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Author Topic: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat  (Read 8762 times)

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Offline MartyParsons

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Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« on: September 06, 2015, 11:06:06 pm »
 Hello,
      Customer brought in 2004 Super LT40 with the Cat diesel 51 hp. There were no issues with the engine. I recommended he install the crank support kit. I also saw it was the original head gasket. I asked him if I could change the gasket to prevent future engine damage. Here is what I found.

Engine spec. Says to adjust the valves to .02 mm cold which is .008 intake and exhaust .



 

 I like to keep everything in order.

 

 

As you can see the gasket had failed.

 

 

The new gasket is quite different than original. Note the brass rivets. If the gasket has been changed or was a later version it will have the rivets. You can see these are on the outside of the engine. 
 

 

 

 

When the head gasket fails it creates carbon from heating the engine oil. The carbon then drops into the oil pan and is pulled into the oil pump pick up and engine failure will be next.

 

 

You can see the air filter was just a little dirty.
 

 

Torque head bolts to 75 ft/lb. adjust valves to .008 engine turns counter clockwise from the flywheel side. Total labor time is about 6 hours.

Hope this helps. If you have a Cat 51 or 62 hp check the gasket for rivets .  Plan on replacing the gasket if this has not been done or plan an replacing the engine.

Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline barbender

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 12:48:36 am »
Even though I don't have the Cat, I really appreciate you taking the time to share this info, Marty!
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Offline BCsaw

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 01:07:06 am »
Great post, Marty. This is heads up information. :D :D

Pun intended!
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Online Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 07:09:12 am »
What was the hrs on the cat?
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 07:27:12 am »
I too thank you for posting this info.  I have a different mill but it has the perkins 62 turbo on it.  I have already been into the eng. because of piston failure, and I bet I got the original gaskets back when we put it back together.  How could you make sure you got the new gaskets if you ordered them...I would have to deal directly with Perkins...Not fun either.... ... One other thing that carbon could do for you, if you keep running the mill after getting blow by the dirty oil will ruin the turbo, if you have one.  Thanks again.  Banjo
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 07:43:38 am »
Good post, Marty!  Customer is lucky you saved him alot of grief in the future.  I'm suprised he didn't notice the filters were smoked.  What did he bring the mill in for originally?
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Offline Banjo picker

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2015, 07:46:58 am »
After thinking about Marty's post.  It makes me think that I could have had a gasket failure that caused the other problems.  Engine was still cranking and running when I downed it but it was using a lot of oil.  Banjo
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2015, 08:35:37 am »
Hello,
Most of these head gaskets failed on the fire ring toward the pre heat chamber. This would blow combustion gasses into the push tube hole ( Lifter push rod area) . This hot gas would burn the oil in this area. Most times when you remove the oil filler cap on the valve cover you can see the carbon and black oil just by looking. The big issues is there are no external signs that there is an issue. They do use engine oil but other than that most times it is to late and the carbon does its job on the crank or oil pump.
If this happens and you catch it soon enough you then remove the engine and take off the oil pan, clean then check the oil pump to make sure it is not scored.
The mill came in for the crank support kit and service and alignment. There was another issue with the engine related to the throttle control sticking. It also has a cylinder leaking on the clamp.
It has over 4000 hours on this engine and the mill.

Even though I have seen these engines fail due to crank weakness and head gasket issues. When the engine started it makes you smile.  ;D. It is a very simple engine. Even though it is a Perkins it purrs like a Cat.

You can tell if the 2.2 engine has the new gasket by looking for the rivet one will be on the front of the engine under the thermostat and the other one is on the opposite side in the back. If you can not see the rivet then you have the original gasket. I get the gaskets from Perkins with no issues. The valve cover and the timing cover has o- rings for gaskets and I have always reused them with no issues.
The engine is a 2.2 the 51 hp has no Turbo and the 62 has the turbo. I think some manufactures play with the hp specs for marketing. 

Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2015, 08:38:32 am »
They call them a Perkapillar!
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Online Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 07:24:39 am »
So Marty if I don't see  Carbon on the underside of the oil cap I'm good? Maybe?
I'm Calling Cat today. Thanks for the info.
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2015, 03:38:27 pm »
I don't see any gasket sticking out on mine, so I'm guessing it's the original gasket. I'm going to pull the valve cover and look down the push rod tubes for coking.
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2015, 03:45:59 pm »
Hello,
When this mill came in there were no issues, not using oil, running ok except for the throttle solenoid miss adjustment.
I was kind of thinking. Am I spending this guys money for nothing. I kind of felt better once I saw the gasket.
It did come in for valve adjustment. If you have one of these engines you can remove the valve cover and reuse the rubber gasket. It would cost you nothing but a little time. Turn the engine over to TDC#1 check the first three valves in the front. and the 6th one. Turn the engine 180 and do the rear three and the 5th one. From the back forward.  Clean and reinstall the cover. Pretty straight forward. If you remove the rocker box make DanG you get the push rods in place. I did bend one on the first one. Lesson learned. The other think I do is plug the lifter holes with paper towels to keep the gasket material out. If it falls down in the hole it is hard to get the material out. I don't like sand paper or any type of abrasive around an engine. I just use a gasket scraper and a razor blade. If it is tough you can use gasket remover. This is only in a last resort. I do not like this stuff or my skin does not like it.
The customers first call was the engine was blowing smoke rings at idle. We talked about maintenance of the valves. Then he called and said he found the throttle limit screw bent. He replaced this but did not get it quite right.
I have the engine running and the crank support kit on. I had a hose failure on the turner now I have that to repair. I guess better here than out in the field.
I also need to put a seal kit in the clamp up and down.

Hope this helps.

Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Online Peter Drouin

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2015, 12:55:07 pm »
Marty, Have you had to redo a 26 horse Cat, That WM puts on the edger?
2008 LT40 super, And can cut up to 45' long
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And a license NH soft wood grader.
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2015, 11:35:53 pm »
Hello,
I have not seen any of the other Cat or Perkins engines have any issues. The 62 and the 51 seem to be the issue. I see or hear of 2 or 3 a year. I think they are getting all repaired or buried in the scrap.
I saw one today 51 hp with about 3000 hours. Original head gasket and no crank support.
Marty
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill

Offline logs2lumber

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2015, 08:20:13 am »
This is great information because i am actually looking at a lt40 super with 52 cat engine. I will sure look at the head gasket for sure and when you say crank support what do i need to look at there?  the mill has around 3200 hours on it

Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2015, 08:54:52 am »
The crank support is an external bearing that is mounted on the end of the crankshaft to give it extra support.  Far as I can tell, the drive belt pulling on the end of the shaft can cause uneven wear, and you need that belt to be tight. 
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2015, 09:03:00 am »
I guess you could call a broken crank uneven wear. :D
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2015, 09:19:13 am »
Well it wears unevenly before it breaks!  lol



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Offline logs2lumber

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2015, 12:47:51 pm »
Is the 51 cat with 3100 hrs ok  or is this at point to where it might have troubles? just trying to get some pointers on the engine since the mill i am looking at has it on it

Marty what would the upgrade parts to the crank cost ?

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Cat 51 hp. Headless cat
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2015, 09:10:53 pm »
Hello,
Part number for the 51 hp. 061131. $ 350.00. Crank support kit. New engine is about $8,000. Pretty cheap insurance. IMHO.
M
A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty. -Winston Churchill