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ms362

Started by addicted, September 19, 2015, 09:53:00 PM

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SawTroll

Quote from: 4x4American on September 30, 2015, 10:47:28 AM
I would say grease the clutch bearing when you change the rim sprocket not every time you change the chain.  That'll end up with too much grease on it imo.

The plastic caged clutch bearings is a weak point on the 362 (and the 261). Keep spares, and change it at the first hint of trouble. That way you hopefully avoid more extensive damage.
Information collector.

Texas-Jim

I change that needle bearing every time i change sprocket drum. Its 5 bucks and I don't want that drum getting up against parts and getting hot. On polymer housing its a death blow. Guy brought one in shop still under warranty, left it sitting idling with brake on. He idled it up because he was afraid it would die, well with brake on those shoes sat rubbed on drum till it cooked whole side of the saw. he yelled at me and threatened to take me outside because I wouldn't fix it under warranty.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

woodsdog2015

What are the part numbers for those bearings you recommend having extras of for the MS362 and MS251 saws?  Also, Texas-Jim, what do you mean he cooked the whole side of the saw?  I'm not trying to be antagonistic at all I'm seriously just curious because I'm so new to this, and I have a serious investment in these saws and I guess I'm just kind of concerned that you can't have these $500 to $800 saws idle for a bit with the chain brake on or it will damage the saw enough to void the warranty?  I'll never use the chain brake then I guess. 
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

4x4American

Easy easy woodsdog2015!  Use the chain brake, just don't let it idle extensively with it on.  When I'm clearing land or falling trees I idle the saws quite a bit, many folks do, without major problems.  Most times I don't have the chain brake on when it's idling btu sometimes it does.  I am an advocate of the chain brake, it's a handy little tool that helps keeps your limbs intact.  Think that's worth a little $5 bearing that can be changed in 5 min?  That little bearing can be had at any Stihl dealer.  I think for pro saws they're all the same but not 100% on that one just ask for the plastic needle roller bearing.


Now answer me this Stihl mechanics, what about the quickstop versions?  Them things anytime they're running and set down on the ground the chain brake is on.
Boy, back in my day..

woodsdog2015

 :D It just seems like these things are made to use not pamper but what do I know ??? I agree with you though 4x4 the bearing is a modest investment but it seems a little ridiculous with the price they charge for these things that it comes down to a $5 part.. that's my point. 
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

Texas-Jim

Dont get me wrong, i love the brake, its a great invention on chainsaws. But the saw should be idle adjusted to where the chain will not turn when idling. If it does turn and you engage the brake there is a great source of heat generation. If you cant get your saw to idle low enough it needs be repaired. You have two pieces of steel rubbing together and they get hot and get hot fast. When i said it cooked the saw, remember the stihls have polymer housing. Well the non pro saws all have polymer ones. That heat generated is high enough to melt to the point of failure the engine housing. I have one at work i will take pic on Friday so you can see,
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

woodsdog2015

Texas-Jim,  understood about the polymer housing, I'd love to see the pics.  But the MS362 is a pro saw right?  Also, nobody supplied the part numbers for the needle bearings to have extras on hand as recommended.  I would like to pick them up for my MS251 and MS362.  Thanks!
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

Texas-Jim

Yes 362 is pro saw, but theres plenty of stuff under there to be damaged by heat, including crank shaft seals. I think its # 9512 003 3061 but I'm not at work so i could be wrong but ill look tomorrow. i think the 251 uses a different one, But i will be happy get you both numbers and post them when i get home.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

woodsdog2015

Awesome Texas Jim thanks for your help!
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

skipster

one other niggle about the 362 i have is that here in australia,the dealers equip them with a cheaper laminated bar. Pretty ordinary on a pro saw IMHO,particularily at the prices we have to pay out here.

woodsdog2015

Skipster,

Probably the dealers do that to increase their profit margin.  If they are supposed to charge $749 for a MS362 which includes the bar, an extra chain, a scrench, and a bar scabbard and the bar they give you is a cheaper one and they sell the higher probar individually, they're making more off of two customers now instead of one.  I don't know I don't have a problem with my dealer its a great shop and he does things for no charge so I'm not complaining at all.  My point is that a pro saw should not be as fragile as a non pro saw.  If you're paying more for more saw it should be for durability as well. 
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

4x4American

That's one of the main reasons for buying a pro saw- durability.  And more power...they don't make a 90cc homeowner saw lol


As long as you're attentive you should be fine.  I like to walk with the chain brake on, and most times the saw is idling.  But I'm not walking long distances.  The brake being on with it idling for 30 seconds doesn't seem to bother.  Of course it's a different story when your operator presence lever doesn't work.  Then you tend to be a bit more careful.  A stick or twig hits that throttle and off she goes, and you better hope the same stick didn't trip you when you were walking to get the saw now you're falling face first on a spinning chain with no one around for miles and no cell service.  lol  Good way to bleed to death! 

[/size]Often times when I'm dropping a tree and she's past the point of no return, and it's my time to get away.  I pull the saw out and in the same motion apply the chain brake.  So that when I'm getting outta there, I'm not worrying about a spinning chain.  And the saw is idling.  I've been nicked three times by a spinning chain in these particular situations where I'm getting outta there, so I pretty regularly do it now.  Sometimes these sorta things happen.  [size=78%]



Boy, back in my day..

