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Author Topic: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat  (Read 8811 times)

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Offline MartyParsons

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Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« on: September 06, 2015, 11:06:06 pm »
 Hello,
      Customer brought in 2004 Super LT40 with the Cat diesel 51 hp. There were no issues with the engine. I recommended he install the crank support kit. I also saw it was the original head gasket. I asked him if I could change the gasket to prevent future engine damage. Here is what I found.

Engine spec. Says to adjust the valves to .02 mm cold which is .008 intake and exhaust .



 

 I like to keep everything in order.

 

 

As you can see the gasket had failed.

 

 

The new gasket is quite different than original. Note the brass rivets. If the gasket has been changed or was a later version it will have the rivets. You can see these are on the outside of the engine. 
 

 

 

 

When the head gasket fails it creates carbon from heating the engine oil. The carbon then drops into the oil pan and is pulled into the oil pump pick up and engine failure will be next.

 

 

You can see the air filter was just a little dirty.
 

 

Torque head bolts to 75 ft/lb. adjust valves to .008 engine turns counter clockwise from the flywheel side. Total labor time is about 6 hours.

Hope this helps. If you have a Cat 51 or 62 hp check the gasket for rivets .  Plan on replacing the gasket if this has not been done or plan an replacing the engine.

Marty
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Offline barbender

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 12:48:36 am »
Even though I don't have the Cat, I really appreciate you taking the time to share this info, Marty!
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Offline BCsaw

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 01:07:06 am »
Great post, Marty. This is heads up information. :D :D

Pun intended!
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 07:09:12 am »
What was the hrs on the cat?
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 07:27:12 am »
I too thank you for posting this info.  I have a different mill but it has the perkins 62 turbo on it.  I have already been into the eng. because of piston failure, and I bet I got the original gaskets back when we put it back together.  How could you make sure you got the new gaskets if you ordered them...I would have to deal directly with Perkins...Not fun either.... ... One other thing that carbon could do for you, if you keep running the mill after getting blow by the dirty oil will ruin the turbo, if you have one.  Thanks again.  Banjo
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 07:43:38 am »
Good post, Marty!  Customer is lucky you saved him alot of grief in the future.  I'm suprised he didn't notice the filters were smoked.  What did he bring the mill in for originally?
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 07:46:58 am »
After thinking about Marty's post.  It makes me think that I could have had a gasket failure that caused the other problems.  Engine was still cranking and running when I downed it but it was using a lot of oil.  Banjo
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 08:35:37 am »
Hello,
Most of these head gaskets failed on the fire ring toward the pre heat chamber. This would blow combustion gasses into the push tube hole ( Lifter push rod area) . This hot gas would burn the oil in this area. Most times when you remove the oil filler cap on the valve cover you can see the carbon and black oil just by looking. The big issues is there are no external signs that there is an issue. They do use engine oil but other than that most times it is to late and the carbon does its job on the crank or oil pump.
If this happens and you catch it soon enough you then remove the engine and take off the oil pan, clean then check the oil pump to make sure it is not scored.
The mill came in for the crank support kit and service and alignment. There was another issue with the engine related to the throttle control sticking. It also has a cylinder leaking on the clamp.
It has over 4000 hours on this engine and the mill.

Even though I have seen these engines fail due to crank weakness and head gasket issues. When the engine started it makes you smile.  ;D. It is a very simple engine. Even though it is a Perkins it purrs like a Cat.

You can tell if the 2.2 engine has the new gasket by looking for the rivet one will be on the front of the engine under the thermostat and the other one is on the opposite side in the back. If you can not see the rivet then you have the original gasket. I get the gaskets from Perkins with no issues. The valve cover and the timing cover has o- rings for gaskets and I have always reused them with no issues.
The engine is a 2.2 the 51 hp has no Turbo and the 62 has the turbo. I think some manufactures play with the hp specs for marketing. 

