2009 LT40 manual updated to include dual hydraulic pumps.......

DGK · October 20, 2015, 11:46:40 PM

18 months ago I converted my LT 40 Manual w/log loader to a hydraulic mill using factory parts and doing the frame mod. Anticipating that one day it may grow to be close to a Super, I installed the 3/8" hydraulic lines out from the valve bank. Today, I finished installing the second hydraulic pump as well as changing over two more lines to 3/8 on the log turner. I was short a few fittings to change over the loader lines but that will come by next week. I also added a second contact strip at the far end of the mill. Next on the list will be to order either the 3/4 hp up/down motor as found on the newer mills or bite the bullet and put on the super hydraulics 1 hp up/down motor. Has anyone ever timed the speed of the standard 1/2 hp up/down motor and compared it with the 3/4 and/or 1 hp?

Ga Mtn Man · October 21, 2015, 09:48:48 AM

Nice job planning ahead, you're going to love the additional hydraulics. Do you have any setworks on your mill?

DGK · October 21, 2015, 11:58:27 PM

No set-works on my mill. I saw mainly custom beams and timbers out of large diameter logs so I do not think that set-works would benefit my operation.

customsawyer · October 22, 2015, 03:43:55 AM

My LT70s came with ¾HP motors and I tried the 1HP motor on one of them. The 1HP is a little bit slower than the ¾HP motor. I know it don't sound right but that is the way it worked on my mill. On a 20' mill it might not make much difference but on my mill that cuts 40' timbers most of the time it really showed up.

DGK · October 22, 2015, 10:28:51 AM

Hi Jake,

I take it the motor that you changed was the power feed motor not the up/down motor. Have you heard of anyone changing the pulley sizes on the up/down motor assembly to change the gear ratio for faster speed? I do not have set-works, so it would not affect that system.

Ga Mtn Man · October 22, 2015, 01:32:19 PM

I changed the motor pulley on my 2012 LT40 to the size used on the Super (AK32 x 5/8"). It worked great and was much faster but I had to go back to stock because it screwed up the accuracy of the SimpleSet.

pineywoods · October 22, 2015, 02:26:21 PM

I just changed out the up/down motor on my old 95 lt40 manual mill. The stock motor was SLOW SLOW. I mostly saw through and through, no off bearing, that requires a LOT of head up/down time. There's not much room for a physically larger motor, but I found a starter motor off a large riding lawnmower that fit in the available space. Had to modify the wiring so it would reverse. Went with a 25% larger pulley, so far so good. It's bunches faster and I'm tickled with it.

re:: dual hydraulic pumps. You will now have twice as much trouble with pumps. ;D There's a gotcha that will leave you scratching your head if you don't know about it with dual pumps. If one of the pumps quits, the other will pump oil backward through the dead pump and overflow the reservoir out the vent.

Kbeitz · October 22, 2015, 05:42:03 PM

Quote from: pineywoods on October 22, 2015, 02:26:21 PM
I just changed out the up/down motor on my old 95 lt40 manual mill. The stock motor was SLOW SLOW. I mostly saw through and through, no off bearing, that requires a LOT of head up/down time. There's not much room for a physically larger motor, but I found a starter motor off a large riding lawnmower that fit in the available space. Had to modify the wiring so it would reverse. Went with a 25% larger pulley, so far so good. It's bunches faster and I'm tickled with it.

re:: dual hydraulic pumps. You will now have twice as much trouble with pumps. ;D There's a gotcha that will leave you scratching your head if you don't know about it with dual pumps. If one of the pumps quits, the other will pump oil backward through the dead pump and overflow the reservoir out the vent.

Next time check out E-bay for winch motor.

