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blade sharpening

Started by Kasba, October 16, 2015, 05:25:46 PM

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Kasba

I just wanted to ask possibly a dumb question. I presently sharpen and set my own blade they are 144  x 1 1/4 x 7/8 pitch and they are 9 degree blades. My mill is a gas 25 hp engine, now the dumb question... I hit a nail today and lost about four teeth in various spots on the band. Would you resharpen them and use them again or just throw them in the metal recycling bin. I also wanted to know am I better off with a 7 degree blade as I mostly cut Western cedar, Western Maple, Arbutus ( Madrone ) and the odd Gerry Oak( Oregon white oak). I could change the degree on my sharpener if needed.
Timbery M285 25hp, Husqvarna 570 auto tune, Alaskan sawmill, Nova 1624 wood lathe, Dogo Argentino

Magicman

Not a dumb question at all.  Reset the bent teeth, sharpen it up, and use it for special projects.  There will be skips and saw marks but that is "character" that you can not get from the store.  Enjoy.   :)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Kbeitz

I would also use it untill it dies... It is rough cut....
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

drobertson

Yep, I run quite a few with gaps, with a fine finish, but not always, so be prepared to change out when needed.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

bandmiller2

An occasional gap is not bad unless there are four or more in a row, then I would set the band aside for hazardous duty milling. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Kasba

thanks for all your help evryone. Any one used Kasco blades? I am thinking of ordering some.
Timbery M285 25hp, Husqvarna 570 auto tune, Alaskan sawmill, Nova 1624 wood lathe, Dogo Argentino

Chuck White

Quote from: Kasba on October 16, 2015, 05:25:46 PM
I just wanted to ask possibly a dumb question. I presently sharpen and set my own blade they are 144  x 1 1/4 x 7/8 pitch and they are 9 degree blades. My mill is a gas 25 hp engine, now the dumb question... I hit a nail today and lost about four teeth in various spots on the band. Would you resharpen them and use them again or just throw them in the metal recycling bin. I also wanted to know am I better off with a 7 degree blade as I mostly cut Western cedar, Western Maple, Arbutus ( Madrone ) and the odd Gerry Oak( Oregon white oak). I could change the degree on my sharpener if needed.

I would set and sharpen the blade, and if it left "bad" marks, I would pull the blade and set and sharpen it again and if it still showed marks, I would take a pair of "Flat Jaw Vice Grips" and clamp it on the teeth and make the bad ones straight!

Been there, done that a few times!

Hint:  Put some marker paint on the straightened teeth so you can identify them when you set and sharpen the blade next time.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Cutting Edge

Quote from: Kasba on October 16, 2015, 09:08:57 PM

Any one used Kasco blades? I am thinking of ordering some.



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Cutting Edge Saw Service, LLC -
- Sharpening Services
- Portable/Custom Milling and Slabbing
- On-Site Sawmill Maintenance/Repair Services

Factory Direct Kasco WoodMaxx Blades
Ph- (304) 878-3343

Kasba

Thanks Cutting Edge, could you recommend what angle I should buy? I have a 25 hp motor, been using 9 but not sure if there is something better?
Timbery M285 25hp, Husqvarna 570 auto tune, Alaskan sawmill, Nova 1624 wood lathe, Dogo Argentino

Kingmt

Quote from: Kasba on October 17, 2015, 01:19:50 AM
I just bought the 4° for my 7HP & in very happy with them.
Thanks Cutting Edge, could you recommend what angle I should buy? I have a 25 hp motor, been using 9 but not sure if there is something better?
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
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Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

drobertson

I like the Kasco blades, very good re-sharpening bands, minimal breakage as well,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

redprospector

On the blade with the broke off teeth, I have the best luck when I grind the "stub" (where the tooth used to be) smooth. It doesn't have to be flat or anything like that, just smooth off the sharp corners where it broke off. If you don't do that, in my experience, the blade will break at one of the broken teeth before too long.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Kasba

I have been milling the last 3 days and I have never broken a blade except for today I broke 3. The sound when I am cutting almost sounds like the blade is slipping. I put more tension on the blade and then after 5 or so cuts later the blade broke. The one thing I noticed was the back side of the band, opposite the teethe has cracks about 1/2" going towards the teeth. The other thing I am considering is that the belts are worn out around the band wheel but I am not sure? Could anyone give me there expertise on these topics?
Timbery M285 25hp, Husqvarna 570 auto tune, Alaskan sawmill, Nova 1624 wood lathe, Dogo Argentino

drobertson

blade breakage is a tough one, at least for me, hard to figure, I've had new ones break, and everything in between. 2-5 or more sharpening s,  it could be alignment issues, blade guide issues, heat, to much feed, hard to say, some batches are just bad, so it could be this simple.  Belts can be an issue as well, it does seem at times it is debris between the band wheels and band while under tension, but then I've had them brake while out side the cut, so just a head scratcher for sure,  I just check for the obvious, swap out and continue on,  I will say I've never seen a crack before the break, and I don't get the opti-visors out either to check, I just swap and saw.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

deadfall

Anyone ever notice a slight fore-and-aft shimmy just before a blade breaks?  Probably a crack progressing across the blade.
W-M LT40HD -- Siding Attachment -- Lathe-Mizer -- Ancient PTO Buzz Saw

