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Which Chain to buy?

Started by knightgang, October 14, 2015, 09:51:46 AM

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knightgang

I have a MS250 and a MS271.  I will be felling several southern pine trees in the near future to mill for flooring.  My previous experiences with chainsaws tends to be that chains go dull really fast and the saws end up working me to death.  I am getting a bit older and not in the shape that I used to be.  I see other folks (and professional loggers) felling trees with what seams like complete ease and speed.

I am planning on moving up to a 18" bar on the MS250 and running the 20" bar on the MS271 (Brand new saw and never cranked).  I am looking to get a second set of bars and chains for both saws to have on hand, what should I get?  I thought it was as easy as just buy a chain that fits, but with so may options now (low kickback, narrow or standard kerf, full chisel or semi-chisel or even a skip chain) I do not know what to buy...

I am a homeowner, however I will be building  house on quite a bit of wooded acreage.  From the time we start felling trees for the flooring, I will be using the chainsaw several hours a week or the rest of my life.

I am leaning to the Oregon line of bars and chains, merely because I don't want to speed the money on the high dollar Stihl being purchased form a dealer.  If It is worth spending the money at the dealer for increased longevity of the equipment, then that is a decision I will have to consider.

Please advise...

beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum

First and foremost is to keep the chain sharp.
Sawing wood will not dull the chain very fast. But letting the tip of the bar and chain touch (even slightly) the ground will take the sharp edge off in an instant.

When the least bit slower to cut, sharpen the chain or change it out.

Your choice for bar and chain..  I am very satisfied with Stihl bar and chain.
I see no reason to be buying extra bars and chains when you have two saws. Each saw should have two chains to trade out when one is dull tho. If you change up to an 18" bar on the MS250, go with Stihl bar and two chains. Take shortcuts and cheap out on something else. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Pine Ridge

Stihl and oregon both make good bars and chains, can't go wrong with either brand. I don't know specifically what chain would be best for your job, but you probably don't want low kickback, and you probably don't need skip chain.
Husqvarna 550xp , 2- 372xp and a 288xp, Chevy 4x4 winch truck

sandsawmill14

welcome to ff :) :) :)

most of my chainsaw work is splitting big logs for the mill and bucking double bunk logs to length but i run a saw a lot. far as the stihl bars and chains lasting i have a 24" stihl bar that has worn out 20-25 chains. i also run the stihl chain 95% of the time. oregon chain will cut fast but seems not to last as long as the stihl chain does.i prefer stihl chain and bars. oregon bars i dont know about because i have never run one of their pro bars but the cheap one seem to have more flex than the stihl. but that probably will not matter to you as my bars start where yours stop. i have a 20", 24",& 28" never use the 20" other than firewood. you will not regret the extra money for the stihl chain.   :)

far as the type of chain you will want the yellow chain BUT WEAR THE CHAPS AND HARD HAT!!!! the chain will kick back if you hit the end of the bar. pine is brittle and when you start cutting there will be limbs break out and hang, tops break out when tree is falling ... you should always wear hard hat  but especially when cutting pine. there was a logger killed about 3 miles from my mill by a hanging pine top. not trying to scare you just warn you to be careful
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

HolmenTree

Welcome to the site knight gang.
My advice is build a good relationship with your Stihl dealer as your already running his product.  Seeing your cutting pine which tends to pick up sand and grit in its bark from the soil it grows in, run semi chisel chain.
Here's a great entertaining read on Stihl product long before the hoop a la of "yellow" chain that has softened the minds of wood cutters today :D :D


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Kingmt

My two cents to take with a grain of salt. I have never found Stihl saws to be able to handle bars as long as they recommend with the yellow chains. If your going to push it to the max on bar length stick to the green chains & it will actually cut faster. I stay 2" under the suggested bar length & run yellow link chains just fine as long as I don't try to force the saw through a bucking cut. It also helps in bucking if you start the cut & change angles of the cut so you're not cutting all the way back against your saw.

I recently switched to a Oregon bar & chain on my little MS180 & both are low kickback. I find them to out perform the still out of the box. The chain looks like it was sharpened with a chisel but to my surprise they cut great & hold an edge longer. I've resharpened the chain & with my smoother looking grind it still cuts better then a Stihl chain. My thinking is it is probably from the anti kickback chain not bogging the saw down. As far as it holding the edge longer I'm just shocked & don't know why. The Oregon bar is a double roller & needs grease. It will tell you when it is dry because it gets very noisy. This is the only bar I have that needs grease but so far I like it.

