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Buying and storing cedar logs

Started by fenris, November 01, 2015, 01:01:47 AM

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fenris

I'm buying a few cedar logs from my neighbor in Tennessee. I'm paying around $0.10 per board foot and having him cut them 5 foot long. The diameters will vary between 12 and 18 inches. I'm using this Doyles scale equation: BF= (Small Diam. - 4)*(Small Diam. - 4)*length/16 each 5 foot long 12 inch diameter log will have 20 Bf if I'm correct.

I plan to store them under a tarp on blocks until i get around to milling them

Any opinions on this? I plan on making a few small chests are tables.


fenris

I set out to buy some logs last week. I decided on cedar because me and my uncle already build with it but usually buy our planks from mills. I eventually found out that a neighbor(mentioned in my other post) would sell me some logs at $0.10 per BF. This seems like a really good price assuming the logs are of millable quality.

I had an interesting encounter with another landowner who had logs for sale and I wanted to get some input from you guys about whether or not my approach was reasonable. The mills around here are paying $0.40 per bf delivered to their mill and selling milled and dried planks for $1.25 per BF. So my guess is that a good buying price for me to be picking up pre-cut logs on site would be around $0.20-$0.30.

This seller didn't want to jump right in and offer a price, he asked a lot of questions, refused to offer a price,  and I eventually offered him $0.15 per bf. The seller's counter offer was $1.25 per BF which as I mentioned above happens to be the price I have been buying kiln dried cedar planks at.

The guy insisted that his price was the going rate in our area and that he'd been selling logs for months at that rate. I was frank about his price being unreasonable and put it into context by explaining the mill prices I was familiar with and the guy cut contact with me.  I'm not sure if this guy was misinformed or just greedy. I occasionally buy materials from people this way and this is a problem I've encountered a lot. Many people seem to be grossly overpricing their material and are rude or even hostile.

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

You can use the Forum tool box (red box bottom left column) to determine the Doyle scale, as well as the other two. It gives you 20 bdft for that size log too.
As long as your neighbor is willing to sell at that price on that scale, you should be good to go.
Expect you will get a lot more bd ft. than that 20 from those logs that size.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

beenthere

Just pass them by, and let them be.

Buy from the  10 cent neighbor.  Sounds like he wants to work for little to nothing.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

drobertson

The milling quality is going to be the catch, at .10 a bdft I would be thinking these are small and most likely tapered and limy,  and has the sound as though you might be doing the liming, if not I would jump all over this price,  .45 to .50 is more likely what they would bring at mills around here.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

drobertson

Well I just posted on your other thread, so it seems that these are quite large, I would jump on it,  not sure you need to tarp them unless you just want to keep the snow off. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

fenris

Thanks guys. I wasn't sure about the tarp.

fenris

What does limy mean? I'm learning as I go regarding the milling process. I'm expecting to make to few regretful decisions as I learn.

So if you were to pick up some logs from a landowner, would you expect to pay mill rates for their logs? I've been looking at it as though I'm saving them a haul and that maybe the mills wont deal on a small scale like this.

I'll take some pictures once I pick these up.

drobertson

only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Cedarman

Standing cedar is worth about 1/4 to 1/3 of cedar delivered to the mill.  Our price delivered to the mill cedar is $.45 for 5" up to 9" and $.50 for 10" and up.  Logs are measured on the cedar scale.  When people come by the mill and want to buy logs, then I will sell them for $1.00 to $1.25 and up depending on the logs.   It takes time to sort piles of logs to get the ones people want.  Have a half trailer load of logs heading to NC for porch posts.  12" x 16', pressure washed for $1.50 per foot.
If the fellow wants $1.25 for all the logs on the landing, then yup, that is way too high.
Most lumber is going retail for $1.50 to $2.50 for quality boards.
Wholesale is less.
Last thursday a 1000 tons of standing cedar sold at $33.00 per ton.  Each truck load to be weighed and payment based on how much comes off tract.  Cedar is bringing $85 to $100 per ton tree length and up to $125 / ton bucked in 8' lengths 5" and up.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Cedarman

Doyle scale is seldom used to measure cedar.  The Doyle scale is used for cedar 17" and up though.  Doyle is not meant to give actual scale on small logs. 
Keep logs off ground, but do not need to be covered.  2 years is about max time before sapwood begins to deteriorate.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Chuck White

I think there is also a Cedar Scale.   :P
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Percy

Up here in northern B.C. cedar prices have gone through the roof as well. We do the cubic meter thing up here. About a year ago prices started to rise and have been rising quick the last few months to the point that lumber prices seem to be slow to catch up with it(lumber broker games). In a year prices for utility(worst grade has gon from 35.00 a cubic meter to around 85.00 The oversized large sweethearts that give lots of clear have gone from around 190.00 to 4-500.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

beenthere

Percy, I'd be guessing that the cedar in Tennessee is Eastern red cedar, not the BC species you may be used to. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Percy

Quote from: beenthere on November 01, 2015, 06:26:14 PM
Percy, I'd be guessing that the cedar in Tennessee is Eastern red cedar, not the BC species you may be used to. ;)
Ya, ours is western red cedar...makes sense. But they share many of the same properties(decay resistance and always beautiful) and I would think the market prices follow each other...to a degree or two....
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Magicman

This ERC has been "stored" since 2002.


 
All of the sapwood has rotted but the heartwood is still solid.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

fenris


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