Marty
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 08:38:32 am »
They call them a Perkapillar!
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 07:24:39 am »
So Marty if I don't see  Carbon on the underside of the oil cap I'm good? Maybe?
I'm Calling Cat today. Thanks for the info.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2015, 03:38:27 pm »
I don't see any gasket sticking out on mine, so I'm guessing it's the original gasket. I'm going to pull the valve cover and look down the push rod tubes for coking.
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 03:45:59 pm »
Hello,
When this mill came in there were no issues, not using oil, running ok except for the throttle solenoid miss adjustment.
I was kind of thinking. Am I spending this guys money for nothing. I kind of felt better once I saw the gasket.
It did come in for valve adjustment. If you have one of these engines you can remove the valve cover and reuse the rubber gasket. It would cost you nothing but a little time. Turn the engine over to TDC#1 check the first three valves in the front. and the 6th one. Turn the engine 180 and do the rear three and the 5th one. From the back forward.  Clean and reinstall the cover. Pretty straight forward. If you remove the rocker box make DanG you get the push rods in place. I did bend one on the first one. Lesson learned. The other think I do is plug the lifter holes with paper towels to keep the gasket material out. If it falls down in the hole it is hard to get the material out. I don't like sand paper or any type of abrasive around an engine. I just use a gasket scraper and a razor blade. If it is tough you can use gasket remover. This is only in a last resort. I do not like this stuff or my skin does not like it.
The customers first call was the engine was blowing smoke rings at idle. We talked about maintenance of the valves. Then he called and said he found the throttle limit screw bent. He replaced this but did not get it quite right.
I have the engine running and the crank support kit on. I had a hose failure on the turner now I have that to repair. I guess better here than out in the field.
I also need to put a seal kit in the clamp up and down.

Hope this helps.

Marty
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2015, 12:55:07 pm »
Marty, Have you had to redo a 26 horse Cat, That WM puts on the edger?
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2015, 11:35:53 pm »
Hello,
I have not seen any of the other Cat or Perkins engines have any issues. The 62 and the 51 seem to be the issue. I see or hear of 2 or 3 a year. I think they are getting all repaired or buried in the scrap.
I saw one today 51 hp with about 3000 hours. Original head gasket and no crank support.
Marty
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Offline logs2lumber

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2015, 08:20:13 am »
This is great information because i am actually looking at a lt40 super with 52 cat engine. I will sure look at the head gasket for sure and when you say crank support what do i need to look at there?  the mill has around 3200 hours on it

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2015, 08:54:52 am »
The crank support is an external bearing that is mounted on the end of the crankshaft to give it extra support.  Far as I can tell, the drive belt pulling on the end of the shaft can cause uneven wear, and you need that belt to be tight. 
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2015, 09:03:00 am »
I guess you could call a broken crank uneven wear. :D
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2015, 09:19:13 am »
Well it wears unevenly before it breaks!  lol



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Offline logs2lumber

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2015, 12:47:51 pm »
Is the 51 cat with 3100 hrs ok  or is this at point to where it might have troubles? just trying to get some pointers on the engine since the mill i am looking at has it on it

Marty what would the upgrade parts to the crank cost ?

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2015, 09:10:53 pm »
Hello,
Part number for the 51 hp. 061131. $ 350.00. Crank support kit. New engine is about $8,000. Pretty cheap insurance. IMHO.
M
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2015, 08:43:39 pm »
Well Marty, I got a price from Milton Cat $2,500.00 to change the head gasket for me.
I ask him what he's smoking. :D
Where did you get the head gasket from?
I have to change some mounts too.
 

 
The back mount is bad, I can grab the back of the cat and move it " from side to side.
You can see WM added a sleeve to the new one, The one on the cat now is 1" steel only.
 

 
I think the Wide Head 70 Super is getting closer.
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2015, 09:33:26 pm »
It's too bad they don't make a wide head 70 super!!!  :D   
I'll be interested to see if you go with the super or the wide!


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Offline coalsmok

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2015, 09:43:48 pm »
Pete a head gasket is pretty simple with a manual listing tourqe pattern and amounts.  My coworkers and I can knock one out on a cat in ~4 hrs. Just put everything back where it came from.

