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Set-up fee pricing

Started by ScottInCabot, September 05, 2015, 09:07:25 AM

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ScottInCabot

I didn't want to bring the two year old topic back around that I had found in 'search', but I am curious to know what the average is?

I was considering going with $1.25/mile one-way, does this seem 'fair' for a set-up fee?
Gas prices are somewhat lower now then they were a year ago, but that doesn't mean the price will stay there.  And I would adjust when it goes up....  I also understand location and earning potential of said location might have more to do with prices that are set, just wanting to see and get opinions.


Also, does anyone use a 'sheet' that is printed up showing all the prices and fees for milling, breakage of bands, etc....?  Mind sharing?




Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

Gasawyer

I don't have a "sheet" printed just in my head. I get a$1.00 a mile and $20 setup and $10-$20 for any moves. If I have to do any additional labor ( limbing, moving logs,etc.) there is a fee. A limb or two I won't charge but if its the whole pile then yes, same with moving logs. My goal is to help the people and I try to make sure they understand what is expected before I arrive. New customers I am not too strict with but returning customers know what was supposed to be done before hand. Just my two cents. Have a great weekend!
Woodmizer LT-40hdd super hyd.,Lucas 618,Lucas 823dsm,Alaskian chainsaw mill 6',many chainsaws large and small,NH L555 skidsteer, Int. TD-9,JD500 backhoe, and International grapple truck.

WV Sawmiller

SIC,

   I have a set up fee based on distances under 40 miles then go to a mileage fee rate. More often than not I waive the fee for real short trips and real good customers with good wood. Same with moving the mill once I get there. I find often it is easier for me to just move the mill on site a short distance rather than waste times moving the logs etc. Gives me an opportunity to give a bonus to a good customer or charge for a difficult one. My next job is 2.5 miles away and guy has logs at 3 sites. I'll saw at 2 just because of the layout on one is not great. Contractually I could charge every time I move but this is a good customer and good neighbors and worth more to me to keep the good will.

   If someone a mile away hires you to come saw you'd charge $1.25? Wouldn't be worth the collecting. I'd charge a minimum set up fee in this case. Still takes me 15-20 minutes to park and disconnect the mill, drop and level the landings, get out and place the safety equipment and tools (cant hook, fire ex, leaf blower, put a blade on the mill, etc). For longer distances I collect for the mileage.

   The main thing IMO is to be clear to the customer well in advance about charges so there are no surprises to either party.

   My web site includes my pricing. You are welcome to review and use it as works for you. I checked and used a lot of others before I developed my own.

    Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Chuck White

Here is an old thread posted by MagicMan (Lynn), the opening post shows a typical sawing contract!

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,38693.msg557454.html#msg557454

Hope this is what you're looking for.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Tom the Sawyer

Scott,

I started out with a mileage fee for mobile jobs but found that the time it takes to set up was similar no matter how far away, my jobs have ranged from 4 miles to 80 miles one-way.  I keep in mind that I don't charge for an initial site visit but, if I get the job, the mileage fee covers that first visit too. 

I now charge a setup fee and a mileage fee.  The mileage fee is $2 per mile, one-way, from my home to the site.  The setup fee is $50 although it is prorated for larger quantities (>600bf = $40, >700bf = $30,... >1000 = $0).  The cost of USDOT requirements had a big impact on my travel fees.

I do believe in full disclosure of fees and provide them in my brochure - they are also available on my website.  I do have a number of different fees but that allows me to fairly charge for the wide range of circumstances my mobile service encounters. 

My brochure is an 8.5x11", tri-fold, full color, glossy product.  I hand them out at site visits, demos, and other events.  They are available in acrylic holders at restaurants, lumber yards, extensions offices, etc. around the area.  I would be glad to send you one if you would PM me your mailing address.   
07 TK B-20, Custom log arch, 20' trailer w/log loading arch, F350 flatbed dually dump.  Piggy-back forklift.  LS tractor w/FEL, Bobcat S250 w/grapple, Stihl 025C 16", Husky 372XP 24/30" bars, Grizzly 20" planer, Nyle L200M DH kiln.
If you call and my wife says, "He's sawin logs", I ain't snoring.

ScottInCabot

Thanks for the replies so far!


Gasawyer,
I have started writing more and more stuff down to 'remember stuff'.  In my head use to work, but I ain't no spring chicken anymore....and I'd hate to quote a price that sold my services short in my wallet.  I was going to have a 'Labor rate' for dragging logs or cutting limbs also....more or less to indicate I'd rather not do it :D 

WVSaw,
Good point, guess I wasn't thinking about the short range jobs.  I'll fix that before printing anything up.(I like being crystal clear about what the customer can expect from me, and I want him/her to be clear about what I expect from them)

Chuck,
WoodMizer sends that and other things out to their customers.  Was looking for other options as well, but thanks for reminding me that it is there on the CDrom.

Tom,
I wasn't planning on charging anything for the initial visit either.  I would use that time to scale logs, and talk about fees and sawing requirements, and also a total cost due for services.  Whom is printing up your brochures?(I'm needing more business cards soon anyway...maybe your guy is cheaper then mine).


