Stihl ms230 won't start after standing a few days

[jetblackstar]

I've got a still ms230 that my late dad had from new.
Ever since Ive used it I've had trouble starting it when its been in the shed.
Its a great saw when it runs and I refuse to give up on it as I feel it's me doing something wrong.

What happens is it fires after the third stroke with full choke the switch to half and get it to start on three or so pulls, it immediately begins to run weak and full throttle sounds hindered and it will slowly get worse until it stalls and won't start again.
If I let it stand, or get the plug out and air it. (In case i flooded it) Still won't fire. Not even a kick. Now I usually detect a bit of fresh black soot on the plug and if I clean out the cilinder via the plug socket with some meths and a tissue and a stick I will get an amount of black soot out.

If I sand back the plug and clean as described above it will usually  fire again but had the same weakening problem. Often if I repeat this enough it will fire, go full speed and then work reliably for the day. Sometimes I've gone as far as striping back the exhaust and taking out the carborettor (which is clean and working fine as far as I know). Before it runs properly. Fuel is flowing fine from the tank into the carb.
I've also tried running it up on pure petrol just to clear it out (on a suggestion of a friend), it helps speed things up sometimes.

Sometimes the only way to solve it is a new spark plug. But I've chewed through 5-6  plugs in one winter for how few hours it runs (perhaps ten to fifteen full days total in one winter). The new plug will work that time, but leave it five days and it will be causing problems again.

I've tried fresh fuel so many times. Fresh from the pump it still happens. I've got the better quality stihl 2 stroke oil (asked the shop for the best recommended). I've got rid of an old petrol can in case there was rubbish in it and now only mix up 1ltr in a clear bottle so I can see there is no crud in it and know it's fresh.
I mix 50-1, I've tried a bit less oil but no difference.

We've also got a stihl km90 kombi tool for hedge cutting and it had no issues with the fuel or otherwise.

First time I had this happen I took it to a repair guy who replaced the diafram and plug and it ran ok for a couple of separate days before it did it again.
Different guy just changed the spark plug got it to run and have it back to me.

I've replaced the air inlet filter as it has some tiny tears in it. I Thought sawdust could be getting in.

I've now tried emptying the tank before I store it and running it until it stalls (to use up all fuel in pipes, amazed how long it runs). This seems to help in that it now fires first, runs weak and stalls and then cleaning the plug quickly once all allow it to fire and run properly. A bit shorter ritual than before.
But this is still a lot of faff for a saw that's only been stood five days.

I've asked everyone I know and most pros just change the sparkplug it runs for them and they hand it back to me. Which is no help a week later.

Is it possible the carb settings are wrong and I'm killing plugs? Is it the cold start? (Were in the uk, so not Canadian cold winters)
Am I using too cheap plugs?
Im happy to strip and replace parts myself if there is anything not too expensive someone suggests as a possible suspect.

Any ideas or thoughts however silly would be really appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[limbwood]

Could be needle is not seating in carb and letting to much gas in and flooding it.

[Kingmt]

Plugs aren't that easy to kill. Pictures of the plug might help. Look at the piston while the carb is off to see if you see any marks on the piston. When your cleaning the plug usually just wiping it off with a rag is enough. From what your saying it sounds like flooding. I haven't looked at the manual for your saw but it may be adjustable. So look on the side to see if you have two holes one marked with a L & the other a H. Good luck.

[dougand3]

Another vote for flooding...needle, seat. It be really simple to change the whole carb. AfterMarket MS230 carbs are cheap.

[joe_indi]

With the spark removed, open the fuel cap, blow into the tank, close it up. With switch in Off, pull starter a couple of times. Leave the saw to rest for 10 minutes.
Turn it upside down on a bit of paper. Hold throttle wide open and pull the starter a few times.
If fuel sprays the paper through the plug hole or carb, you have a flooding issue.
You will need to set this right first.
Next disconnect the black wire from the ignition coil.
Make sure the carb screws are turned out maximum if you have limiter caps or one turn out if there are no limiter caps. And try it and let us know what happens.
Any friend who tells you to run the saw without oil in the fuel does not know what would happen to the insides of the engine.

[jetblackstar]

Thanks to everyone who's replied, such a relief to have some help\advice.

It does have an H and L setting hole\screw I've adjusted them as the manuals says before, when I first had trouble, but may have got it wrong. I will follow it again and see what it does. (Manual https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/InstructionManuals/STIHL-MS-210-230-250-Instruction-Manual.pdf&ved=0CB4QFjAAahUKEwjA_eHFuePIAhUEWxQKHV_pD5M&usg=AFQjCNH5IfwDb-TVsiLIQB4PppqsFh3Ggg&sig2=2kAfsDicNCg-XF5JqReWig)

It had an H, L and a LA (for idol speed).

Any thoughts OK which way to adjust if it is flooding? (H/L +- etc) or just set it to the manuals default?

I'll try Indi_Joe s test, see if it sprays. Well be a day or so before I have the time to try it though.

Is flooding consistent with running on once I get it going? It will happily stop and start multiple times when I'm coppicing. I suppose it's warm then is the main difference.

Thinking about it, my repeated cleaning could just be airing the chamber until I've warmed it up enough. Hmm.

Looking up the price of a replacement carb that may not be a bad plan if the needle has gone. Should be easy as I've had it off a couple of times before.

I've also noticed from reading lots of older posts on this forum that I've not replaced the little felt fuel filter yet so I will do that anyway.
I'll also try and get a photo of the plug.

Lots to try, I'll post back soon what ever happens.

