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Author Topic: 20 Open side container kiln  (Read 3620 times)

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Offline Geeg

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20 Open side container kiln
« on: October 20, 2015, 03:19:36 am »
Anyone using a 20 Open side container as a kiln?. The reason that I like this type is that you don't need a track system to load and unload. You might be able to get 1800-1900bf per load which is a good size for me and if I need more, just build another unit?

Was thinking of spray foam the underside and 2" amvic foil foam sealed interior and sealed floor and add on Nyle 200M

Any thoughts out there?

Here is a pic of one, it opens the full width.

 
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2015, 08:45:45 pm »
Wow, didn't know there was such a beast!  And it opens on the end as well.  Must be pretty pricey, though.  If I were to make a kiln, I think I'd go for that design of a container for the reasons you mentioned.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Glenn1

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2015, 08:55:31 pm »
Since it's maximum width is 20', what is the opening of the doors.  Looks like you can only put one load of 8'-10' boards thru the doors.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Otherwise, It looks very practical.
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2015, 10:44:10 pm »
Just remember that the shipping container is made of Corten or "weathering" steel, and is intentionally designed to passivate or rust in a saltwater or otherwise corrosive environment.  Many containers are only designed for a 5 year service life, which is a long time for a shipping container, but a short time for a kiln.  Not saying they won't last longer, but in the extremely corrosive environment of a kiln, it should be a consideration.  So, according to the guys at Nyle, as well as several othe posts on this forum, unless the surface is extremely well protected, it will rust out in a few years.  It was a major consideration for me, so I went with a reefer, made of stainless steel and aluminum. 
Here is a reply to a topic by Don Lewis, Production/Operations Manager of Nyle
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,6677.msg93201.html#msg93201
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 11:05:18 pm »
Since it's maximum width is 20', what is the opening of the doors.  Looks like you can only put one load of 8'-10' boards thru the doors.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Otherwise, It looks very practical.

Look at it again.  The little panels are actually doors that the big doors are attached to.  It opens up full width.

Just remember that the shipping container is made of Corten or "weathering" steel, and is intentionally designed to passivate or rust in a saltwater or otherwise corrosive environment.  Many containers are only designed for a 5 year service life, which is a long time for a shipping container, but a short time for a kiln.  Not saying they won't last longer, but in the extremely corrosive environment of a kiln, it should be a consideration.  So, according to the guys at Nyle, as well as several othe posts on this forum, unless the surface is extremely well protected, it will rust out in a few years.  It was a major consideration for me, so I went with a reefer, made of stainless steel and aluminum. 
Here is a reply to a topic by Don Lewis, Production/Operations Manager of Nyle
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,6677.msg93201.html#msg93201

Would it work to spray the interior with a good epoxy paint (like pool paint) before adding insulation and finishing the interior?
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline Geeg

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2015, 11:27:33 pm »
Since it's maximum width is 20', what is the opening of the doors.  Looks like you can only put one load of 8'-10' boards thru the doors.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Otherwise, It looks very practical.

Hi Glenn, here is the door opening dimensions width 18'8" and height is  7'1" and another pic of a unit.

 

Just remember that the shipping container is made of Corten or "weathering" steel, and is intentionally designed to passivate or rust in a saltwater or otherwise corrosive environment.  Many containers are only designed for a 5 year service life, which is a long time for a shipping container, but a short time for a kiln.  Not saying they won't last longer, but in the extremely corrosive environment of a kiln, it should be a consideration.  So, according to the guys at Nyle, as well as several othe posts on this forum, unless the surface is extremely well protected, it will rust out in a few years.  It was a major consideration for me, so I went with a reefer, made of stainless steel and aluminum. 
Here is a reply to a topic by Don Lewis, Production/Operations Manager of Nyle
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,6677.msg93201.html#msg93201

Good info YellowHammer and I may need to alter my plan a little. Where there is a will, there is a way! (old sayin)
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

Offline Geeg

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2015, 11:38:16 pm »
YellowHammer,

It was your build that really got me to thinking about building a kiln from one of these units. I had plans on building a unit from scratch but after seeing yours I decided to go this route. I just need to ironing the kinks out  ;D

Oh and BTW, I was really impressed with your build, well done!

Geeg
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Offline Geeg

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2015, 03:08:34 am »
Not sure if anyone has heard of this but did some research and found that RUST GRIP may be the answer, can even spray it on the wood floor to protect.  http://www.spicoatings.com/products_solutions/rust_grip
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2015, 04:08:46 am »
Marine spec paint system... much red oxide followed by marine 2 pack epoxy... stops ships rusting.