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2015, 10:07:17 pm »
Definitely want a good torque wrench if you tackle it.  And yes, the pattern does matter.  Sometimes the torquing patterns can get wacky, but just follow it!  You can do it!
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Offline ScottAR

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2015, 12:34:17 am »
Wide head is listed as an option on the 70 super.
Scott
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2015, 08:05:50 am »
Well all my dreams have come true then!  I was under the impression that it was one or the other.  If you ask me the lt70 should naturally be a wide headed super.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2015, 08:41:51 am »
Great info Marty.
Had I known in 2008 that the engine was Perkins I would not have gone for the diesel.
On the sawmill exchange which I havent visited lately, I used to see for sale diesel  powered mills with several thousand hrs on them with an engine practically new.
My mill has only 900 hrs on it but I will check the gasket anyway.
By the way my manual called for an amount of oil which way overfilled the crankcase.
I cant remember the amount called for in the manual.
Another issue is cold starting.
I have to block the throttle slightly after glow plugs are used or it will stall a few times.
But being a snow bird now cold starting wont be an issue.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2015, 11:30:12 am »
Great info Marty.
Had I known in 2008 that the engine was Perkins I would not have gone for the diesel.
On the sawmill exchange which I havent visited lately, I used to see for sale diesel  powered mills with several thousand hrs on them with an engine practically new.
My mill has only 900 hrs on it but I will check the gasket anyway.
By the way my manual called for an amount of oil which way overfilled the crankcase.
I cant remember the amount called for in the manual.
Another issue is cold starting.
I have to block the throttle slightly after glow plugs are used or it will stall a few times.
But being a snow bird now cold starting wont be an issue.

I noticed the same thing on the exchange. Made me nervous, but I've run mine since new, and it seems to be OK. Doesn't start like a Kubota, though. :D
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2015, 11:37:29 am »
We've been running schaffers 5w30 in our diesels at work, and they've been loving it.  I guess schaffers has done some figuring and come to the conclusion that in the newer diesels they can handle the swap from 15w40 dinosaur to their 5w30 synthetic
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2015, 01:24:36 pm »
Pete on the oil capisity,  if its like the 62 on my mill, part of is because you cant completely get all the old oil out.  Another goofy design by Perkins.  I try an siphon all out i can but its hard.  Why would a company put a oil pan on a motor an not put a drain completely on the bottom?  Banjo
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2015, 05:32:00 pm »
Pete a head gasket is pretty simple with a manual listing tourqe pattern and amounts.  My coworkers and I can knock one out on a cat in ~4 hrs. Just put everything back where it came from.



I can do it, But I was going to drop off the mill and go to the Fair  ;D
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
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And a license NH soft wood grader.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2015, 06:03:23 pm »
Banjo,
I dont think that the drain on mine is a problem.
It is on the bottom of the pan on mine.
I had a guy tell me that you should run the oil for up to 1000 hrs as the blackness means that the oil is penetrating the casting surfaces and will work better.
sounds bogus to me.
I'll check what I have found on capacity on mine when I get home from having fun t my hunting camp over the  weekend.
BTW I use Shell Rotella exclusively in my diesels.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2015, 07:21:51 pm »
I agree with the bogus assessment. :D Diesel engine oil has additives to deal with the sulfur in the fuel. Once those additives are used up, you need to replace the oil. Oil doesn't really go bad, but it does become filled with contaminants. Some diesels will run clean oil, some turn it black right away.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2015, 06:14:48 pm »
I don't know who, But thanks for the card from Foley Engines parts for my Perki- Pillar .
And they have Rockford Clutchs for my chipper too.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2017, 07:09:06 pm »
Thanks for the post Marty.I just finished the head on my 62 horse cat. I first got suspicious when started seeing carbon deposits under the oil cap and the oil was getting dirty too soon. I pulled the rocker cover and found crud in the #2 lifter bore where the gasket failed.
This engine did not skip,nor smoke and had good power.

I knew there had to be junk in the oil pan so I pulled the engine and removed the pan. It was ugly. I also welded a bung in the bottom of the pan where it should have been to start with. Now when I change oil it all comes out.

