iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

New Hud-son, Woodmizer, Turner....does it matter?

Started by Poindexter, September 18, 2015, 10:37:56 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Poindexter

I've been looking into buying my first sawmill so long I've gone from being dead-set on a decision to confused as hell.....a few times now.

I'm cutting poplar, pine, ash, and maple primarily with sizes up to around 30 inches.  Although I think the average width is going to be a bit smaller than that.  It is for personal use.

If buying new (watching the used market like a hawk) I will get a ground bed with at least 24hp.  Power feeds and things like that aren't decision makers/breakers.  The easiest mill to get my hands on is a Hud-son Oscar Pro 330 which is just a drive down the street and available right now.  The Turner is a 4+ hour drive each way and I'd probably have to step up to the trailer model.  The Woodmizer LT15 would be a delivery and that's probably the biggest pain if it won't fit in a short bed F150.  They're all close enough in price to not get panties in a bunch about.

I know the folks at Hud-son, Turner, and Woodmizer are good people who stand behind their products.  At the end of the day I'm curious as to whether the differences are like Stihl vs. Husqvarna....a buyer's personal matter of preference?
40 acres and a mule

rjwoelk

The woodmizer will fit your truck bed, 3 section of track and the head is on top of it, all straped to a pallet. The track is less then 7 ft long and 42 inches wide. I have the 15 and  we are cutting 8x10 for a log cabin, works great
Lt15 palax wood processor,3020 JD 7120 CIH 36x72 hay shed for workshop coop tractor with a duetz for power plant

york

Hi there,

Of the three mill,you are talking about,you want the WM,hands down,best of the three.....
Albert

Poindexter

Quote from: york on September 18, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
Hi there,

Of the three mill,you are talking about,you want the WM,hands down,best of the three.....

Thanks for the reply, but do you know why Woodmizer is better than the others?
40 acres and a mule

Bandmill Bandit

Quote from: Poindexter on September 18, 2015, 12:35:21 PM
Quote from: york on September 18, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
Hi there,

Of the three mill,you are talking about,you want the WM,hands down,best of the three.....

Thanks for the reply, but do you know why Woodmizer is better than the others?

I general terms;
better material is used in the build.
better and more complete engineering
AND MOST IMPORTANT
hands down best service in the industry!

Besides its ORANGE!

Kidding aside you will never regret a  Wood Mizer!
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Engineer

I am in the same boat.  Been looking for a new mill for so long now that my head hurts.  Here's a brief summary of what I came up with:

Woodmizer LT-15:  thought the price was too high although the quality is second to none and WM stands behind their products.  Used to be a WM owner myself, a 1985 vintage manual LT30.  That beast was a struggle most of the time.  The new WM mills are awesome and still not totally out of the question.  Really want to transport if necessary and the GO package pushed the price out of my budget.  Alternative is a car trailer that could also haul my tractor for log handling.  This is a possibility with almost any manual mill, however.  On the fence with this one.

Hud-Son: I got a look at their line while visiting a show recently, not impressed with quality at all.  The claim is that they are big on customer service too.  I'm not interested in buying a new mill that's already rusty.  All flat stock and angle iron, bolted together.  Limited capacity in the price range I need.  PASS.

Turner: I have no experience, never seen one.

Baker:  Nice mills, heavy duty, robust; seems complicated, expensive.  No longer a FF sponsor, that's not giving me a 'warm fuzzy' feeling.  They apparently have their fans and I am not one, so pass.

Norwood:  Same show at which I saw the Hudson mills, had Norwood's line-up.  All I did was grab hold of the plastic blade guards over the band wheels.  Not impressed with cheap plastic.  I don't care what the rest of the mill was like.  Also expensive as a trailered unit.  They also sell their mills as a kit, and you have to bolt the whole thing together.  I prefer a welded frame.  There are other intangibles I didn't care for either (marketing etc.).  Good mill if you're a tinkerer, I guess.  PASS.

Woodland Mills:  Not seen one yet, but impressed with reviews and videos.  Not impressed with "Made in China".  Seems to be high quality nonetheless.  They actually give you plans to build your own trailer.  Price is extremely competitive for the capabilities.  Almost pulled the trigger on one of these but the fact that they don't, and won't, bring them to shows or fairs, or give out names of customers who are willing to demonstrate their mills, is a deal-breaker.  PASS.

Harbor Freight:  Knockoff of the Woodland mill.  Probably the same mill, made in the same factory, to a lower quality standard.  I'll admit it has its' fans.  I'm not going to buy a major piece of machinery from Harbor Freight.  'Nuff said.  There are American companies that can build a product here to earn my dollars.  PASS.

Timberking:  They do have a small mill or two.  No experience, although I'm sure I've walked by them at shows.  Basic research indicates quality up there with Woodmizer, also priced as if gold-plated.  No trailer option for smallest mill; next smallest version is way out of budget and more mill than I want or need.  Lots of fans, lots of happy owners of TK mills.  A FF sponsor.  Price is my deal-breaker.  PASS.

