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I laughed too..

Started by 4x4American, November 02, 2015, 09:20:47 PM

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4x4American

So today I was making a little stand for a new chain grinder at work to be nailed into a wall stud...
When I decided to put in a gusset, I had another thing coming...
so I measured tip to tip, got 14-1/8", figured I'll just cut two 45°s and make sure that the tip is 14-1/8" apart it'll fit perfect!  Nope...doesn't work like that I guess!
So I tried all sorts of different angles and finally I just ended up holding it up next to it and marking lines.  The thing that took me so long was realizing that I was dealing with two different angles.  So what is the proper way to figure out what your angles are to make gussets and stuff like this?




Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

BTW, just noticed that's a Jim Rogers special sawhoss thanks for the video on that!
Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

You were just making "designer" firewood.   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

lol lol  yea I reckon so!


my friend told me to pull a string and get one angle eyeing up a speed square, then to get the other just subtract it from 90.
Boy, back in my day..

Ljohnsaw

Break out the Trig tables! :D  And remember the Indian you learned about in Geometry class, SohCahToa (IIRC).  If you measure two of the three sides you can use the correct formula.  If you want the bottom, left angle of your pictured setup, you would do the division of the opposite side over the adjacent side (Toa) and look up that decimal number in the Tangent tables.  For example, if I assume the vertical side is 12" and the horizontal is 16", the ratio would be .75.  The ArcTangent of .75 is 36.87 degrees.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

4x4American

I understood this stuff when I was in school...but has since been long forgotten!  And to think, my mother is a math teacher!!  Thanks, I forgot about that injun!
Boy, back in my day..

Ianab

I'm sure I learnt how to do that at some point at school, and probably still have a piece of paper to prove it.

But now I tend to lay it out and mark the lines so they fit too.  :D

Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

TimRB

Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 02, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
Break out the Trig tables!

Trig tables?  Sheesh--how old did you say you are?  ;D

Being an engineer, I'd probably do the math, but I think the easiest way would be to make a scale drawing and just measure the angles.

Tim

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: TimRB on November 02, 2015, 11:20:51 PM
Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 02, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
Break out the Trig tables!

Trig tables?  Sheesh--how old did you say you are?  ;D

Being an engineer, I'd probably do the math, but I think the easiest way would be to make a scale drawing and just measure the angles.

Tim

When I was in 6th grade and my dad changed jobs, they gave him a really expensive (about $200) T.I. calculator.  It did +, -, X, / and square root (and nothing else!). :D  When I was learning Geometry in 10th grade, nobody had calculators in school. but by my second year in college, I had a programmable T.I.  (for the youngster here, T.I. is Texas Instruments, a leader in chip technology and calculators, before Casio took over in the late '70s.  Remember, the P.C. wasn't affordable until the early '90s!)

I would just layout a 3-4-5 triangle measurements on the area to brace and the brace, and not care if there was an extra inch or two that wasn't braced on one side or the other.  BTW, a 3-4-5 is  roughly 37° and 53° for the two angles as demonstrated above.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Ianab

I was in high school in the late 70s, and programmable calculators where the IN thing with us Geeks. If I remember right I had a Casio FX502P. For the day, it was pretty awesome, and left my buddies TI's for dead. Not sure what happened to it, but I still have an FX502P programming manual on book shelf if anyone needs one. It's about 8X the size of the actual calculator, but we wrote programs for it to play Tic-Tac-Toe. It was unbeatable, best you could do was draw.

Now my phone has about a million times more computing power
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

4x4American

I keep a ti-83 in my receipt book it goes with me on every job I like that it can convert fractions to decimals and that its screen shows quite a few entries at once.  When I was trying to figure out the angles I needed I had that calculator out...didn't help though! 

So are you telling me that there's a way to do it on that calculator?  I vaguely remember there being some trig functions on it..
Boy, back in my day..

drobertson

there is a way for sure, but would not have the first one have worked, even though it would just be short of the look you wanted?  I'm thinking you wanted it to come flush with the end there? It does look good now,  also I'm pretty sure a pile of us have cut and recut angles when fitting things through the years, me and my FIL had a good laugh bout a month ago, trimming out reverse angles, and a baby changing table, :D :  D
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Dodgy Loner

Quote from: Ianab on November 02, 2015, 10:52:30 PM
I'm sure I learnt how to do that at some point at school, and probably still have a piece of paper to prove it.

But now I tend to lay it out and mark the lines so they fit too.  :D

Me too. It's not a shortcut, that's just what works ;)
"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." -John Ruskin

Any idiot can write a woodworking blog. Here's mine.

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Ianab on November 03, 2015, 01:27:40 AM
I was in high school in the late 70s, and programmable calculators where the IN thing with us Geeks. If I remember right I had a Casio FX502P. For the day, it was pretty awesome, and left my buddies TI's for dead. Not sure what happened to it, but I still have an FX502P programming manual on book shelf if anyone needs one. It's about 8X the size of the actual calculator, but we wrote programs for it to play Tic-Tac-Toe. It was unbeatable, best you could do was draw.

Now my phone has about a million times more computing power

I had a T.I. 84 (still have it).  Really wanted the 85 (it had a card reader so you could save programs).  I programmed a sub search game (kind of like Mine Field), only the sub was moving!  Total geek.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

whiskers

So what is the proper way to figure out what your angles are to make gussets and stuff like this?


An old fellow I knew would have said," It's on the framing square, see if you can find it". Same as laying out stair horse or a bird's mouth.
many irons in the fire.........

TimRB

Quote from: whiskers on November 03, 2015, 11:29:55 AM
So what is the proper way to figure out what your angles are to make gussets and stuff like this?

Using the photo in the OP as a guide:

1) Measure the vertical side--call it V
2) Measure the horizontal side--call it H
3) Call the angle farthest to the left A

Tan(A) = V/H, so
A = Arctan V/H

So you have two of the three angles in the triangle, since you know one of them is the 90.  The third angle is

180 - 90 - A

Tim


Jim_Rogers

Quote from: 4x4American on November 02, 2015, 09:22:24 PM
BTW, just noticed that's a Jim Rogers special sawhoss thanks for the video on that!

You're welcome.
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Jim_Rogers

And oh yea what TimRB said....
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

4x4American


Here is the finished product.  I got it all done today and sharpened 7-8 chains.  It's one of those Timber Tuff ones or whatever from TSC.  ~$150.  I was told that they are basically the same thing as an Oregon 511ax.  Well, they are close, but definitely not the same.  After working out a few bugs, it works well, and I would recommend it to a friend who wants to go the cheaper route.  But if you can afford it, the 511ax is a better grinder.

Boy, back in my day..

sawguy21

 :D I was making a handrail for the garage, measured twice, cut once and no joy. I forgot that the face of an angled cut is longer so the top of the horizontal rail was not flush with it's mate on the stairs. I do know better, my dad was a shop teacher but it's been a long time. My story and I'm sticking to it.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Brian_Weekley

Quote from: ljohnsaw on November 02, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
Break out the Trig tables! :D  And remember the Indian you learned about in Geometry class, SohCahToa (IIRC). 

I learned it as "Oscar Had A Heap Of Apples" (for Sin, Cos, and Tan).  Still use that phrase all the time! :P
e aho laula

4x4American

 :D :D   I cut it twice and it's still too short!
Boy, back in my day..

GAB

Quote from: 4x4American on November 03, 2015, 09:18:29 PM
:D :D   I cut it twice and it's still too short!

You need to accent the positive - only at one end.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

 :D  I have never heard it put that way before.  (new old saying)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

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