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Detroit 12V71

Started by LeeB, September 23, 2015, 06:05:33 AM

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LeeB

Need some advice from you mechanic types. Am I screwed on this or is it salvageable? Piston and liner shredded. Connecting rod looks like a pretzel. No other damage that we can find except the liner on the opposite side has a piece broken out of it.



  



  



  



  
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

tantoy

so the first 3 pics is looking down toward the crank with head off? The chewed up surface is where the liner presses into? Could you take a picture panned out a little?
1968 Garrett 20 Skidder
1991 Ford 1920 Tractor/Loader
2000 Takeuchi tb135 Excavator
Stihl 020, 041 Super, 084
Husqvarna 61, 181SE, 357XP

Gary_C

Lee, I'm afraid the only way to find out would be to take the block to an engine shop and have it checked. With that kind of damage, the crank is suspect for cracks and bent. So you are probably looking at the crank checked for straightness and cracks and perhaps regrinding one journal. Then you're going to need new sleeves and pistons, one rebuilt rod, and perhaps two new bore sleeves for the liners in two cylinders.

I suspect you better look for repower options.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

LeeB

Not so easy over here Gary. I could buy a whole rebuilt engine if I were at home and it was mine. A little different story here at work. This engine was major overhauled back in December to the tune of $97k. I keep trying to tell them they can buy a rebuilt from the states for $10-15k. Getting it shipped over and into the country would be another story plus the time involved. They are trying to source up another one in this part of the world but not having any luck. It doesn't help that the whole Muslim world is on holiday right now. Can't get parts or mechanics till next week. Parts probably longer than that. We are limping along without that crane but it's hurting us. They could shut us down at any time for it and then we would be out $90k a day in lost revenue plus costs. We have new liners and pistons on board and connecting rods, gaskets and most of the parts we need. No new crank and no way to machine the block.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

beenthere

LeeB
You should let us know where you are posting from, as you are hard to keep track of on a day to day basis.  ;D

So, where is "over here" today?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

LeeB

I'm in Saudi. Been working here for almost 2 years now on a 28/28 rotation. Not my favorite place to be for sure but I can't ween myself off that paycheck.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

ScottAR

97k?!?  you could airlift a new one and probably a spare from the states for less money I'm thinking... 
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

Gary_C

Better ask for a refund of that $97k.

Without a good shop over there, you are probably screwed. Sure you might be able to throw some sleeves, pistons, rods into that engine and forget doing anything to the crank, but you are rolling the dice and those gambles usually go BOOM.

Can you get things off of E bay delivered over there?
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

treeslayer2003

i assume the upper counter bore is fine? there is no pressure at the lower counter bore so it may or may not weep oil into the air box or loose some boost to the base. how does a new liner fit? as for the crank, lord knows.

LeeB

A few more pics.



 


  


  


 
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

sandhills

I'm afraid I'd be a little more than worried without a major overhaul, 97k sounds awfully steep for what you're replacing to me too, but I guess if you're loosing that much everyday without it, well...

treeslayer2003

my mind keeps going back to why it did that.........

LeeB

That is a very good question. No warning what so ever. Just a catastrophic failure.No water in the oil or vice versa. No excessive oil consumption, no smoking. Was running and went to making an awful racket. The crane operator shut it down and that was the last she turned. The powers that be have said to put it back together with the parts we have on hand and hope it will run until we can get a new engine here.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

s grinder

Having many years as a Detroit man when they were popular in trucks,gensets,and air compressors,i can tell you their's no short cuts when it comes to repairing a Detroit thats had that kind of catastrophic damage.There has to be metal grindings all thru that engine including in the oil galleys,the block has to be disassembled,boiled out,blown out,crank and block has to checked for cracks,blowers have to be disassembled and checked for metal debris in oil galleys.If that crane is making the kind of money you say it is,they should of had a recon engine air shipped to you by now.You throw it together the way it is i'll be susprised if you get a week out of it,then the Powers To Be will be  blaming you for it coming apart.They soon forget you were trying to help them out.

LeeB

That's why I save all emails.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

BargeMonkey

 Alone out in nowhere stuck on a rig, yeah that's almost as bad as being stuck on the moon.  :D  I don't know how salty your chief is, but your only going to glue that back together for so long. I had an 8V92 do something similar in a truck.

BargeMonkey

 I forgot, 53-71 are dry and 92-149 where wet. I bet your elbow deep in paperwork and JHA's over this one.

treeslayer2003

Quote from: BargeMonkey on September 24, 2015, 10:39:18 PM
I forgot, 53-71 are dry and 92-149 where wet. I bet your elbow deep in paperwork and JHA's over this one.
53s are wet. i thought some 71s were to.......can't remember........

LeeB

Long and short of it all, we cleaned it up as best we can and are putting it back together with new liners, pistons, and connecting rods to replace the damaged ones. If it holds together long enough to get a replacement engine out good for us. If not we have only lost time and a little money in parts. Sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth and bare the pain.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

LeeB

By the way, I know this has nothing to do with forestry and logging but I needed to talk to people who are familiar with this engine. Thanks to the admins for not bumping it out and thanks to all who have offered their advise.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

treeslayer2003

Quote from: LeeB on September 25, 2015, 02:03:15 AM
Long and short of it all, we cleaned it up as best we can and are putting it back together with new liners, pistons, and connecting rods to replace the damaged ones. If it holds together long enough to get a replacement engine out good for us. If not we have only lost time and a little money in parts. Sometimes you just gotta grit your teeth and bare the pain.
i'd like to hear back about how that one liner fits and how it runs.

LeeB

The liner went in a little snug but was a hand fit without being forced. The boys should have it all back together sometime tomorrow. We'll see then. I told my my boss we would be giving it a smoke test and for some reason he just did not find my choice of words to be humorous.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Gary_C

I would say it's a good gamble. Your success will probably depend on whether any of the pieces got somewhere you can't see or clean.

I suspect the failure was in one rod/wrist pin/ piston and the loose rod took out the liner on the other side. If the engine came to a rolling stop without locking up, there might be little other damage.

That engine might run so well your boss may not install the replacement when it arrives and you will be a hero.  8)
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

LeeB

Don't want to be a hero. Unheard, unnoticed suits me just fine. Too easy to go from hero to zero. I do want to save money though. If they don't make any they can't pay me.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Gary_C

I don't know much about the fuel system on Detroits, but in general a one cylinder problem can be caused by overfueling that cylinder. So it would be a good idea to check the injector on the bad cylinder.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

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