EZ Boardwalk:  This is where I am leaning.  I have not seen one yet in person, but have watched every video I can find on the interwebs.  I intend to visit one in person.  Price is right, good solid manufactured in USA mill, trailer package is optional but unique, simple and inexpensive.  Reliable Honda or Subaru engine.  Off-the-shelf parts.  Cut capacity at the top of its' class.  Welded frame.  Unique sawhead design.  Easily extended and customizable.  The best part is, I have not found one single complaint or even any indifference to these mills.  It's apparently impossible to find a used or demo model - nobody wants to get rid of a good thing.

So that's it in a rather large nutshell.   Pretty much any of these manual mills are light enough and broken down enough that they will fit in a standard short-bed pickup.  Most ship on a large pallet.  Obviously if you get a trailer model you can drag it home.

Where are you located in Vermont? 

beenthere

Engineer
That's it in your "nutshell".  But everyone's "nutshell" is a bit different.

;D

Sharp blade and mill tuned and adjusted right, they will all cut logs into lumber.
Choice will depend on what the operator is content with... be it backup from the company, be it height of cutting logs, be it ease of moving and turning logs, be it dollars to invest, and the list goes on and on.

Bottom line, will depend on what that individuals' "nutshell" holds within.  Only the individual can make that decision.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Poindexter

Quote from: Bandmill Bandit on September 18, 2015, 12:40:37 PM
Quote from: Poindexter on September 18, 2015, 12:35:21 PM
Quote from: york on September 18, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
Hi there,

Of the three mill,you are talking about,you want the WM,hands down,best of the three.....

Thanks for the reply, but do you know why Woodmizer is better than the others?

I general terms;
better material is used in the build.
better and more complete engineering
AND MOST IMPORTANT
hands down best service in the industry!

Besides its ORANGE!

Kidding aside you will never regret a  Wood Mizer!

That does seem to be the sentiment.  And I'm good to invest more in quality; which, you've pointed out the WM quality is the main difference.  Makes sense. 
40 acres and a mule

Poindexter

Quote from: Engineer on September 18, 2015, 12:54:15 PMWhere are you located in Vermont?

Thanks for the killer response Engineer.  I have been reading your thread about re-entering the milling game.  That thread has been hugely helpful!  Didn't notice you were also in Vermont until seeing your response to this thread.  I'm in Williston...the Hinesburg side of it.
40 acres and a mule

47sawdust

Poindexter,
I live in Worcester just north of Montpelier.I have a WM Lt30 1997 vintage that is a joy to use and as others have said the support and resale are 2nd to none.Lots of good used mizers on CL from Lt15's on up.This is a good time to buy.Come see me if you like.
Mick
Mick
1997 WM Lt30 1999 WM twin blade edger Kubota L3750 Tajfun winchGood Health Work is my hobby.

Banjo picker

Look at the Cooks mp 32 before you pull the trigger.  Banjo
Never explain, your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't believe you any way.

JB Griffin

Quote from: Banjo picker on September 18, 2015, 06:24:28 PM
Look at the Cooks mp 32 before you pull the trigger.  Banjo

Banjo beat me to it, and this is coming from a WM owner.(Just think about that)
2000 LT40hyd remote 33hp Kubota with 6gpm hyd unit, 150 Prentice, WM bms250, Suffolk dual tooth setter

Over 3.5million bdft sawn with a Baker Dominator.

21incher

I have to say that I am happy with my Hudson. Their quality is great and It was  affordable to me in my price range. It will cut as straight as any other brand when properly adjusted with a sharp blade. This is like a Ford, Dodge, & Chevy argument and I think any of the brands will get the job done.
30 inches is a big log  for a manual mill so you may want to start building your muscles up now. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Magicman

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Poindexter, and happy hunting.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

GAB

@poindexter:
I'll be sawing at the Shelburne Farms Harvest Festival tomorrow (9/19/2015).
Stop by, introduce yourself, and I'll allow you to look at a 2005 LT40 HDD.
Gerald
A 2 W Woodworks, LLC.
Charlotte
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Verticaltrx

I've owned both a Hud-son and now a Woodmizer. When properly adjusted with a sharp blade and level track they will both cut good boards. That said, there is a huge difference in the engineering, quality, and ease of use between the two. The Hud-son is a fine starter mill or for occasional use, but if you are going to be doing much sawing you'll really appreciate the higher-end mills.

My observations:
Hud-son
Pros:
Lots of dealers, there are two within an hour of me.
Very simple designs
Uses off the shelf parts, most available at NAPA
Inexpensive

Cons:
Hard to keep level due to lightweight track
Wobble/play in the cutting head in heavy cuts
Hard to change blades
Hand winch raising system and log scale left much to be desired

Woodmizer
Pros:
Top notch quality, fit/finish
Super easy to service and change blades
Excellent, effortless raising/lowering system with indexing wheel and sliding log scale
Very sturdy bed

Cons:
The saw head is a bit heavy, should have got power feed (and will someday)
Dealer is 3hrs away, any parts need to be ordered (but I haven't needed any)
Expensive

If you can swing the price of a Woodmizer by all means get one.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

dgdrls

Here is my take,  on a band go with a 4 post head or Find a WM with the mono-beam (28, 30 40 series)
I believe  Cooks, Norwood or EZ would do you fine,  I would certainly take
a ride to Maine and talk with the folks at Thomas as well,

Or you could always get a circle like a Lucas or Peterson 

Best
Dan


Hilltop366

I watched a demo of a SMG Champion last week it is a very well thought out mill, it is all manual but all the controls and adjustments were within easy reach without taking a step this includes the throttle (it has a centrifugal clutch) , water valve, blade guide width lock and adjustment, spring assisted cutting height and lock.

