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Reason Not to Go with Three Phase Power ??

Started by ronwood, September 30, 2004, 01:34:32 PM

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Bibbyman

Quote from: ronwood on June 27, 2005, 12:13:57 PM


Price of the electric mills that I seen on sawmill exchange looks good.


One reason the prices of used electric mills looks so good is that a new E25 Super costs 3-4 thousand less than the base diesel engine.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Sawyerfortyish

I asked about 3 phase 5yrs ago when I put up a new mill building. They told me that it would cost 12,000  :o to run it to my mill and also a 500.00 usage fee would apply weather I used the 3 phase or not >:(. Well I got 3 phase 8). But not from the power company. For 6000.00 I bought a gen set and it don,t burn  500.00 of fuel per month  :)

mometal77

Me being lucky where i live down the road canyon industries makes hydro electric parts pelton wheels ect and they use ac motors single phase and just convert it over to three phase with a simple switch and a pull start on the ac fan interesting set up.  Hey thanks Trim for the information.  Ebay huh check out search on Mobile dimension three phase search.
bob
Too many Assholes... not enough bullets..."I might have become a millionaire, but I chose to become a tramp!

ronwood

Update !

Three phase power has been for about 4 months. 240 Volt 200 amp service runs me around $35.00 per month. No charges for setting the pole and connecting up to the system.  I think I was real lucky on getting it done for such little cost.

Now all  I need to find some used woodworking tools. Anyone know much a bout Oliver table saws. Have a line on one built in 1949.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Gilman

I'd jump at the chance.  $2,600 for them to run 3 wires across the street for me ~ 100'.  $2600 amortized into my minimum monthly payments would go a long ways.  3 phase motors are cheaper, 3 phase equipment is cheaper, wiring is cheaper, more starting torque...
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

fstedy

Got 3 phase installed when I had my machine shop business don't use it extensively now but its nice to have it opens a lot of opportunities for buying nicely priced equipment. Demand was 1.9 KW last month and total bill was $23.92 here in NJ. Those larger motors really start fast with that one hot phase ( 208 volts ) hooked up and the instant reverse is a nice fearure. The phase converters are fine to use if you aren't using much power and the hookup costs are prohibitive for your installation. But you loose a lot of efficency using them compared to straight 3 phase power thats why all of the larger factories use it.. 
Timberking B-20   Retired and enjoying every minute of it.
Former occupations Electrical Lineman, Airline Pilot, Owner operator of Machine Shop, Slot Machine Technician and Sawmill Operator.
I know its a long story!!!

Sawyerfortyish

They wanted 12000.00 to run 3 phase into my mill plus I had a minimum usage of 400.00 per month. I bought a gen set for 6000.00 and I don't burn near half that 400 in fuel. Most heavy duty wood working machines are all 3 phase I also had to put in a transformer some of my machines were 220  3 phase instead of 460-480  3 phase. You might want to look at that oliver saw moter to see what it is. Something that old may be 220  3 phase.

Norm

Glad to hear you got the 3 phase hooked up Ron, won't be anytime and you'll be junking the motor on the mizer and getting a nice quiet reliable E-25.

JimBuis

Oliver table saws?  They are legendary.  Bigtime industrial heavy-duty all the way.  Go for it.  Assuming the price is right.
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

ronwood

Norm_F

I might do that some day. Since my mill is the standard LT40 I not sure that I can put a E25 on the saw.  Might be to heavy for the mountings. Will need to check again with Woodmizer.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Ironwood

Ronwood,
 
  I wouldn't hesitate on any Oliver machines. I ............well lets just say I have used and moved my fair share of heavy American iron and am quite knowlegable on it so PM me if you have questions/ price checking etc....



                      Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Bibbyman

Quote from: ronwood on December 07, 2005, 09:17:01 AM
Norm_F

I might do that some day. Since my mill is the standard LT40 I not sure that I can put a E25 on the saw.  Might be to heavy for the mountings. Will need to check again with Woodmizer.

Ron

A lot of engine driven Wood-Mizers have been converted to electric - and the other way around.  Wood-Mizer could probably help you with all you need for a conversion.  I wouldn't think the 25hp motor would be too heavy for the standard LT40.  In older times,  Wood-Mizer put 15hp motors on their electric models. 
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

highpockets

ron did you get the three phase. I have had it for fifteen years in my machine shop. Our co-op gave me a rate based on a farm shop that is $0.02 cheaper than residential.  There is no demand. My bill runs about $40.00 
Louisiana Country boy
homemade mill, 20 h.p. Honda & 4 h.p. for hydraulics.  8 hydraulic circuits, loads, clamps, rotates, etc.

IMERC


the electricity itself cost more per KW in 3P than 1P. often lots more.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

ronwood

IMERC

The cost of the 3 phase for small business was the same cost as for single phase at least with my electric company. Regular business is a differnet story.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

IMERC

Here it's more than double.

Some advantages to 3P is that the mechancicals for installation cost less. ie. motors are generally cheaper and wire gauges are smaller.
for some odd reason switches cost less but the breaker $$$ will make ya cringe.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

GregS

Keep in mind building a rotary phase converter is not hard as Reid mentioned.  I built one for next to nothing with a 15hp motor and some capacitors.  Instructions for this are all over the net.

Greg S

farmerdoug

Quote from: Reid Crosby on December 18, 2005, 03:56:02 PM
Ronwood,
 
  I wouldn't hesitate on any Oliver machines. I ............well lets just say I have used and moved my fair share of heavy American iron and am quite knowlegable on it so PM me if you have questions/ price checking etc....



                      Reid

Reid,

Did you ever move Moak woodworking machines?  I worked as a contractor at their machine shop and foundry one year.  They made some impressive machines.  They are closed now but they produced their machines from before WWII.  I still see them listed on old military ships listed for scraping.

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

Ironwood

Farmerdog,

  You bet. Moak stuff is all over the place and high quality as well. Several big Bandsaws come to mind as do many shapers and jointers. I see the stuff used and you are right it is well made. Quality similar to Oliver but with out a CULT following. I generally buy/ upgrade to Oliver due to the resale for my family when I eventually depart the world. It will be easy to liquidate and besides I love it. Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

farmerdoug

Reid,  They made excellent machines until they closed in the 90's.  I use to enjoy watching the mill shop guys mill the cast parts for the machines.  I even helped crate a few of the bandmills they shipped out too.  To bad their quality did not carry over into their business.  They bought an old salt mine near here and the MDNR caught them dumping their waste casting sand down the shaft one day.  Once the MDNR was done with them the business was gone. :(

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

farmerdoug

Reid, Also worth noting(at least to me that is) if you see an machine of theirs that the serial number indicates that it was made after 1986 then it probably has cast iron from scrap we sold them or contracted with them to process into smaller peices to fit their electric arc furnances.  We handled 100's of tons of cast iron and steel scrap for them until they closed for good.

Farmerdoug
Doug
Truck Farmer/Greenhouse grower
2001 LT40HDD42 Super with Command Control and AccuSet, 42 hp Kubota diesel
Fargo, MI

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