In stead of pulling the oil pump I installed a oil pressure gage at the block and have 56 lbs of pressure so I think I am fine.
Check out the pic of the pan and how much oil is left after a service.
If anyone is going to do this be warned. This fuel system is difficult to bleed out. We finally had to use a gas rag to get it going.

  

 
al glenn

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2017, 08:25:01 pm »
Hello,
   Yes, Yes, Yes. Remove the oil pan if there is carbon in the head. If you are risking it and have not changed the head gasket and open the valve cover fill port to add oil. Always look for carbon deposits. If you see them it may be to late. The oil pump is in the front cover and it has steel gears in the aluminum housing. It does not take much of the carbon to do the deed, then on to the crank shaft and THEN to the oil filter and it is too late to help anything but a paper weight.

Glad this helped.

Marty
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2017, 03:50:37 pm »
Hello,
   Yes, Yes, Yes. Remove the oil pan if there is carbon in the head. If you are risking it and have not changed the head gasket and open the valve cover fill port to add oil. Always look for carbon deposits. If you see them it may be to late. The oil pump is in the front cover and it has steel gears in the aluminum housing. It does not take much of the carbon to do the deed, then on to the crank shaft and THEN to the oil filter and it is too late to help anything but a paper weight.

Glad this helped.

Marty
  This is a fantastic thread !    I have the 51 hp  Cat/perkins on my mill.   It's a  Logmaster LM4.    It is a 2008 year model.
  I bought it new and it probably has 600 hours on it,  that's a rough guess as I don't have an hour meter on it but I'm a part time sawyer.   It is certainly well under 1000 hours.
 Other than being cold natured and hard to start in the cold, I have had no trouble with it at all.
Would you guess this year model to have the old gasket or the updated gasket ?   as they built the mill and called it a 2008  the motor could be an 07 or an 06 (MAYBE),
  Would my local Cat dealer be able to order the crank support kit ?    I think you're right, that sound like cheap insurance when a new motor is 8k.
  I am going to go back and reread this entire thread a couple of more times.
Thank You Marty for sharing this information with all of us and your knowledge as well.
 Very worthwhile thread and thanks for thinking of the rest of us.  That's a rare quality in people these days. :P
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2017, 05:10:15 pm »
Solomon,the new style gaskets are 2 piece metal and riveted together.The old style is some type of fiber materal. From the fuel pump side you can see the rivets at the front and rear of the engine.I think the crank support is something woodmizer came up with.I can't see you getting it any cheaper at cat. My old gasket was not metal.
al glenn

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2017, 08:34:12 am »
Thanks Slider,  It's cold as a witch's behind here today.   When it warms up next week (according to that weather man who tells a lot of half truths)
I will go out there ' pull the cover off and have a look.
 That crank support , no doupt, would not work on my LM4 as it is a WM part.
I am concerned about the head gasket though now that I've beem made aware of the exisiting problem.  Replacing a head gasket is no big deal, Replacing a motor is an expense I can't really afford.
 I'd rather put that money into my Grandson's colledge tuition fund I've been building on for a few years now.
 I learn something every time I log onto the FF and this is the only site I know of where 99 and 44/100 % of the folks on here ,
 "ARE WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE"
And the phoney's are easy to spot !
  If I look at my Perkapillar and get unsure of what I'm looking for , I will PM a couple of you good folks on here.
 Thanks to everybody on this forum.  You all make this the best place on the web to come to and spend a litte time.
 I need to take a vacation and travel around some and acually meet some of you good folks in person.
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2017, 09:39:26 am »
I would think that I would not to hard to make a crank support
for a engine.

 

 
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2017, 09:49:41 am »
Are you guy's with head gasket problems running extended life antifreeze or dipping it with test strips ? I use test strips and add Nalcool from NAPA .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2017, 08:30:48 pm »
Hmm,  food for thought....   I do have access to a machine shop and a good machinist.  bearings are cheap enough as well.   :P
Time and Money,  If you have the one, you rarely have the other.