Not seeing any website names/links anywhere....(edit, I found the links)





Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

drobertson

In my view it depends on the logs and type and purpose.  set up fees and over charging, meaning in the view of log owners with no concept of it, just the bottom line for what they need, it can be a tricky charge, I've never went over twenty miles which is a good cup of coffee in the morning and three bucks, so, by the bd/ft pays well,  every area is so different as is customers, so not sure what to say here, there hare wealthy folks that have connections to there timber, while others not so much,  give and take, in my area, just get what works for you at the end of the day or stay home and find another job, just my opinion in the poor hill country with tight folks watching the bottom dollar.
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

juston86

Scott
I'm not far from you down around Sheridan AR  I don't charge for first time visit , and I also don't charge if they have large quantity but I have taken several different contracts and made my own. I charge $50 to move the mill up to 30 miles which is about my county lines then $2.00 a mile one way I have in my contract that mileage is a day on extended jobs but have never charged that. pm me ill be glad to send you my contract to look at thanks juston
mp-32 27 hp kohler fuel injected  20 foot cut power up/down log loader and turner new to sawing plans to mill for myself and friends

ScottInCabot

drobertson,

How do you keep track of the 'wealthy' customer and the 'dirt poor' customer?  And do you carry around two price sheets?  And what happens when the wealthy finds out about the rate you get from the dirt poor....I'd like video of that please.
And I have a real job(so I won't be taking the time to - 'stay home and find another') , I would enjoy being able to transition from the 40hr a week grind, into working for myself at some point - soon.  I don't want to become the guy that does stuff too cheap so now everyone expects to be cheaper.

juston86,

Thanks, and welcome aboard the forums(seen it was your first post).  Confused by the 'charge is in the contract but you never charge that' part.....




Thanks again everyone....the more ideas the better!


Scott in Cabot
Timber framing RULES!

Ianab

It's easier to give a discount or waive a fee than it is to try and tack an extra charge on.

If a job is local, or the site well set up, or a large enough job, or the client is a nice guy, you can always tack a "discount for cash" on the bottom of the invoice.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Bandmill Bandit

i think I have tried about every way to deal with this and have found that the one day minimum sawing charge paid as a deposit befor I hook the mill to the truck is working the best.

No printed sheets to worry about and no 2 tier pricing to worry about.

My rate this year is $100 an hour and I will go to a BF rate in good quality timber and a reasonable volume of good logs that will take me a few days to saw. BUT I  don't quote a BF rate till I am set up and sawing so I KNOW what production rates I am getting AND the quality of the help. Quite often I offer the BF rate AFTER the job is complete and I know the discount against hourly rate will be inside of 10 ish % of the calculated hourly rate that would be due. Works real well for me and is a motivator for the client to provide good help and still Keeps me priced slightly under most of the good competition of which there is very little in my area. 

My one day deposit is $800. That is the moving time, set up time and saw out the balance of an 8 hour day from the time I left the yard. If the weather is good and the sun is still shinning I often go 10 to 12 hours in the summer time up here. clock starts ticking when the first 8 hours are burned up. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

juston86

Quote from: ScottInCabot on September 05, 2015, 06:09:36 PM
drobertson,

How do you keep track of the 'wealthy' customer and the 'dirt poor' customer?  And do you carry around two price sheets?  And what happens when the wealthy finds out about the rate you get from the dirt poor....I'd like video of that please.
And I have a real job(so I won't be taking the time to - 'stay home and find another') , I would enjoy being able to transition from the 40hr a week grind, into working for myself at some point - soon.  I don't want to become the guy that does stuff too cheap so now everyone expects to be cheaper.

juston86,

Thanks, and welcome aboard the forums(seen it was your first post).  Confused by the 'charge is in the contract but you never charge that' part.....




Thanks again everyone....the more ideas the better!


Scott in Cabot


This is part of my contract
"Customer will be charged a minimum fee of $50 for transportation and setup. Does not apply at my site.
In addition, customers over 30 miles from Grapevine AR mill site will be charged $2.00 per mile traveled, one way, each day of the job." 
But I have never charged the mileage for more than one day, most jobs are close to my home or my "real work" about 30miles from home so I have never add that to the bill
Im a fireman in a larger town and do some sawing there if the customer will let me do it on my day I work  we work 24 on 48 off that morning that I get off I don't have to "waste" gas as I'm there close by anyway
mp-32 27 hp kohler fuel injected  20 foot cut power up/down log loader and turner new to sawing plans to mill for myself and friends

4x4American

Currently my setup fee is $40 plus $0.50/mile round trip.  It covers fuel expenses but not much more I am thinking that I need to up it a little bit.  So far the farthest job was ~130miles.  On the far ones if it takes more than a day I camp out.  I don't have them sign a contract.  I tell them over the phone how I charge, then I get there and hand them a printed piece of paper that explains how I charge.  Haven't had any problems yet (knock on wood)...


I try to be fair, and will give discounts where I see fit, but I don't saw to break even.  If they can't pay then I don't play. 
Boy, back in my day..

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