. That guy stopped today & about took off running when I priced it.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

hackberry jake

The way I see it, if you price lower than .25 a bf, you are doing all sawmill owners an injustice. My retired neighbor has a lt40super and he cut for less than .25 a foot for a couple years until he realized he wasn't making enough to justify his time. Now all his past customers ask me what I charge (.35) and they say it's close to double what he charged... Well, that's why he doesn't saw for others anymore. Lost customer
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Magicman

Turn out a good product, charge a fair price, and make no apology. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Kingmt

Truthfully I don't know what a fair price to ether of us is. I basically just grabbed at a number that I thought sounded good since I hadn't thought about it. Sounds like I gave him a good offer from what I'm hearing.

taylorsmissbeehaven
Sorry I hijacked your thread.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

gfadvm

"If you're good with the price, I'm happy to slice". I like that!  I need to get that printed on my cards.

Magicman

Pricing seems to be regional.  I read about low numbers where there is a concentration of Amish sawyers.  Cutthroat sawyers can also skew the market and ruin it for themselves included.  .35bf+ is normal in some areas.  Our sawing market seems settled in at .25bf with a bump to .3bf for sawing 1".  Our hourly rate falls into the $60-$75 range.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

I get .30 for soft and .35 for hard woods.  Hobby guy down road from me with 40 super gets .40/ft.
Boy, back in my day..

dustintheblood

I refused to win the race to the bottom.   Cheaper, cheaper, cheaper..... then realize that the out column of the ledger is a bigger number than the ins.   No point in bashing equipment and body to save someone else money. 

Do a good great job, and the right people will pay well for it.  Then in turn, you have the cash to do the same thing.

I call this dustinomics.  Dang I better copyright that quick....  :) :) :) :)
Case 75C, Case 1494, RangeRoad RR10T36, Igland 4001, Hardy 1400ST, WM LT40HD, WM Edger, ICS DH Kiln

Tom the Sawyer

"Turn out a good product, charge a fair price, and make no apology." Magicman

8/4 - .40 p/bf, 4/4 - .50 p/bf, 2/4 - .95 p/bf
 
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

Ox

For comparison, here it's usually around .30/bf.  I've seen as high as .40 and as low as .23.  .25 is pretty much the bottom dollar I would think.  If that guy ran from you at that price he's not rooted firmly in reality like the rest of us (? ;D) are. 
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

sandsawmill14

i only charge .20 per bdft to the big mills but they have to furnish loader and do the edging if i do thee edging it is .25 bdft :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

YellowHammer

Something to consider regarding niches.
Some are niches because nobody has found them yet.
Some are niches because other people have tried them and gone broke so don't do it anymore.
The best niches are the ones nobody has found AND you can make money doing them. 
Which do you have?

By the way, I charge $.50 per Bdft for sawing.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Percy

Sawing by the board foot can be a double edged sword. I've had customers who would bring me very cruddy/crappy logs and only want to pay for lumber I recovered. I learned from the bigger mills that custom cut customers logs. They charge the customer what the logs scale out if they were sound. That keeps customers from bringing all their crap for you to cut. Works well.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Magicman

I decide whether the job will be board foot rate or hourly rate based on the logs and what the customer wants. 

I generally scale/time such jobs both ways to determine whether I made the right call.  Yup, sometimes I miss and should have gone the other way, but it's close.  I use it as a selling point and remind the customer how good of a deal that he got.   ;D

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Cazzhrdwd

I'm at 1.00 per ft. Usually I'm only custom sawing a few hundred ft. If 1000 bdf were brought to me I'd probably be in the .75 range.

I don't know how you guys saw for .25 per bdf. Moving to someone's site and sawing 1000 bdf is a very long day, to do that for 250.00 is just not nearly enough.

96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Kingmt

I don't even have a clue on his long it takes to cut 1000bf. Like I said I was out on the spot never doing a job for anyone so I just grabbed at a number. I had the customer that I offered to saw for halfs come back today with some cherry. I really have no need for cherry ATM but it sure is purddy stuff. I'll put it away for a future project.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Cazzhrdwd

Quote from: Kingmt on November 07, 2015, 09:05:03 PM
I don't even have a clue on his long it takes to cut 1000bf. Like I said I was out on the spot never doing a job for anyone so I just grabbed at a number. I had the customer that I offered to saw for halfs come back today with some cherry. I really have no need for cherry ATM but it sure is purddy stuff. I'll put it away for a future project.

I saw for FAS and if I saw 1000 in a day, I'm one tired pup.

Sawed a 26" 16' red oak butt log yesterday, big logs like that can be a huge waste of time, took me half the day to do it but I got 584 ft of the nicest clear lumber. Three boards were 22.5" wide. We'll see what they do in the kiln in a few months.

The perfect diameter for me is 18-22 inches.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Kingmt

I really enjoy all of your guys input. Having no experience all this info is appreciated.

I have a very small basic mill so it will probably take me longer to saw then it would others. If I can do a $1000 worth in 5 days it should cover my expenses & make me a few extra bucks that would help out plus gain some experience. I shouldn't get hurt to bad on that job if he decides to come back & give me the job.

He is building fence with these boards & the government is paying for it so I'm sure he will make $3 or more on ever board I cut for him.

Since I've already hijacked this thread can I also ask how many cuts I should expect out of a blade? I was thinking with 1x6 boards I should expect about 2000bf out of a blade. Does this sound reasonable?
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

Magicman

No.  Rather than reasonable, I would say exceptional.  Two and sometimes three would be reasonable.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

coppolajc10

Quote from: Cazzhrdwd on November 07, 2015, 09:16:28 PM
I saw for FAS and if I saw 1000 in a day, I'm one tired pup.

Sawed a 26" 16' red oak butt log yesterday, big logs like that can be a huge waste of time, took me half the day to do it but I got 584 ft of the nicest clear lumber. Three boards were 22.5" wide. We'll see what they do in the kiln in a few months.

The perfect diameter for me is 18-22 inches.

I personally don't turn down jobs when someone is bringing logs to me, never know what that customer will bring in the future.  That said, I'm just starting out and might make different decisions if I were milling full time.

Cazz, where are you located?  And what kind a mill are you operating?  Will help me compare apples to apples.  I'm near many Amish mills, $1 /bft would never fly around here, but I'm definitely jealous.  :D  I know one of the Amish mill owners, they recently raised their prices to $120/mbf, used to be $100, they've been there  milling day in and day out since I was a wee boy.  Amish certainly factor into the price and demand equation negatively around here.  If you're milling around here, you better like milling.

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