============================

Happy for no reason.

redprospector

Cracks in the back of the blade could be an indicator that the blade guides are too far back. I find that mine runs best with the flange on the guides set at about 1/8" from the back of the blade.
Worn out belts on the band wheels is always a problem.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

redprospector

Quote from: deadfall on October 18, 2015, 12:55:35 AM
Anyone ever notice a slight fore-and-aft shimmy just before a blade breaks?  Probably a crack progressing across the blade.

Not that I recall. But I almost always hear a "thump, thump, thump" right before a break.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

Chuck White

Quote from: redprospector on October 17, 2015, 10:56:31 PM
On the blade with the broke off teeth, I have the best luck when I grind the "stub" (where the tooth used to be) smooth. It doesn't have to be flat or anything like that, just smooth off the sharp corners where it broke off. If you don't do that, in my experience, the blade will break at one of the broken teeth before too long.

If you grind the broken tooth/teeth down flat your automatic feed won't have anything to push against!

Many times the tooth will break off short, but will be bent outward and will leave marks on your lumber, that's why I suggested that you use a vice grip and flatten the tooth so it will be in-line with the rakers!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

redprospector

Thanks Chuck, I never thought about that since I don't have automatic feed.  ;)
All I think needs to be done is to dress the break a little.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

homesteader1972

Quote from: deadfall on October 18, 2015, 12:55:35 AM
Anyone ever notice a slight fore-and-aft shimmy just before a blade breaks?  Probably a crack progressing across the blade.

I'd say I see that on almost every break. Also makes a funny sound as the crack rolls across the blade guides. I have caught the last several cracks before they were broke, just by the sound and or the shimmy you mention.
Woodmizer LT40HD20G

Sheepkeeper

Quote from: homesteader1972 on October 18, 2015, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: deadfall on October 18, 2015, 12:55:35 AM
Anyone ever notice a slight fore-and-aft shimmy just before a blade breaks?  Probably a crack progressing across the blade.

I'd say I see that on almost every break. Also makes a funny sound as the crack rolls across the blade guides. I have caught the last several cracks before they were broke, just by the sound and or the shimmy you mention.

That has been my experience also. I almost always watch the blade as it exits the cut to see if it is running true or if it is wobbling back and forth. Usually catch them before they go BANG and scare the dickens out of me and whoever else happens to be around at the time.
The hurry-er I go the behind-er I get.

Kbeitz

Quote from: homesteader1972 on October 18, 2015, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: deadfall on October 18, 2015, 12:55:35 AM
Anyone ever notice a slight fore-and-aft shimmy just before a blade breaks?  Probably a crack progressing across the blade.

I'd say I see that on almost every break. Also makes a funny sound as the crack rolls across the blade guides. I have caught the last several cracks before they were broke, just by the sound and or the shimmy you mention.

First time I heard it I thought I had a bearing going out... Click, click, click....
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Magicman

Quote from: Kasba on October 18, 2015, 12:35:01 AMThe sound when I am cutting almost sounds like the blade is slipping. I put more tension on the blade and then after 5 or so cuts later the blade broke. The one thing I noticed was the back side of the band, opposite the teethe has cracks about 1/2" going towards the teeth.
Quote from: redprospector on October 18, 2015, 12:57:19 AM
Cracks in the back of the blade could be an indicator that the blade guides are too far back.
Correct, plus loosing tension is a sure sign of a dull blade.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

deadfall

It seems like all the cracks I have seen have been from the gullet. This was when I had the LT-30, 30 years back, doing it as a business.  I did the sharpening back then.

I haven't run anything except new blades since I bought this used '05.  I was given two may-pop bands with it, and they wasted no time at all before popping (thanks for nothing, eh?).  I hope to have a place for a sharpener before I run out of the 75 new blades I started with.  Now it's getting hard to find a place out of the weather for more coiled blades. 
W-M LT40HD -- Siding Attachment -- Lathe-Mizer -- Ancient PTO Buzz Saw

============================

Happy for no reason.

terrifictimbersllc

Quote from: deadfall on October 18, 2015, 12:55:35 AM
Anyone ever notice a slight fore-and-aft shimmy just before a blade breaks?  Probably a crack progressing across the blade.
No.  There is just a big BANG and customer jumping into the air.  smiley_bouncing_pinky smiley_bounce If they weren't listening to me about keeping at least 4 paces from the head when sawing,  this fixes it. 

Come to think of it, though, most of my blades break near the end of the cut.  And I'd say that the percentage that break during edging is greater  than the percentage of time I'm edging.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

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