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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2017, 07:31:01 am »
Bit the bullet and ordered the support kit.
In the 2 years since this thread was started by Marty it has gone up $100.
seems excessive but oh well.
I dont see any rivets on my head gasket but it is metal.
Also going to address my leaking oil pan before i start sawing this yr.
where do I find the tightening sequence for the head bolts?
Only 1100 hrs now after 9 yrs.
I'm getting older and slower.
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Kubota 900 RTV
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2017, 07:04:28 pm »
Ouch no responses yet.
I had hoped for some advice.
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Offline drobertson

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #44 on: April 12, 2017, 07:28:45 pm »
All this great info from a dealer, heard nothing from Indy on this end concerning my cat. Even scoured the net, nothing, so, just saying will corporate chime in?  Seems a bit strange,
Lt-40 super Cat 51hp, smith single head resaw, 362,310 stihl, and a nice real, nice small poulan!  585D Case loader, only one dog, some kind of a mess right now, but learning.

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2017, 07:55:36 pm »
Why not check with the engine mfg for the torque specs and pattern?  That guy Ben who bought 1x6's or whatever from you he's a diesel mechanic he may be able to help
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2017, 06:33:55 am »
Hello
I am out of the office. Google 2.2 Perkins head torque spec. I have a diagram in my desk.
I can get it Sat
M
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2017, 06:56:16 am »
Thanks Marty.
The head gasket on my mill is steel, but very thin.
I cut a piece off and it measures .010"
Should I plan to replace this?
Someone posted earlier that the original is some type of fiber, is this the case?
Also my pan gasket is leaking.
It almost looks like I can just take everything off of the fuel pump side and pivot it on the pivot points to get the pan off.
Has anyone done this or will I have to pull the whole shebang.
My mechanical ability ended when I had to start using wrenches other than 1/2 and 9/16 and a flat and phillips screwdriver.
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Offline irvi00

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2017, 09:05:50 pm »
Unfortunately I have been down the road with "perkapillars". It cost me 25 grand. I will never buy cat or Perkins again.

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2017, 10:35:35 am »
Hello,
   Put clean engine Oil on the threads of the bolts. The bolts are tightened in a sequence. ( Picture I have is way beyond copy and paste) Start at the center and work your way out. If you don't understand let me know.
Torque for bolts for 2.2/3024C and 2.2/3024CT - - - ( 74.5 lb ft)
Repeat the procedure to ensure that all of the bolts are tightened to the correct torque.

Intake valve lash clearance .006
Exhaust Valve lash clearance .006

Hope this helps.

Marty
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2017, 07:34:44 pm »
Thanks Marty You are SO HELPFUL.
I assume that my gasket at .010 thick is the old one.
The only problem I see is that on the opposite side from the front end of the engine there is a bracket that IMO wont let the exposed end with the rivet have enough space.
Also you indicated that you get the gaskets from Perkins.
How do I do this?
If you weren't 4 hrs away I would be on your doorstep with my mill.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2017, 08:12:28 am »
Pete i used my diesel shop ,local to order parts from cat.Just be sure you have the serial number and arrangement number before you order.
If your pan has the drain bungs on the side i would surly take the time to have one placed in the bottom of the pan where it should be. I found one on line for 8 bucks.
I am thinking you have the late model gasket if it is metal.
al glenn

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2017, 07:50:13 pm »
You know a thought on this and maybe other threads too.
Maybe we can get together a class action suit against Caterpillar, Perkins etal.
Perhaps WM would chime in too as there are MANY WM owners with these engines that have failed thru not any fault
of the user.
I'm sure WM bought these many engines on a recommendation of the manufacturer/supplier.
OMG head gaskets failing? Crank bearings failing? oil pans leaking?  in the world of automotive this would have cause a massive recall.
Thoughts on this??
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2017, 09:48:20 am »
Hello,
   Yes, You know this is a long story. Extended warranty was provided by the engine supplier not the engine manufacture. It was not worth the paper it was written on. Not sure of the details exactly. It does not make anyone feel good, as a manufacture, sales team, service. When you say yes this has a warranty then the company does not back it up.
We just deal with it the best we can and inform what may happen. Hope for the best. There are many that have survived with many hours and many that have not. These engines are used in many skid loaders also have issues with cranks and # 2 connecting rod, popping through the block for unknown reason. Not seen this as much on the mills.