I've been eyeing off the same style of container for the same job. :D
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2015, 07:22:33 am »
Such a paint system works only if there is a corrosive environment on only one side.  So, if you coat the interior, do not coat the exterior.  So, you will have to put the container inside a building.  The reason is that if you get a small hole in the coating when both sides are covered (like when a piece of lumber scrapes it), then moisture will get in but will be unable to get out.  It is called the envelop effect.  Once moisture gets between the two coatings, it will corrode.
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2015, 06:16:00 am »
Such a paint system works only if there is a corrosive environment on only one side.  So, if you coat the interior, do not coat the exterior.  So, you will have to put the container inside a building.  The reason is that if you get a small hole in the coating when both sides are covered (like when a piece of lumber scrapes it), then moisture will get in but will be unable to get out.  It is called the envelop effect.  Once moisture gets between the two coatings, it will corrode.

Respectfully Gene, I think we're on different pages. I'm talking about a paint system similar to that used on work boats - barges, tugs, fishing boats etc. all steel boats eventually die of rust, and they all rust from the inside out because of the difficulty of accessing the interior paint system for repair once in commission. But that takes ( provided a good initial paint job is applied ) 20 years or more.

The kind of system I'm referring too would have an initial epoxy primer onto shot blasted steel, followed by 3 to 4 coats of high build epoxy to a depth of around 16 mil DFT... About 0.016"...followed by a top coat. It's not flaky stuff... It's designed to take being rubbed against wharfs etc.

I'd follow that up with Mascoat DTM or similar mastic type insulation. While I know closed cell foams are the norm with kilns, I'm also aware that closed cell foam is poorly regarded in the commercial marine sector because even though it's "closed cell" it still takes up moisture and leads to rust quicker.

Also to factor in is that being a side loaded kiln I can forklift in using slippers straight onto wood bearers so shouldn't ever really break the paint anyway. My stickers are allways on the same spacing so the bearers can be permanently fixed.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I think that while the broad operating parameters between a kiln and a commercial vessel are different that the research into corrosion prevention in the marine sector far outweighs that put into kiln corrosion control. Maybe it won't work ( and I've never had a problem with sharing my failures) but I feel that if I can trust my life to steel sitting in salt water then I can gamble the cost of a kiln chamber. Worst comes to the worst and it fails I'll just blast it all off and try a more conventional approach.

It's those door seals (on the container sides) that I don't like.
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2015, 05:51:29 pm »
The coating itself is just fine.  I do not discount that.

My concern is the accidental hole.  I believe there is likelihood that it will get a small hole.  Ships have bilge pumps.  You will have hinges, screw holes, etc. that could be an entry way.  You will have a joint between the walls and between the roof and wall.  You have a lintel for the door.  The temperature of the wall will range from below freezing to over 150F and with that range of temperature will come expansion and contraction.  Such movement is likely to open a small hole. 

The hole itself is not much of an issue if the coating is only on one side.  The problem occurs when both inside and outside are coated, so when the moisture gets into the wall, it cannot get out.  Both the interior and exterior will be very humid at times. 

Bob Little of the Univ of TN did an big study on various coatings for kilns.  I do not know how many coatings he used but there were a lot and his work showed this effect indeed.

So, in a kiln we typically include weep holes to drain moisture that accidentally gets in the walls.  This helps some, but deterioration is an issue even with excellent coatings.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2016, 12:17:09 am »
Since it's maximum width is 20', what is the opening of the doors.  Looks like you can only put one load of 8'-10' boards thru the doors.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  Otherwise, It looks very practical.

Hi Glenn, here is the door opening dimensions width 18'8" and height is  7'1" and another pic of a unit.

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Just remember that the shipping container is made of Corten or "weathering" steel, and is intentionally designed to passivate or rust in a saltwater or otherwise corrosive environment.  Many containers are only designed for a 5 year service life, which is a long time for a shipping container, but a short time for a kiln.  Not saying they won't last longer, but in the extremely corrosive environment of a kiln, it should be a consideration.  So, according to the guys at Nyle, as well as several othe posts on this forum, unless the surface is extremely well protected, it will rust out in a few years.  It was a major consideration for me, so I went with a reefer, made of stainless steel and aluminum. 
Here is a reply to a topic by Don Lewis, Production/Operations Manager of Nyle
http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,6677.msg93201.html#msg93201

Good info YellowHammer and I may need to alter my plan a little. Where there is a will, there is a way! (old sayin)

What kind of price did you get on one of those with that side doors.  Best price I got was about $6,000.  I was wondering about a kiln made from a steel container using solar to heat it. 

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 10:36:55 am »


What kind of price did you get on one of those with that side doors.  Best price I got was about $6,000.  I was wondering about a kiln made from a steel container using solar to heat it.

Hi Crazy,

I got basically the same price, quite expensive
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 03:12:46 pm »
Yes but 6k in your dollars is $4.5 in USD.

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2017, 06:11:05 pm »
Container finally arrived. 