Ga Mtn Man · October 22, 2015, 06:23:01 PM

Quote from: pineywoods on October 22, 2015, 02:26:21 PMre:: dual hydraulic pumps. You will now have twice as much trouble with pumps. ;D There's a gotcha that will leave you scratching your head if you don't know about it with dual pumps. If one of the pumps quits, the other will pump oil backward through the dead pump and overflow the reservoir out the vent.

piney- When I added the second pump I installed a check valve in each to prevent that from happening. It seems to work fine and I can run on one pump or two. Is there any reason this isn't a good idea?

pineywoods · October 22, 2015, 07:24:22 PM

Check valves good idea.

I do a fair amount of wrenching on other sawyers mills as well as my own. You'd be surprised at the guys who don't know about a dead pump filling up the hydraulics box with oil. :(

DGK · October 22, 2015, 11:38:19 PM

Pineywoods,

Thanks for the heads up on the the dual pump potential issues. I still need to check the size of the fittings on the old pump to see if they are 3/8's. My new pumps' reservoir is filling up quicker. There is a difference in the model number and design of the 2 pumps. The old one has the return into the pump case and the other direct into the reservoir. I did change my up/down motor pulley today. It went from 2-3/16" up to a 3". The speed for the head travel of 24" was 26 seconds up/ 20 down and is now 20 seconds up 15 down. A bit of an improvement.

DGK · October 22, 2015, 11:44:34 PM

One other thing I have noticed with the 2 pumps while testing was that I was able to draw down the battery very quickly. Since my battery is still the original, I will change that before I consider changing to a more powerful alternator.

Bandmill Bandit · October 22, 2015, 11:59:31 PM

Quote from: DGK on October 22, 2015, 11:44:34 PM
One other thing I have noticed with the 2 pumps while testing was that I was able to draw down the battery very quickly. Since my battery is still the original, I will change that before I consider changing to a more powerful alternator.

I run an extra 108 amp alternator with an extra large tractor battery sitting on the ground and connected to the mill with 2-O boster cable using 250amp forklift quick connectors so that hydraulics are ALWAYS live. I wouldn't run with out my little generator and extra battery even on a new LT50 mill.

The extra Electric capacity is well worth it in over all wear and tear reduction on the electric motors.

Magicman · October 23, 2015, 09:31:53 AM

Quote from: pineywoods on October 22, 2015, 07:24:22 PMYou'd be surprised at the guys who don't know about a dead pump filling up the hydraulics box with oil.

If a hydraulic pump motor dies, replacing the vent with a plug will allow you to finish the sawing job with one pump. ;)

DGK · October 24, 2015, 03:21:58 PM

I made a call to Wood-mizer and they suggested the same fix as Magicman in the event that a pump goes out. Since having 2 vented reservoirs that are connected, I plugged the one that is filling up faster. Speaking with a local hydraulic shop, they commented that it would be a good solution. Regarding having adequate power for both pumps with the stock 105 amp alternator, I checked the voltage when operating the pumps. It drops down to about 10.5 volts. I don't see an issue with that if I am not using the hydraulics heavily. However, I think that I will install the 140 amp alternator as found on a super to avoid being so hard on the battery.

Magicman · October 24, 2015, 05:04:45 PM

Yes on the alternator plus a group 31 battery. You do not want to operate the pump on low voltage. Low voltage means high amperage which will fry the pump motor. :-\

Bandmill Bandit · October 24, 2015, 05:46:59 PM

DGK I have found that you cant get a big enough battery in the LT40 box to carry 12 volts with 2 pumps.
You get down to 10 volts and brushes tend to burn up too fast. Not sure what you used for cable but my pumps are wired with 2 OO welding cable and I wired mine so my pumps are alway live with my extra generator the mill has 220 amps of charge capacity and 2450 crank amps when the head is on the copper bar. I increased wire size to ALL my electric motors as well and I use di-electric grease on all the connections too.

After I did the mods my son redid load tests on all the motors and the only one that now draws down to 12 volts is the feed motor. I have about 1500 hours on my mill and I have not changed a set of brushes yet AND my last alternator rebuild/install has over 800 hours on it. Burned up 3 of them in the first 750 hours. Most of the info is in the useful mods thread.

