Software and cutlists

[AnthonyW]

Anyone know of a good, free (or cheap) software or app to help correlate the size (diameter of the log) to a cutlist?

[AnthonyW]

No one knows or uses an app to help determine how to cut a log per a cut list?

Would there be any interest in a simple program to do that?

[Brad_S.]

I know the large mills use computerized programs but for my small mill, the log tells me how it wants to be cut. Knots, defects and tension dictate how to cut. I have had customers draw what they expected on the end of each log and while I tried to play along, in the end they too realized the futility. IMO, after sawing enough logs, a sawyer will be able to determine yield better than a program will.

[longtime lurker]

Plenty of programs can do it.

But you requested details on something that was good, and free or cheap. Ain't no such thing.

It's not the software that's the expensive part anyway... It's the scanner setup to give an accurate 3D picture of the log that's expensive.  There's a few systems about... I personally like the old curtain scanners, I think that with the newer sensors that curtain scanning is going to get a second life.

From there it's easy enough to optimize theoretical yield, and a really good system has the optimizing done with regard to inventory... Ie the system optimizes the cut pattern based around the fact that Marge the office girl just took an order for 3x9's, and inventory on 2x6's is low after a big order last week, and we always need 2x12's.

The system scans the log at the debarker, then hits you with a yes or no series of patterns that takes all this into account. 20 seconds later it asks you again with the next log. Every 20 seconds, all shift, every shift, because 20 seconds is how long it takes to feed a log through an optimized canter. ..

It's really cool stuff for ohhhh... The first three weeks. Then you quit and go home and revert to using MK1 eyeball scanning and brain optimizing and get the same recovery rate per log at about 100MBF less production a day. :D

[AnthonyW]

I have not been able to find any programs that do it for a round piece. I found plenty of plywood/lumber cutlists programs, but nothing for starting in log form. I'm certainly not interested in having the program evaluate a scanned photo of the end of the log. I just want to enter the diameter of "meat" on the small end, the blade kerf, the cutlist and go. I use this program http://delphiforfun.org/programs/cutlist.htm in the WW shop to help organize once in lumber form, but it doesn't do round lumber.

I'm not looking to optimize based on a random list or to get the most boards from a log. But rather to organize the cuts on a log to produce lumber from a specific cutlist. This would be the intersection of maximizing the production from the log while meeting the requirements of the list and minimizing the passes with the saw.

As Brad_S mentioned where some customers will draw on the log. I think it would work better if they just handed me the list and allowed me to cut the log. In the end, the same cutlist of boards would be produced (barring defects in the log, etc.).

I have a healthy list of lumber requested with a variety of widths (12x12, 8x8, 6x6, 1x12, 2x8, 2x6, 2x4) that should stack to make nice 'round'ish pattern for efficient cutting. One obvious pattern might be: 12x12 from the center, with a 2x8, 2x6, and 2x4 off each of the four sides. Providing the log is large enough.

[WV Sawmiller]

   That's way more high tech than I am likely to ever be. I visited a big French run sawmill in the jungle in Central African Republic one time while on vacation and they would put/lock the log on the mill, flash a laser template on the end until they had it positioned to give the desired yield then press the go button and the mill automatically cut and turned the log to turn out the boards pre-planned. Was real neat especially since the log was over 4' in diameter.

   If my customers are far-sighted enough to have a cut list I always try to keep the longest, thickest/widest cuts in mind and cut them first then cut the rest into smaller sheeting/boards as they will produce.

   I think there are plenty of formulas/apps to estimate the bf of lumber in a log but because of the log shape, knots, and especially season cracks/splits, you just about have to use your experience to get the best, most usable yield out of the log.

   What I hate is after I cut the big choice log into 2X4s or 1X8s then have a customer tell me "Oh by the way" I'd like a 14"X4" mantel board too."

[4x4American]

if you have an iphone theres a free app called sawmill calculator it can make you a cutlist and it also has a boardfoot calculator that is awesome.  you can do more with the version you pay for but i just have the free one and its good.

[drobertson]

I looked into this way back when I first started, 800 bucks for entry,  too many things to bring into this thread on the topic, except my opinion is no,  it really depends on the cut list in my world, for I'm not production here.  If production is the goal, and logs, mills, material handling and personnel are present, then yes there are many systems being employed, at a cost which the high volume can re-coop in production and sales.  Custom sawing with limited logs available rules out the sophisticated software, mainly because the price is just too high, and can be done while sawing.  Just my opinion. worth about 2 cents,

[AnthonyW]

if you have an iphone theres a free app called sawmill calculator it can make you a cutlist and it also has a boardfoot calculator that is awesome.  you can do more with the version you pay for but i just have the free one and its good.

I have an iPod and downloaded both versions (paid version was only $2). Neither do what I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of an app (or program) that given a log diameter and a cutlist, organizes the cutlist on to the log (similar to Brad_S's customer that drew the board outlines on the end of the log).

[4x4American]

Ahhh..  I think that at this level, that's in your head.  Why do you want that anyways?  How can the computer tell if there's stress and you need to rotate or if there's a bad knot that you want to avoid or the pith is crooked throughout the log and you need to adjust or etc.  It might take longer just programming into the computer what you want to get out of a log than it would have to just figured it in your head and sawed it!

[AnthonyW]

Ahhh..  I think that at this level, that's in your head.  Why do you want that anyways?  How can the computer tell if there's stress and you need to rotate or if there's a bad knot that you want to avoid or the pith is crooked throughout the log and you need to adjust or etc.  It might take longer just programming into the computer what you want to get out of a log than it would have to just figured it in your head and sawed it!

With the specific list of many different size boards I have been given to cut, I thought it would be helpful. You are correct about the program not knowing any of those factors. For that cutlist, I was hoping for a little help on cutting it efficiently.

[ronwood]

When I cut from a cultist I try to cut the longest and thickest boards 1st. In the event the log does not work for those boards /timbers I cut some of the smaller boards and timbers then utilizing the log that did not work for the bigger boards.
Ron

[AnthonyW]

What has bit me lately is the smaller boards are the ones that get cut first while I am targeting the larger cant sized boards from the center. I'm finding it a little taxing on the mind. Trying to cut small boards yet leave enough meat to make the large ones. If I had the equipment, I would cut and remove huge slabs so as to cut the cant from the center. Then place the slabs back on and cut the smaller boards. I am think the variety of the current cutlist, the combination of the 2x widths and the sizes of the timbers requested, make it more confusing.

[4x4American]

It'll come with time.  For now, you might try to take a ruler and a lumber crayon and lay out your battle plan before you start sawing. 

[tmarch]

If I had the equipment, I would cut and remove huge slabs so as to cut the cant from the center. Then place the slabs back on and cut the smaller boards.

I often cut slabs and stack and sticker them until I need to saw them to dimension.  Lots easier to make a 2x6 out of a 2x8 than the other way around. :D

[CaseyK]

Anthony, I've been working on exactly what your asking for but it's based off of the twin blade circular saw I'm building & I assume you are operating a band mill. I will try to modify the formulas and selection criteria to fit a band mill application, I will let you know when I get it working. It will be an excell file.