Texas-Jim

woodsdog those needle bearing numbers are MS 251 is 9512 933 2260 and the MS 362 is 9512 933 2380. I  also installed new Partsmart on my home comp so if any one needs numbers ill be happy give them. The old media cat is no longer supported and most wont work now.

Skipster you can get either bar you want, just ask for it. but to be honest theres no difference in wear between the two bars and a lot of extra weight.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

woodsdog2015

Thanks much Texas-Jim!   8)
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

woodsdog2015

Texas-Jim are you a Stihl Dealer or do you work for a dealership?  Thanks again for your help.
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

SawTroll

Quote from: Texas-Jim on October 01, 2015, 10:32:55 AM
Yes 362 is pro saw, but theres plenty of stuff under there to be damaged by heat, including crank shaft seals. I think its # 9512 003 3061 but I'm not at work so i could be wrong but ill look tomorrow. i think the 251 uses a different one, But i will be happy get you both numbers and post them when i get home.

The inboard clutch does of course aggravate the problem with plastic caged bearings, as it locks more heat in the area in question. The combination is a bad one, and it is hard to understand how they could do such a thing....
Information collector.

woodsdog2015

Great, I just paid a lot a money for an inheritantly faulty design?  I was using the MS251 this am bucking some cherry that the power company took down last year about this time for firewood and that saw works great but the nose sprocket always seems to bind.  I have to take it down, clean out the rails and the oiler holes seem to plug up quickly...Its not like I use my saws and put them away I usually take everything down at the end of the day and clean the sprocket area, bar, rails, oil inlet holes etc. and I just sawed maybe a face cord or so and I had to break the saw down and clean everything up because its starts to bind.  Is that your experiences? 
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

beenthere

Yah, you better quick sell it based on Sawtroll's comment...   :D :D
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

4x4American

When you clean out the rails, make sure to pull the derbis away from the sprocket nose.  I blow mine out with compressed air.  I rarely have a problem with the sprocket nose binding up, if it is, I replace it.  You can drill out your oiler holes a little bit wider too, many folks do that.  I don't usually have so much problems as you are having with my Stihls.  I don't know if Sawtroll has run these 362s very much but I have plenty of tanks through mine and I have had nothing but good experiences with it.  Remember, the dealer sees the worst case scenarios alot of the time.  I idle mine with the chain brake on plenty, and don't have a problem.  Don't get worked up about it, and remember, it's still under factory warranty, you can't go wrong.  They hold their value, if you wish to sell it in say 6 months, which I highly doubt you'll want to, you'll prolly be able to get $250 less than you paid for it.  But I don't know your area.  Around here used saws are spendy. 
Boy, back in my day..

Texas-Jim

Sawtroll as long as the saw is turning the chain theres no real build up of heat that only happens with brake on. Is it a bad design, in my experience no. Its simple to repair, simple to replace sprockets, I'm not saying it couldn't be better but its not a bad design by any means. I have lot of people fuss about the bearing but its designed to be sacrificial. It forces the user to replace it at intervals, and its lot cheaper than a crank shaft.

woodsdog I work for a ranch and home store, I'm a mechanic and have been near 40 years. We are going to start handling Echo soon. I like them they are good saws as well. We already sell Stihl, Husqvarna, and the one saw i hate Poulan.

4x4 never be afraid idle a saw with brake on, just make sure idle is low enough its no trying pull the chain and theres no worries. But you bring saw in where that has happened, its not covered under warranty. Warranty covers defects in material and workmanship, it does not cover miss use by the user. Stihl has a very good warranty but no company can afford warranty something that is beyond their control. Its like a string trimmer, if you pull the guard off of it, you pull warranty off at same time. I spend a lot of time educating customers on maintenance just so it helps them.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

4x4American

I ain't never been skeered of nothin!
Boy, back in my day..

woodsdog2015

Don't get me wrong my MS251 bucked some huge maple and it is a very light and nimble saw with a lot of power for its size.  My brother in law bought the venerable MS250 at the same time last December and he likes his a lot too but you can tell the MS251 has more power.  I  cleaned the bar nose sprocket out pretty good yesterday morning and there was still a lot of debris in there so that's whats causing it to bind.  I think its partially my fault as when I was bucking that bigger stuff I plunged in a several times to expand my cutting radius with the 18" bar and I think that probably didn't help.  I'm like the stihl saws so far I guess I'm just hoping for use it and put it away durability that just cannot happen with any mechanical equipment that gets hard use. 
I'd rather be in the woods.
MS362CM
MS251
CS-300
Homelite 8800
FiskarsX27

4x4American

if you open up the muffler on your 251 youll notice an increase in power.  If u grease the sprocket nose it will attract crud.  Once you start greasing you gotta keep at it.  I just hit mine with some wd40 or similar after i blow it out with compressed air.  Works fine.  Never binds up.  If
Boy, back in my day..

Texas-Jim

I'm with 4x4, i don't grease it either. If you keep bar channel clean it gets all the oil in needs. Mufflers are tuned to create a certain harmonic. That actually keeps fuel inside the cylinder to some degree. At some point both ports are open so fresh fuel is pushed out of the exhaust. That was the idea behind stratified engines, to stop that. But when you create that harmonic to slow fuel loss it takes power away, so if you have less power then how is a saw more efficient?
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

4x4American

More flow = more go I figure.
Boy, back in my day..

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