Grounding is critical. alternator to frame and frame to battery. I drive a short ground rod into the dirt when I am set up at home and on jobs that last a day or more.

Dave Shepard · October 24, 2015, 07:06:51 PM

BB, is the standard 40 battery box smaller than the Super box?

Bandmill Bandit · October 24, 2015, 07:30:37 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on October 24, 2015, 07:06:51 PM
BB, is the standard 40 battery box smaller than the Super box?

I dont know Dave. Would have to measure. I think with the 145 amp alternator instead of the 105 the battery might not be as much of a factor BUT once you have run a mill the way I run mine you will notice a lot of things just plain work better because electrical capacity just isn't and issue any place in the system anymore.

Ga Mtn Man · October 24, 2015, 11:08:32 PM

Quote from: Dave Shepard on October 24, 2015, 07:06:51 PM
BB, is the standard 40 battery box smaller than the Super box?

Yes it is.

DGK · October 25, 2015, 12:03:11 AM

Thanks BB, what do you think of just putting on a high output (200 amp) CS 144 on the mill?

DGK · October 25, 2015, 01:15:04 AM

BB disregard, my last question. I found a link to a Wood-mizer battery & alternator document. I did not realize that the hydraulic pumps run only off the battery when actuated even with the engine running and the alternator putting out its amps. Now it makes sense to me why you need the larger battery. I was initially planning to run an external hydraulic power pack but preferred the idea of having the pumps self-contained in the mill

slider · October 25, 2015, 08:39:20 AM

DGKs i think the last battery i put in my lt-70 was rated at 1200 cold cranking amps.That helped but what helped the most was changing to a better grade cable end with a 5/16 stud.I bought the mill when it was one year old so i don't know if the cables were altered or it was that way from the factory.I soldered heavy duty copper cable ends onto the cables.This helped quiet a bit for me.The hydraulics were faster and the cat cranked much faster.good luck on your project.al

Bandmill Bandit · October 25, 2015, 10:20:58 PM

Quote from: DGK on October 25, 2015, 01:15:04 AM
BB disregard, my last question. I found a link to a Wood-mizer battery & alternator document. I did not realize that the hydraulic pumps run only off the battery when actuated even with the engine running and the alternator putting out its amps. Now it makes sense to me why you need the larger battery. I was initially planning to run an external hydraulic power pack but preferred the idea of having the pumps self-contained in the mill

I looked at the exact same thing for the same reasons. Thats why I opted for the OEM hydraulic set up AND then added the extra generator and direct connection to the pump solenoids in the hydraulic box with 2 OO welding cable.

I had looked at doing the 200 AMP high out put alternator as well but the cost compared to my genset build was a lot more money since I had the components to build the genset in my shed. I use that little genset A LOT. I have a 2000 watt inverter that I use on it when camping and in the winter time that ting stays on the back of my pickup. i have put over 700 hrs on mill since i did those upgrades but the little Genset has just of 1000 hours on it now. I am pretty sure the genset has reduced alternator operating temp on the mill a fair bit as well.

Slider I have done the same through out my mill as well on ALL cabling and I went to Brass souldered connectors.

Another critical issue is grounding. There is a Kolher service bulletin that I posted in one of the threads on the forum . That upgrade alone made a major difference in alternator and over all electrical performance.

Heres a pic of that upgrade as per Kohler bulletin. I also used di-electric grease on the conection.

DGK · October 25, 2015, 10:27:26 PM

Hi BB,

Today, I installed the original small hydraulic box to function as an external battery holder close to the pumps. The other thing that I managed to prep, was to remove a water pump from a Honda GX160 engine. I'll use this to combine with an alternator to provide external power. When adding the second hydraulic strip, I used 1/0 cable. The new strip went at the head end and had two 1/0 cables to run to the solenoids. All connections to the strips have been soldered.