Picked up the nyle kiln last week. lots of work to be done.
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2017, 07:28:27 pm »
I didn't know they made those.  Thats pretty awesome.  How do they unload it off the truck?  And is that a company that sells them to individuals? 
Boy, back in my day..

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2017, 07:49:02 pm »
Keep us posted as things progress

Thanks

Buck
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2017, 08:03:31 am »
I didn't know they made those.  Thats pretty awesome.  How do they unload it off the truck?  And is that a company that sells them to individuals?

They used a tilt and slide bed on the truck. You can get these containers from any container company.

Got to work on the fans, sealed the screw heads with silicone. Will hang the unit with 1/2" galvanized bolts.





Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 11:47:17 am »
Like the open side, and still has double doors on one end?

I have thought of using an outdoor wood boiler for the heat source.
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 08:19:31 pm »
Nice looking container.
What if you straped the walls with galv. screws
Then hire a guy to spray foam the insulation in.
Then screw 3/8 plywood on the strapping for your interior walls.
I have that blue spay foam in my shop, Its spayed on the steel siding from the inside, and it works great.
Your going to have a great kiln...looking good!
Have fun.
Dan
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 07:13:36 am »
Hi Dan My plan is to paint the interior with this rust paint http://eaglecoatings.net/content/rustgrip.htm and then line the container with amvic 2" foam insulation. The base was sprayed with 4" foam.

Got the vents installed.







Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2017, 07:09:53 pm »
Did some more work on the kiln today. Mounted the box and got some electrical component installed, holes drilled (what a pain). Had to rewire the control box as the wires all came out the rear and it would not fit into the black box so I spent a couple of hours rerouteing them through the sides of the enclosure. Dug trench to lay the wire, didn't get a shot of that. did the masking and now ready to paint.





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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2017, 05:57:21 am »
Paint went on well, used a HVLP Fuji and applied two heavy coats. I also managed to get the foam on the ceiling and walls and used some strong adhesive.





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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2017, 05:31:30 am »
Was able to finish off the kiln over the last couple of days. I just need to have the electrical hooked up by a professional. Used the tractor to mount the fans, was a tight fit, had 1/8" clearance on each side of the fan wall. Once it was all lined up, I lifted the forks till the bolts made contact with the foam to show me were to drill the holes to mount.




Pre drill the holes with a small bit, then climbed up top to finish the job. Was quite easy and fast.


Fan wall lifted to final position and held in order to secure. Used silicone doughnuts like YellowHammer used to cut down on any vibration. Finished
sealing the bolt and nuts with silicone.




The fan wall installed.


Placed the Kiln unit into the container and hooked up the electrical connections.




There is 5 tie-down rings on the floor, I am hoping that I could use these instead of putting something heavy on top of the stack, should save some space for extra wood?

Any comments or feedback, much appreciated.
Cheers
Airbus 380 Captain, living in the Middle East, counting down the days till retirement. Timberking 2200,  Kioti RX6010PC,  Polaris WV850

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2017, 06:59:08 pm »
Looks like it could do double duty as a meat locker and butcher shop come late deer season.

Looks sharp, I am jealous.   ;D
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2017, 08:43:25 pm »
That is a quality prepared project that will serve you well.   Nothing as good as doing it yourself with a good plan and the right gear.  Good stuff.

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2017, 08:44:57 pm »
Looks like it could do double duty as a meat locker and butcher shop come late deer season.

Looks sharp, I am jealous.   ;D

or a serious SMOKER  8)  food6
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2017, 09:59:56 pm »
That looks great. 8)  Its really coming along.

I would highly recommend installing a protective structure around the kiln unit to keep boards from falling on it or bumping it when loading since it is a front loader.  It needs to protect against loading the pallets of lumber too far in the chamber and accidently bumping the unit.  It is critical to protect the kiln from any damage or impacts because of the fragility of the refrigeration system.  In my other kiln, I assembled a sturdy metal shelving unit around the kiln to serve as a metal frame bumper.
   
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2017, 10:56:43 pm »
That's one nice kiln.

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2017, 09:17:40 am »
Thanks for the accolades and feedback guys, YellowHammer, I will definitely weld up a cage for the kiln unit, good thinking!!

Will probably get it running sometime in Sept, had to go back to work to pay for it  ;D, just a little over budget.
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2017, 09:19:47 pm »
Looks great, very clean set up and looks user friendly

Thanks

Buck
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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2017, 10:17:05 pm »
Wow, I like the sound of that but it must be very pricey. How about just spraying the metal down with diesel fuel ? Ha ! Or simply getting some galvanized paint ?

Not sure if anyone has heard of this but did some research and found that RUST GRIP may be the answer, can even spray it on the wood floor to protect.  http://www.spicoatings.com/products_solutions/rust_grip

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Re: 20 Open side container kiln
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2017, 10:38:03 pm »
Found this very informative research on the net. http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/corrosion_of_metals_by_wood.pdf