Thanks so much. I'm enjoying learning so much about two stroke engines. Working on this saw had already helped me fix a water pump and strimmer.

[jetblackstar]

Silly question; when you say blow into the fuel tank you mean by breath or compressed air ? :)

Also the friend who made the pure fuel suggestion meant it only to clean it out, not to run. (Get it to fire, run, stop and switch it out for 2stroke mix) But he was an old dairy farmer who was surrounded by various old beaten up equipment. It's hard to tell if it's because there great at keeping kit alive, or great at wearing it out :) Our place had a similar feel.

But I won't do this again.

Cheers!

[joe_indi]

....when you say blow into the fuel tank you mean by breath or compressed air ?

Just breathe into the fuel tank that is all. The idea is to get some 'fuel-lean' air into the tank. Close it and shake the saw, the tank gets a little pressure, just enough to force through a leaking / wrongly set/ sticking inlet needle.
BTW, you dont need to replace the whole carb when you have a faulty needle.
Try this test and post the results so that we can move to the next thing to do.

[Kingmt]

I've also tried running it up on pure petrol just to clear it out (on a suggestion of a friend), it helps speed things up sometimes.

I thought you meant no ethanol. Never run one without oil in it.

Since you say you have already moved the carb adjustments I'd suggest turning it back to the factory settings.

[deerslayer]

I had a saw doing similar to what yours is and finally just switched carbs with another saw and the problem went away. I'd try a new carb.

[jetblackstar]

OK test run. No spray coming out of the spark plug socket.
Popped the fuel cap off after and got a nice pop showing it had pressurised nicely too.

[jetblackstar]

Also tried to post picture of the spark plug but the forum complained about the file type :(
I'll try uploading it elsewhere.

Also curiously I tried to run it up after the test and it fired and ran OK (mild hesitation on full throttle but picked up quickly.)
Which gives me hope. If a little confused.

Suppose that still points to the carb being temperamental. I'm leaning towards a replacement. But I've not reset the carb settings yet.
But I'm open to more diagnostics.

[beenthere]

jbs
Check the Index page near the bottom to find the "how to post pics" thread. Have your file in .jpg format and should be good to go. You need to make an album in your gallery. Ask if something doesn't make sense... not hard to do.

[joe_indi]

Two possibilities if the carb is not flooding.
1. You have something moving around in the carb that needs to be flushed out. You could either dismantle the carb, soak it in dish cleaning soap and clean it up with water and dry it out, or choose the easy way which has only 10% chances of success. Mix a 50:50 batch of coconut oil and nitro cellulose thinner and add about 20ml of the mixture per liter of fuel mix. You will get smoke and some unpleasant smelly smoke but it is to the good. If you are lucky the carb will clean itself out.
2. Your H and/or L screws have been turned beyond the limit of the limiter caps. You will need to prise out the limiter caps before you could even check, but it must be done. I use a brass screw and a plier for this. File off the tip of the screw. Screw it into the center of the limiter cap and use the pliers for pulling out the whole thing, alternating between both caps (2 screws would make the job easier.)
Once you have the caps off take out both screws, spray some carb cleaner through the holes and screw the screws int gently to their stops. Turn them both out 1 1/2 turns (yes 1 1/2 turns I know the book says 1 turn).
Start up and now fine tune to the best setting you find,
Before all that, replace the filter in the fuel tank.
Check if the impulse line is still connected to its nipple on the tank housing.
If it is off its nipple or loose that too could cause erratic running.

[jetblackstar]

Sorry its taken so long to reply to this guys.

Its taken til the Christmas holidays for me to have had enough time to try all the suggestions.
But come evening and I really wanted to post back to say a MASSIVE THANK YOU! to you all.
And to leave a record for any googlers who have similar issues.

In the end I've gone for a double approach. I've bought a £10 replacement carberator to try out, its not Sthil original but its all I could find. Is it worth sourcing an official Stihl one from a local dealer? Is there an appreciable quality difference.

Which obviously leaves me with the original one to play with and fix if I can.
I will be cleaning it out and checking for jams. The limiters could be an issue, though that sounds more "fun" to strip down. Thanks for the excellent guide.

I only just got time to switch it out today.
To my great pleasure with a new plug in for luck and a good clean out also for luck it fired straight into action. Needed some H/L and throttle idol tweaks to get it running right and idling right but it now runs full pelt beautifully, idols great and starts every time.
:D
I flooded it once while adjusting the settings and when I pulled the plug out it was still clean and shiny unlike before where 2 minutes running was making it go a dull grey. I do think it was possibly affecting them. I'm going to try an pre carb change plug out of interest at some point.

But I'm pleased as punch. So pleased that when I went out immediately to lop up a wind fallen hazel stool I merrily nipped through a water line for the sheeps water trough.  : Happy enough that I didn't really mind and just fixed it with no swearing, knowing I had a working saw again. lol. 4 years of fighting my departed fathers chainsaw finally fixed and proven right it could be done. And I've learnt a hell of a lot along the way and developed a new hobby of stripping them. Few other oldies in the shed I may look into.

So Merry Christmas to you all!
:new_year:
And thanks again.

[jetblackstar]

Pictures I originally took of the plugs (now Ive got the hang of the Forum Pic Galleries system), again now its just for historical records and other readers. But I hate incomplete solved forum threads.
I hope history thanks me lol.

It should be noted this is after a single job that took me about an hour and a bit and the plug was brand new before that.

Bad carb apparently can do that.

[limbwood]

How is the screen in muffler, is it pluged with soot?