With all of these things clustered together it made for fast mill adjustment I was surprised how little time it took to getting the mill ready for the next cut. The single leaver backstops and cam lock dog is all controlled from the same side as the rest of the mill controls. Sawdust chute is on the opposite side of the operator.

To me it looked like a well built mill with lot of time and energy saving features.

4x4American


I vote LT15.  There is no way you can go wrong with a mizer.  From the quality of the steel to the customer support.  You get what you pay for.

I have a friend who has a Hud-Son Oscar, and he loves it.  They bought it to build a deer camp and do projects around the farm and they are happy with it.  I have also heard from many folks that they are cheaply built.  At one of the shops I used to work at, they sold Hud-Son.  The manager told me they don't sell them anymore because they are a four letter word that starts with "j" and ends in "unk."  They also advertise on craigslist, for what it's worth.  I think, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 
The thing with Cook's is you have to either drive to Alabama, or pay shipping from Alabama.  I have their sharpner and setter, and I think they did a fine job on it.  On the other hand, there's a vet down the road a piece with an AC-36 that's been sitting for too long, while he was away doing time for our country, and he has gotten little to no help from their end when it came to getting it back going again.  They also won't make me a cam for 7 degree Wood-Mizer blades for my $2,000 grinder.  I think they do a good job manufacturing, but could up their after the sale game.  No offense.  Being that you're a New Englander, I'd surely check into Thomas.


You may have opened a can of worms here!

Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

BTW, Timberking is having an open house on September 26th.  350 Soper Rd. Keeseville, NY.  That is a 1hr 30minute ride from Williston, VT.  You'd be wise to go, grasshopper lol
Boy, back in my day..

thecfarm

Just to throw another wrench into the wheels,check out Thomas in Brooks,Me. Kinda like a EZ Broadwalk.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

ladylake


For a push along mill I really like the design of the EZ Boardwalk with the slanted blade which will push a lot easier . A Amish man near me has a mill with a slanted blade and said with a 10° blade he almost has to hold it back sometimes. Also seems like they are a good value for the money.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Bruno of NH

The new thomas mills have the angled head .
Jim/Bruno
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

justallan1

I can only base my opinion on the 2 mills that I've owned, but here goes.

I started with a Hudson HFE-21 without ever using a bandmill and it worked great. It did seem lightweight, but it worked fine as long as you take your time on wide cuts. I didn't care for the height adjustment because it wasn't consistent on hitting numbers accurately and didn't have a lock that you could set between notches. I do feel that it was a little underpowered, but if you take your time it would saw perfectly straight.
Mine was a dealers demo mill that I paid a bit less than 2/3rds of the sticker price and I got a free dozen blades with it. Working around my 6-7 day a week job on a ranch, it paid for itself 3-4 times in about 2 years and then I made $700 more than I gave when I sold it.
Would I buy another? If I needed one and found a good enough deal, possibly. For the sticker price, NO, I feel there is better options for around the same money.

My new mill is an EZ Boardwalk JR. and I really like it. The thing is just built like a rock! Everything is welded instead of bolted together on the carriage and tracks. I feel the biggest advantage on that is leveling your tracks. If you have to move your mill very much, one piece tracks will be WAY the heck faster to set up level. The EZ Jr. is substantially heavier than the Hudson that I had, but with the tracks set up real level I push it just fine with one hand and rest the other on the throttle in case I ever have to shut it down real fast. The Honda engine well, nuff said, it's a Honda ;D It starts every time just like it's supposed to without a hitch.
This mill has worked flawlessly on logs, but mainly I use it sawing burls. I use Kasco blades and between the mill and blades I get a good enough finish on burl slabs that I can just snap a picture, post it and it's sold.
I will brag in saying that I recently traded a crate of burl caps for a Wright Machine profile sharpener and a Suffolk double tooth setter, so it's very possible to make it pay for itself in a very short time if you can find some little niche that those around you aren't doing or something you can sell on the net.
Hope this helps out a little.

justallan1

Quote from: ladylake on September 19, 2015, 06:54:48 AM

For a push along mill I really like the design of the EZ Boardwalk with the slanted blade which will push a lot easier . A Amish man near me has a mill with a slanted blade and said with a 10° blade he almost has to hold it back sometimes. Also seems like they are a good value for the money.  Steve
I'll say this for sure, if you somehow put a 10 degree blade in a chunk of hardwood on an EZ Jr., you will for darned sure be holding it back :o Don't ask why I know this ;D
New 7 degree blades are on the way.

Thank You Sponsors!