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Author Topic: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat  (Read 10190 times)

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Offline Gearbox

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2017, 09:49:41 am »
Are you guy's with head gasket problems running extended life antifreeze or dipping it with test strips ? I use test strips and add Nalcool from NAPA .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline Solomon

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2017, 08:30:48 pm »
Hmm,  food for thought....   I do have access to a machine shop and a good machinist.  bearings are cheap enough as well.   :P
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2017, 07:31:01 am »
Bit the bullet and ordered the support kit.
In the 2 years since this thread was started by Marty it has gone up $100.
seems excessive but oh well.
I dont see any rivets on my head gasket but it is metal.
Also going to address my leaking oil pan before i start sawing this yr.
where do I find the tightening sequence for the head bolts?
Only 1100 hrs now after 9 yrs.
I'm getting older and slower.
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2017, 07:04:28 pm »
Ouch no responses yet.
I had hoped for some advice.
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline drobertson

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2017, 07:28:45 pm »
All this great info from a dealer, heard nothing from Indy on this end concerning my cat. Even scoured the net, nothing, so, just saying will corporate chime in?  Seems a bit strange,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2017, 07:55:36 pm »
Why not check with the engine mfg for the torque specs and pattern?  That guy Ben who bought 1x6's or whatever from you he's a diesel mechanic he may be able to help
Boy, back in my day..

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2017, 06:33:55 am »
Hello
I am out of the office. Google 2.2 Perkins head torque spec. I have a diagram in my desk.
I can get it Sat
M
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2017, 06:56:16 am »
Thanks Marty.
The head gasket on my mill is steel, but very thin.
I cut a piece off and it measures .010"
Should I plan to replace this?
Someone posted earlier that the original is some type of fiber, is this the case?
Also my pan gasket is leaking.
It almost looks like I can just take everything off of the fuel pump side and pivot it on the pivot points to get the pan off.
Has anyone done this or will I have to pull the whole shebang.
My mechanical ability ended when I had to start using wrenches other than 1/2 and 9/16 and a flat and phillips screwdriver.
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline irvi00

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2017, 09:05:50 pm »
Unfortunately I have been down the road with "perkapillars". It cost me 25 grand. I will never buy cat or Perkins again.

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2017, 10:35:35 am »
Hello,
   Put clean engine Oil on the threads of the bolts. The bolts are tightened in a sequence. ( Picture I have is way beyond copy and paste) Start at the center and work your way out. If you don't understand let me know.
Torque for bolts for 2.2/3024C and 2.2/3024CT - - - ( 74.5 lb ft)
Repeat the procedure to ensure that all of the bolts are tightened to the correct torque.

Intake valve lash clearance .006
Exhaust Valve lash clearance .006

Hope this helps.

Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2017, 07:34:44 pm »
Thanks Marty You are SO HELPFUL.
I assume that my gasket at .010 thick is the old one.
The only problem I see is that on the opposite side from the front end of the engine there is a bracket that IMO wont let the exposed end with the rivet have enough space.
Also you indicated that you get the gaskets from Perkins.
How do I do this?
If you weren't 4 hrs away I would be on your doorstep with my mill.
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline slider

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2017, 08:12:28 am »
Pete i used my diesel shop ,local to order parts from cat.Just be sure you have the serial number and arrangement number before you order.
If your pan has the drain bungs on the side i would surly take the time to have one placed in the bottom of the pan where it should be. I found one on line for 8 bucks.
I am thinking you have the late model gasket if it is metal.
al glenn

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2017, 07:50:13 pm »
You know a thought on this and maybe other threads too.
Maybe we can get together a class action suit against Caterpillar, Perkins etal.
Perhaps WM would chime in too as there are MANY WM owners with these engines that have failed thru not any fault
of the user.
I'm sure WM bought these many engines on a recommendation of the manufacturer/supplier.
OMG head gaskets failing? Crank bearings failing? oil pans leaking?  in the world of automotive this would have cause a massive recall.
Thoughts on this??
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 Echo
241 acres of woodland

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2017, 09:48:20 am »
Hello,
   Yes, You know this is a long story. Extended warranty was provided by the engine supplier not the engine manufacture. It was not worth the paper it was written on. Not sure of the details exactly. It does not make anyone feel good, as a manufacture, sales team, service. When you say yes this has a warranty then the company does not back it up.
We just deal with it the best we can and inform what may happen. Hope for the best. There are many that have survived with many hours and many that have not. These engines are used in many skid loaders also have issues with cranks and # 2 connecting rod, popping through the block for unknown reason. Not seen this as much on the mills.

Bottom line, make sure it has a crank support kit and the newer head gasket. Change engine oil as recommended. Check drive belt tension with the tension tool. Do not ever over tighten the drive belt. 

 ::)

Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline jaciausa

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2017, 02:33:33 pm »
I also have the Perkins Cat engine. I have added the bearing support but just now seen the post about the head gasket. It only has 1450 hours on it. I had Unit appraised for value before I bought it- no mention of this huge problem in appraisal. The motor has never had a wrench on it that I can visually see. It would have been a big negotiating item had I been told this. Engine runs very well and does not use or leak any oil. I have not been able to operate it myself, except to learn how to operate it and try to get together all of the support equipment and supply of logs.
How many hours are possible for these engines with proper maintenance, if upgraded in time?

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2017, 09:58:57 pm »
Hello,
  I know of a few with lots of hours. One customer has a 2005 51 hp Cat with over 11000 hours on the meter. He did replace the head gasket. I am pretty sure he did not install the crank support kit. Again that is one that I know of, and there are many more with some pretty big hours.
I dont want you to panic but be sure you are aware there are ways to keep things from happening.

Marty

Yes we ( WM)  asked the Perkins/ Cat company and the engine distributor about Serial numbers. But they said it was not their issue. So they would not admit there is or ever was an issue. We ( WM) was on our own. WM did replace many engines with new ones when they were under warranty and there was no reimbursement back to WM so it was all on customer service. Warranty has been long gone on these mills and engines. I think there was a 5 year warranty issued with these engines.
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Online ladylake

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2017, 08:11:50 am »
 With cranks breaking in skid loaders with no side load I'd think just a bad bunch of cranks.   Steve
Timberking B20 12000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Dino setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline jaciausa

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2017, 09:30:42 am »
Perkins Head Gasket Problem Leads to Failure
There must be a beginning serial number for these 51hp Perkins or a date that the new head gaskets were placed on these engines. There probably is a memo or e-mail or a whack of them from manufacturer, supplier, manufacturer, end manufacturer that tells the problem. I think it would have been reported to any end user as an alert. The new head gasket did not appear on the cat-Perkins motors just because! What is the date that perkins-cat was aware of this?
What I think is important, would be something sent out to all known owners explaining this problem. Had I not been a member here, I still would not know that the engine has issues that should be addressed before failure.

Offline jaciausa

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2017, 11:30:42 pm »
Marty, Were some of the engines produced with the new gasket or not?

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2017, 07:52:30 am »
Hello,
   Yes there are some engines that were assembled new with the gasket shown below. 




 

There will be a rivet on the back corner opposite side also.   


Here is the old style gasket.

 

 

Not much to hold together. Just a fire ring, which in the picture had blown between cylinders and some material.

Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill