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Author Topic: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat  (Read 10186 times)

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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2015, 08:43:39 pm »
Well Marty, I got a price from Milton Cat $2,500.00 to change the head gasket for me.
I ask him what he's smoking. :D
Where did you get the head gasket from?
I have to change some mounts too.
 

 
The back mount is bad, I can grab the back of the cat and move it " from side to side.
You can see WM added a sleeve to the new one, The one on the cat now is 1" steel only.
 

 
I think the Wide Head 70 Super is getting closer.
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
http://www.forestryforum.com/sanbornton     NH Timberland Owners Association supporter.
And a license NH soft wood grader.
Sawing since 1987

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2015, 09:33:26 pm »
It's too bad they don't make a wide head 70 super!!!  :D   
I'll be interested to see if you go with the super or the wide!


Phone a mobile mechanic, anyone of em should be able to do a head gasket.
Boy, back in my day..

Offline coalsmok

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2015, 09:43:48 pm »
Pete a head gasket is pretty simple with a manual listing tourqe pattern and amounts.  My coworkers and I can knock one out on a cat in ~4 hrs. Just put everything back where it came from.

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2015, 10:07:17 pm »
Definitely want a good torque wrench if you tackle it.  And yes, the pattern does matter.  Sometimes the torquing patterns can get wacky, but just follow it!  You can do it!
Boy, back in my day..

Offline ScottAR

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2015, 12:34:17 am »
Wide head is listed as an option on the 70 super.
Scott
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2015, 08:05:50 am »
Well all my dreams have come true then!  I was under the impression that it was one or the other.  If you ask me the lt70 should naturally be a wide headed super.
Boy, back in my day..

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2015, 08:41:51 am »
Great info Marty.
Had I known in 2008 that the engine was Perkins I would not have gone for the diesel.
On the sawmill exchange which I havent visited lately, I used to see for sale diesel  powered mills with several thousand hrs on them with an engine practically new.
My mill has only 900 hrs on it but I will check the gasket anyway.
By the way my manual called for an amount of oil which way overfilled the crankcase.
I cant remember the amount called for in the manual.
Another issue is cold starting.
I have to block the throttle slightly after glow plugs are used or it will stall a few times.
But being a snow bird now cold starting wont be an issue.
LT40SHDD51
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Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
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Online Dave Shepard

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2015, 11:30:12 am »
Great info Marty.
Had I known in 2008 that the engine was Perkins I would not have gone for the diesel.
On the sawmill exchange which I havent visited lately, I used to see for sale diesel  powered mills with several thousand hrs on them with an engine practically new.
My mill has only 900 hrs on it but I will check the gasket anyway.
By the way my manual called for an amount of oil which way overfilled the crankcase.
I cant remember the amount called for in the manual.
Another issue is cold starting.
I have to block the throttle slightly after glow plugs are used or it will stall a few times.
But being a snow bird now cold starting wont be an issue.

I noticed the same thing on the exchange. Made me nervous, but I've run mine since new, and it seems to be OK. Doesn't start like a Kubota, though. :D
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2015, 11:37:29 am »
We've been running schaffers 5w30 in our diesels at work, and they've been loving it.  I guess schaffers has done some figuring and come to the conclusion that in the newer diesels they can handle the swap from 15w40 dinosaur to their 5w30 synthetic
Boy, back in my day..

Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2015, 01:24:36 pm »
Pete on the oil capisity,  if its like the 62 on my mill, part of is because you cant completely get all the old oil out.  Another goofy design by Perkins.  I try an siphon all out i can but its hard.  Why would a company put a oil pan on a motor an not put a drain completely on the bottom?  Banjo
Cooks AC 36--Prentice 210C--Morgan edger--Kubota M7040 with loader--Case 580 K with extendahoe--Case 850C dozer--Int 1700 series twin cylinder dump/log/flatbed truck--logging arch--2 logrite mill sp.--Cat claw sharpening system--And a bulldog to make sure it all stays here.

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2015, 05:32:00 pm »
Pete a head gasket is pretty simple with a manual listing tourqe pattern and amounts.  My coworkers and I can knock one out on a cat in ~4 hrs. Just put everything back where it came from.



I can do it, But I was going to drop off the mill and go to the Fair  ;D
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
http://www.forestryforum.com/sanbornton     NH Timberland Owners Association supporter.
And a license NH soft wood grader.
Sawing since 1987

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2015, 06:03:23 pm »
Banjo,
I dont think that the drain on mine is a problem.
It is on the bottom of the pan on mine.
I had a guy tell me that you should run the oil for up to 1000 hrs as the blackness means that the oil is penetrating the casting surfaces and will work better.
sounds bogus to me.
I'll check what I have found on capacity on mine when I get home from having fun t my hunting camp over the  weekend.
BTW I use Shell Rotella exclusively in my diesels.
LT40SHDD51
Kubota 8540 tractor, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 550 Sportsman ATV
1 Husky 1 Echo
241 acres of woodland

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2015, 07:21:51 pm »
I agree with the bogus assessment. :D Diesel engine oil has additives to deal with the sulfur in the fuel. Once those additives are used up, you need to replace the oil. Oil doesn't really go bad, but it does become filled with contaminants. Some diesels will run clean oil, some turn it black right away.
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2015, 06:14:48 pm »
I don't know who, But thanks for the card from Foley Engines parts for my Perki- Pillar .
And they have Rockford Clutchs for my chipper too.
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
http://www.forestryforum.com/sanbornton     NH Timberland Owners Association supporter.
And a license NH soft wood grader.
Sawing since 1987

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2017, 07:09:06 pm »
Thanks for the post Marty.I just finished the head on my 62 horse cat. I first got suspicious when started seeing carbon deposits under the oil cap and the oil was getting dirty too soon. I pulled the rocker cover and found crud in the #2 lifter bore where the gasket failed.
This engine did not skip,nor smoke and had good power.

I knew there had to be junk in the oil pan so I pulled the engine and removed the pan. It was ugly. I also welded a bung in the bottom of the pan where it should have been to start with. Now when I change oil it all comes out.

In stead of pulling the oil pump I installed a oil pressure gage at the block and have 56 lbs of pressure so I think I am fine.
Check out the pic of the pan and how much oil is left after a service.
If anyone is going to do this be warned. This fuel system is difficult to bleed out. We finally had to use a gas rag to get it going.

  

 
al glenn

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2017, 08:25:01 pm »
Hello,
   Yes, Yes, Yes. Remove the oil pan if there is carbon in the head. If you are risking it and have not changed the head gasket and open the valve cover fill port to add oil. Always look for carbon deposits. If you see them it may be to late. The oil pump is in the front cover and it has steel gears in the aluminum housing. It does not take much of the carbon to do the deed, then on to the crank shaft and THEN to the oil filter and it is too late to help anything but a paper weight.

Glad this helped.

Marty
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Offline Solomon

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2017, 03:50:37 pm »
Hello,
   Yes, Yes, Yes. Remove the oil pan if there is carbon in the head. If you are risking it and have not changed the head gasket and open the valve cover fill port to add oil. Always look for carbon deposits. If you see them it may be to late. The oil pump is in the front cover and it has steel gears in the aluminum housing. It does not take much of the carbon to do the deed, then on to the crank shaft and THEN to the oil filter and it is too late to help anything but a paper weight.

Glad this helped.

Marty
  This is a fantastic thread !    I have the 51 hp  Cat/perkins on my mill.   It's a  Logmaster LM4.    It is a 2008 year model.
  I bought it new and it probably has 600 hours on it,  that's a rough guess as I don't have an hour meter on it but I'm a part time sawyer.   It is certainly well under 1000 hours.
 Other than being cold natured and hard to start in the cold, I have had no trouble with it at all.
Would you guess this year model to have the old gasket or the updated gasket ?   as they built the mill and called it a 2008  the motor could be an 07 or an 06 (MAYBE),
  Would my local Cat dealer be able to order the crank support kit ?    I think you're right, that sound like cheap insurance when a new motor is 8k.
  I am going to go back and reread this entire thread a couple of more times.
Thank You Marty for sharing this information with all of us and your knowledge as well.
 Very worthwhile thread and thanks for thinking of the rest of us.  That's a rare quality in people these days. :P
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Offline slider

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2017, 05:10:15 pm »
Solomon,the new style gaskets are 2 piece metal and riveted together.The old style is some type of fiber materal. From the fuel pump side you can see the rivets at the front and rear of the engine.I think the crank support is something woodmizer came up with.I can't see you getting it any cheaper at cat. My old gasket was not metal.
al glenn

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2017, 08:34:12 am »
Thanks Slider,  It's cold as a witch's behind here today.   When it warms up next week (according to that weather man who tells a lot of half truths)
I will go out there ' pull the cover off and have a look.
 That crank support , no doupt, would not work on my LM4 as it is a WM part.
I am concerned about the head gasket though now that I've beem made aware of the exisiting problem.  Replacing a head gasket is no big deal, Replacing a motor is an expense I can't really afford.
 I'd rather put that money into my Grandson's colledge tuition fund I've been building on for a few years now.
 I learn something every time I log onto the FF and this is the only site I know of where 99 and 44/100 % of the folks on here ,
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2017, 09:39:26 am »
I would think that I would not to hard to make a crank support
for a engine.

 

 
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