Your market may be different then mine but with buying premade chain the Stihl is a little cheaper with the buy one get the second one half price. I pay $30 for the first chain & $15 for the second Stihl where I pay $25 each for Oregon. It only cost $28 for the combo tho.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

4x4American

Most dealers I've run across don't know the difference between RS and RSLK, and they're the ones selling the chain!!


I have found that Stihl chain comes sharp right out of the box, where as Oregon chain needs to be filed a little bit out of the box.  The best thing you can do is learn to properly sharpen a chain, and really watch + pay attention to what you are cutting.  They want to cut wood.  Any form of dirt, rocks, pebbles, will dull a chain in a heart beat.  When you buy a new Stihl chain, hold it next to a dull one of your old chains and just look at it until you can clearly tell why the old chain doesn't cut well.  You should be able to tell if a chain is dull by looking at it.  A saw should feed itself into the cut and require no operator ram-jam-bamming.  Another thing, are you filing your rakers?  A saw can be scary sharp but if the rakers aren't properly set, it won't cut worth a darn.  No matter which chain you get (and I firmly believe that Stihl chain is the best chain out there) it won't cut worth a darn if it isn't properly sharpened and rakers set.  I lower my rakers with a depth gauge most times, I set them to 0.025" that way I know they are all the same.  If they are uneven it can cause funky cutting.  Remember, if you're ripping wood you need to file to a 10° angle and for crosscutting, anywhere from 25°-35° will work, depending on whether you are running chisel chain or semi chisel.  Stay away from square ground chain (RSLK) until you really get good at sharpening round ground.  I would say get one loop of chisel chain, and one of semi-chisel (no such thing as full-chisel).  I'm assuming your 250 runs .325" pitch chain and your 270 is set up for .375" (3/8")?  You need to get the right gauge (0.050", 0.058", or 0.063") also you need to get the right amount of drivers.  All this information should be stamped on the bar if you can't find it take the bar off wipe it all down and really look hard use a magnifying glass if you have to.  Don't get skip chain off the bat, get full compliment chain (regular).  Stihl RS is a good chisel chain for 3/8" and .325" pitch chain.  It is a little harder to sharpen chisel chain off the bat.  It cuts faster and dulls quicker.  You might want to try a semi-chisel chain, which will be easier to sharpen, slower cutting, and dulls slower.  Alot of dealers don't know the difference between these, so tell them you want RM chain which looks to me like its semi-chisel from the catalog picture and can be had in 3/8" or .325"
Boy, back in my day..

coppolajc10

Quote from: 4x4American on October 15, 2015, 08:50:45 AM
Remember, if you're ripping wood you need to file to a 10° angle and for crosscutting, anywhere from 25°-35° will work, depending on whether you are running chisel chain or semi chisel.

4x4 you use ripping chain with manufactured 10° or you file RS stock from 30° to 10°?  Seems the latter would require a lot of filing.  Also wondering if you're using chain w/10° free hand or on some sort of chainsaw mill?  Thanks for the info.

Kingmt

I used my grinder but I converted my 30 to 10.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

HolmenTree

When sharpening a new 30°chain to 10° top plate angle you don't have to file the whole length of the cutting edge to 10°. Only a third or half is lots, mills just fine. When you eventually do a few more sharpenings you'll have a full 10° and you didn't  waste a whole lot of cutter.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

sandsawmill14

 I recommended the yellow chain because he said he will be felling. ever try to bore cut a tree with low kickback (green) chain  ??? not saying it cant be done but i wont   :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

4x4American

Quote from: coppolajc10 on October 15, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
Quote from: 4x4American on October 15, 2015, 08:50:45 AM
Remember, if you're ripping wood you need to file to a 10° angle and for crosscutting, anywhere from 25°-35° will work, depending on whether you are running chisel chain or semi chisel.

4x4 you use ripping chain with manufactured 10° or you file RS stock from 30° to 10°?  Seems the latter would require a lot of filing.  Also wondering if you're using chain w/10° free hand or on some sort of chainsaw mill?  Thanks for the info.


Personally I just use my Oregon 511ax grinder to convert a 30° chain, but my friend used a hand file once and said it only took him 8 strokes or so per cutter.
Boy, back in my day..

sandsawmill14

what is the main advantage to the 10 degrees. is it just for smoother cut ??? i have always run the same chain for everything. never measured raker height or angle but i do file a little less angle than factory because it will stay sharp a little longer.  :) keep in mind i am just bucking logs and splitting big logs for my band mill not felling or milling with chainsaw ;D
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

HolmenTree

10° top plate chain rip cuts with the grain more efficiently and makes a smoother cut.
And if your not racing against the clock it crosscuts just fine too and holds a better  edge to boot.