Bottom line, make sure it has a crank support kit and the newer head gasket. Change engine oil as recommended. Check drive belt tension with the tension tool. Do not ever over tighten the drive belt. 

 ::)

Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2017, 02:33:33 pm »
I also have the Perkins Cat engine. I have added the bearing support but just now seen the post about the head gasket. It only has 1450 hours on it. I had Unit appraised for value before I bought it- no mention of this huge problem in appraisal. The motor has never had a wrench on it that I can visually see. It would have been a big negotiating item had I been told this. Engine runs very well and does not use or leak any oil. I have not been able to operate it myself, except to learn how to operate it and try to get together all of the support equipment and supply of logs.
How many hours are possible for these engines with proper maintenance, if upgraded in time?

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2017, 09:58:57 pm »
Hello,
  I know of a few with lots of hours. One customer has a 2005 51 hp Cat with over 11000 hours on the meter. He did replace the head gasket. I am pretty sure he did not install the crank support kit. Again that is one that I know of, and there are many more with some pretty big hours.
I dont want you to panic but be sure you are aware there are ways to keep things from happening.

Marty

Yes we ( WM)  asked the Perkins/ Cat company and the engine distributor about Serial numbers. But they said it was not their issue. So they would not admit there is or ever was an issue. We ( WM) was on our own. WM did replace many engines with new ones when they were under warranty and there was no reimbursement back to WM so it was all on customer service. Warranty has been long gone on these mills and engines. I think there was a 5 year warranty issued with these engines.
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2017, 08:11:50 am »
 With cranks breaking in skid loaders with no side load I'd think just a bad bunch of cranks.   Steve
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2017, 09:30:42 am »
Perkins Head Gasket Problem Leads to Failure
There must be a beginning serial number for these 51hp Perkins or a date that the new head gaskets were placed on these engines. There probably is a memo or e-mail or a whack of them from manufacturer, supplier, manufacturer, end manufacturer that tells the problem. I think it would have been reported to any end user as an alert. The new head gasket did not appear on the cat-Perkins motors just because! What is the date that perkins-cat was aware of this?
What I think is important, would be something sent out to all known owners explaining this problem. Had I not been a member here, I still would not know that the engine has issues that should be addressed before failure.

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2017, 11:30:42 pm »
Marty, Were some of the engines produced with the new gasket or not?

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2017, 07:52:30 am »
Hello,
   Yes there are some engines that were assembled new with the gasket shown below. 




 

There will be a rivet on the back corner opposite side also.   


Here is the old style gasket.

 

 

Not much to hold together. Just a fire ring, which in the picture had blown between cylinders and some material.

Marty
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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #60 on: April 25, 2017, 08:32:06 am »
Those cylinders look to be pretty close together!  Reminds me of the 400 small block Chevy.
Mike

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2017, 09:32:02 am »
Marty, Thanks for the information, There are no pieces of the gasket overhanging block on my mill except for one small place.
 I guess I need to add this to my list of bad news on this mill. I can not find any carbon on the oil filler cap! or telltale sign of damage. So I guess that is the good news, unless I am still being over optimistic that I do not have a permanent problem. What is the next steps in determining whether motor is damaged. Also what year or date did this first become known to WM?

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2017, 08:44:43 pm »
I guess I should take the valve cover off to see if I can spot any carbon deposits. I believe any future owners of a used 51hp cat sawmill should be given a heads up of this possible problem with the gasket.
 
This really affects the value of this mill or any with the problem engines. I am not convinced that all of the old gasketed cats will have this problem. Some of the FF owners are not having any problems. Possibly a bad batch of the old head gaskets could have doomed only some of these engines? I guess I have to replace the head gasket to protect my investment, even if it shows no signs of carbon. Even then I would need to document that it has no problem before it is changed.