For the same price of regular round ground chain buy square ground chisel bit chain like the Oregon 72-73-75CL, CJ or CK which already has a 15° angle . Out of the box it wil rip and crosscut better then a average sharpened chain, then when it's time to sharpen use a round file or round ground grinder.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

coppolajc10

HolmenTree thanks for the tip.  If you were going to rip large hickory logs with a 25" bar on an 038 super, would this Oregon chain be a good choice?  If so, any skip recommended?  Thanks.

Kingmt

My guess is the 10 degree is for a smaller chip. I get 4-6" chips when I cut with the grain & this really bogs down a saw.
Sawmill=Harbor Freight Item#62366
Chainsaws=MS180CBE(14"), MS290(18"), MS038(20"), MS660(20" & 36")
Staff=1Wife & 5 Kids :)
Please excuse my typing. I don't do well at catching auto correct.

sandsawmill14

the angle the bar is in the wood will change the chip size. the closer to parallel with the log the longer the chips  i try to keep the bar as close to 90 degrees as i can when splitting logs. it keeps the chips broke up and its the only way to get full length cut of the bar :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

sandsawmill14

knightgang sorry we got off subject  :) on the ms271 you will have plenty of power with the 20" bar to run chisel or semi-chisel chain in either 3/8 or .325 i dont know which it is setup for but its on the bar or dealer can tell you. on the ms 250 you might want to run the low kick back chain for safety since you will most likely be trimming/topping the trees with it. good luck and be safe  :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

4x4American

There are crosscut saws and there are rip-cut saws.  I've heard some people say they file a 0° angle on their chain for ripping.  Not sure how that works out for them, I've never tried it.
Boy, back in my day..

HolmenTree

Quote from: coppolajc10 on October 15, 2015, 11:15:54 PM
HolmenTree thanks for the tip.  If you were going to rip large hickory logs with a 25" bar on an 038 super, would this Oregon chain be a good choice?  If so, any skip recommended?  Thanks.
OK now I figured out the topic is about noodle ripping blocks or rounds, even logs how the Australian story I posted earlier did.......... not rip milling.
Yes Oregon makes a great square ground chisel chain.  With oak I suggest a full compliment sequence chain. Leave the semi or full skip for the softwood.
Like I said the 72-75CL Oregon chain has a 15° top plate angle which is perfect for what you need. Stihl makes a comparable chain called a 33-36 RSLK.

Superior cutting chain in all 3 cutting angles in wood grain (crosscut, diagonal and end grain rip milling).
Now the trouble to keep it sharp is not a big problem. It will cost you approximately  $200 to buy the Atop Square Filing Guide and 2 files that comes with it.
Easy to use as the square ground chains are already preset ground with the correct angles.
With this setup you'll has the best cutting chain with less wear and tear on you and your saw.
Save money on fuel and no need to do performance mods to your saw ;D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Quote from: 4x4American on October 16, 2015, 07:40:07 AM
There are crosscut saws and there are rip-cut saws.  I've heard some people say they file a 0° angle on their chain for ripping.  Not sure how that works out for them, I've never tried it.
I tried 0° years ago and it makes very smooth lumber but SLOW.
Back in the 1960s an inventor named Will Malloff took a standard sawchain and ground the top plates off every second pair of left/right cutters. With a round file he filed a 35° angle into the top less cutters as you'd normally do .

The remaining alternating pairs of cutters kept their top plates and were  then  round filed at 0°. These cutters are now called "rakers".
It was a great idea and made an excellent milling chain but maintenence was a PITA as the scratcher cutters and raker cutters took 2 different depth gauge settings and to get the smoothest lumber every cutter had to be perfectly even.

Malloff had a patent on the chain but that didn't stop Granberg from adapting and selling it.
In the end today the concensus is just sharpen a standard chain with a 10° or 15° top plate.

With Oregon 72-75 CL or Stihl 33-36 RSLK square ground chisel chain and the Atop filing  guide you'll having the best cutting chain for anything you throw at it. :)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

4x4American

It's funny, out here to get RSLK chain from a Stihl dealer you have to special order it, if they're willing to, and then they charge a premium.  I have stuck mainly with round ground, as it works good enough for what I do with it, and it's simple to sharpen.  Haven't had enough practice sharpening square ground.  Maybe over the winter...
Boy, back in my day..

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